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PTP
 PTP
(@CaptainPP)
Posts: 2684
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Topic starter
 
[#21356]

Better to remain quiet and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove any doubt

BUT...

In the reporting of the A cat worlds, Rick wrote this:

The wind was slowly dying and took a slight shift to the west, or the left side of the course looking upwind. Pease Glaser took advantage of the left shift by going left

I understand that if, at the start, there is a left shift then port tack becomes favored. However, why is it a good idea to go left when there is a left shift? I can understand why you would go left if there is more pressure on the left side of the course, but this confuses me a little. I think I understand a

favored

side of the course, but I get confused with what is a good idea with shifts. Seems that if you are on the left side of the course and you get a left shift then you are better off than those on the right side of the course, but I could be wrong.

I have no pride, that is why I want to figure it out and am asking <img src=

alt=

/>

I had a similar problem with reading the AC reports a while ago until I figured out something.


 
Posted : November 14, 2007 5:00 pm
scooby_simon
(@simonJlongstaff)
Posts: 3496
Captain Registered
 

because if the wind is going left (and it is going to stay left once it stops going left) best bet is to go with it as you get left in what remains of the wind before it settles on the new heading. Very difficult to expalin but I'll try

Start windward mark is dead upwind.

Wind starts going left and so those on STB are being headed; sounds like it is time to tack; YES it may be but only if you KNOW you WILL be able to lay the windward mark on ONE (lifting) tack on PORT.

If you cannot lay the mark, you keep sailing on the heading tack until you can lay the mark. But you are sailing on a tack that is currently LESS headed than it will be one the wind stops going left (and those sailing off on port have to tack back). This situation LOOKS bad to start with as you sail the header, BUT you sail a progressivly worse header and so it will be BETTER when you do tack. The boats who tack onto PORT (onto a progressivly better lift) will have to sail the WHOLE of the other tack on the new headed tack(assuming the left move of the wind has finished by the time they tack).

THIS ONLY WORKS WHEN YOU CANNOT LAY THE WINDWARD MARK BEFORE THE SHIFT STOPS, AND THAT YOU SPEND ENOUGH TIME ON PORT AFTER YOU TACK TO MAKE THE TIME BACK YOU SPEND PLUGGING THE HEADER TO START WITH. So it works best on long courses with a short period for the wind to go left (or right).

In an ideal world, you want to tack just as the header arrives (on the old tack) you you get into the new tack with the best angle, the

gradual shift one way, that will stay one way

sitiuation is the only time the above works - and it takes balls to do it because it looks wrong. Tacking on each shift only works when the wind goes left/right/left/right.


 
Posted : November 14, 2007 7:58 pm
Jake Kohl
(@jake)
Posts: 11744
Three Star Admiral Registered
 
Quote

Better to remain quiet and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove any doubt

BUT...

In the reporting of the A cat worlds, Rick wrote this:

The wind was slowly dying and took a slight shift to the west, or the left side of the course looking upwind. Pease Glaser took advantage of the left shift by going left

I understand that if, at the start, there is a left shift then port tack becomes favored. However, why is it a good idea to go left when there is a left shift? I can understand why you would go left if there is more pressure on the left side of the course, but this confuses me a little. I think I understand a

favored

side of the course, but I get confused with what is a good idea with shifts. Seems that if you are on the left side of the course and you get a left shift then you are better off than those on the right side of the course, but I could be wrong.

I have no pride, that is why I want to figure it out and am asking <img src=

alt=

/>

I had a similar problem with reading the AC reports a while ago until I figured out something.

After the Tybee 500 this year, I realized that my biggest strength was no more and had turned into my biggest weakness. I got too proud to ask questions and people were getting better then me at a faster rate. I quickly broke that habit and vowed to never do that again.

As for what a windshift does to you on the course: Do this: hold your hands out in front of you as if they were both catamarans headed upwind. Point both hands straight up and imagine that they are both on starboard tack. Now, turn your hands 90 degrees to the left as if the wind just shifted 90 degrees. Before the shift, the boats were even. After the shift, the right-most boat is directly behind the left-most boat. This why corners are risky...you'll be a hero or zero if you get a consistent shift.

Now put your hands at a 45 degree angle as if they are on port heading to an upwind mark in the middle. Again, do a left shift and watch as the left most boat is now pointed right at the mark and the right-most boat still has another tack to throw in. A left shift means the left-most boats have a shorter distance to sail.

It's simple trigonometry to think about a static shift ... i.e. favored tack. You start getting into differential calculus when you start figuring out what happens as a function of who's further out to one side.

If you have a good hunch that a big shift is coming, get to that side and stay there. Sometimes a local forecast can be accurate enough to expect to see a gradual shift one way or the other as the day goes on. That usually means you want to consider that side if in a pinch...or at least lean a little that way throughout the period the shift should hit.


 
Posted : November 14, 2007 8:25 pm
PTP
 PTP
(@CaptainPP)
Posts: 2684
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Topic starter
 

Thanks,
It makes sense. At the most basic, I can think of it that the boats that are on the left side of the course at the time of the shift are further upwind now and have a shorter distance to sail.


 
Posted : November 14, 2007 8:40 pm
(@Anonymous 39155)
Posts: 3112
 

Decades ago I was told,

sail the headed tack first

. Supposedly, there is trigonometric proof, if you're good in math.


 
Posted : November 14, 2007 8:42 pm
PTP
 PTP
(@CaptainPP)
Posts: 2684
Captain Registered
Topic starter
 

this stuff is complicated. some say to take on a header, but I guess that is relative to where you are on the course, etc etc and sometimes isn't true.


 
Posted : November 14, 2007 8:44 pm
Jake Kohl
(@jake)
Posts: 11744
Three Star Admiral Registered
 
Quote
Decades ago I was told,

sail the headed tack first

. Supposedly, there is trigonometric proof, if you're good in math.

Speaking of questions...I would like someone to answer that one for me too. I've heard that before as well but it doesn't make sense unless you expect an oscillation to come back pretty soon...or maybe it's easier to get into phase with the oscillations if you purposely take the headed tack first holding out for the lift and tack on the next header?


 
Posted : November 14, 2007 9:10 pm
(@brucat)
Posts: 3939
Member
 

Isn't that covered in Rick's book? It applies more to persistent shifts (that are consistent across the course), as I understand it. You will sail a shorter time on the header and maximize the lift on the way to the mark. If you sail the lift first, you have to go a very long distance or you will get headed away from the mark after you tack for it.

As mentioned, if the shifts are oscillating, you tack on each header.

Hope this helps/ makes sense... <img src=

alt=

/>

Mike


 
Posted : November 14, 2007 10:26 pm
(@isotope42)
Posts: 807
Member
 

I break it down into 3 different wind situations:

1) There's more wind in one place than another (or current, or some other situation that makes a particular location favorable). In this case, go where the wind is (or whatever else makes it better).

2) Winds are oscillating (swinging back and forth around a steady average direction). In this case, sail the lifted tack (or headed gybe). Tack (or gybe) when the wind passes through the average bearing. This enables one to sail the shortest course to the mark.

3) Winds are taking a persistent shift (the average wind direction is changing). When this happens, sail the headed tack (or lifted gybe) first. This way, one takes the penalty early when it is smaller, and takes the gain later when it is larger.

When you can't tell what the wind conditions are, go with #2.

The vast majority of my racing is under condition #1, which is common on small inland lakes with weather-system wind. The sailors who are best at reading the puffs and the changes generally come out in the lead. A lot of people call this

connect-the-dots

racing (especially if the puffs are cloud-generated).

Regards,
Eric


 
Posted : November 15, 2007 9:09 am
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