Rather than continue to post on the Tradewinds thread and give the impression that I was somehow dissatisfied with the race management in Largo, I thought I'd start a new thread, since it seems to me there are some interesting points made that just needed the proper context for some fruitful discussion.
I like the way Mary thinks. Rick and I have had talks about the angle and length of the reach on a triangle course specifically with regard to the Wave fleet, but much of what I have learned is applicable to all beach cats.
My thoughts on a reaching course have evolved over the years as I have raced under a wide variety of race officers, on many different catamarans with different skippers, and further by taking classes and doing a lot of reading on race management and working directly for some of the PROs generally regarded as the cream of the crop.
I prefer an 85 to 105 degree (depending on the type of boats) short reach at the top of the course. I feel that the reach has been somewhat neglected in the past few years, and the comments in the Tradewinds thread (like "I sucked on the reach" and "I need to practice the reach more") confirm my feeling, and Mary's statement, that there ARE tactics on the reach. It is a tool you'd better have in your box. I don't disagree that the reach is a parade if skippers of equal skill get there together, but that can be said about any leg of the course.
My feeling is that a short (1/3 to 1/2 the A-C leg length), hot reach at the top means there is an opportunity for reaching tactics without eliminating the downwind tactics on the first run - you can't lay C (or the gate) from B, so there are still gybes involved.
In Portsmouth racing, like for the Area Elimination events, the reaching leg length must be carefully considered - it is generally accepted that most boats, no matter the length or sail area, have nearly equal boatspeed on a beam reach. During that leg, boats with high Portsmouth numbers are theoretically gaining time on the lower-rated boats throughout the reach. Setting too long a reach will unbalance the handicap. Set too short a reach and you need to decide if anything is gained by having the extra mark at all.
You can expect to see reaching again at the Area D event in November - it worked well last year and I had many more positive comments than negative. The people that expressed frantic concern that they could not correct out on the smaller boats due to the reach were mollified once the first results were posted, showing that careful course management enhances the fun, emphasizes boat handling on all points of sail, and maintains balance within the current handicap system. Fast skippers win, not fast boats. 
*ching* $0.02
John:
I use to love the reaching leg. One of my fondest memories was when in C fleet early in my sailing in the early 80's on Hobie 16. My A fleet crew that I bought the boat from after rounding A mark in a hot 40 boat race said "MAN!!!! you are making this boat HUM!!!!!". We were hauling butt with the bows just a few inches above the water (right on the verge of pitchpole)and pumping the sails constantly. It was a HOOT. Reaching is fun in a race, and after all. Most sailors who start out just reach out and back anyway, Right?
Doug
I use to love the reaching leg. One of my fondest memories was when in C fleet early in my sailing in the early 80's on Hobie 16. My A fleet crew that I bought the boat from after rounding A mark in a hot 40 boat race said "MAN!!!! you are making this boat HUM!!!!!". We were hauling butt with the bows just a few inches above the water (right on the verge of pitchpole)and pumping the sails constantly. It was a HOOT. Reaching is fun in a race, and after all. Most sailors who start out just reach out and back anyway, Right?
Doug
Wow. That was deja vu, almost like I''ve read that somewhere before . Nothing like a screaming reach to get the blood pumping.
Here is my take on the reach.
I agree it's not very tactical. However, it does require a lot of know how with a chute boat. You have to understand how to run a chute hot and fast on a hot reach.
I personally wouldn't put a reach in a course unless there was a need as Rick and Mary pointed out for their race. I would always put an offset mark at least 80-100 yrds from the A mark. This really is a little bit of a reach. Offset marks are really important for Spinnaker beachcats. Without the offset you are setting up a possible disaster at A mark with boats coming in on starboard at the same angle boats are coming downwind from the mark on port. I believe that we should in general try to emulate what the Olympic Tornado's run in their Nationals. Notice I did not say the Olympics because they may do some funky courses for TV or something that has nothing to do with sailing.
The reach should be set close to 90 degrees to the true wind direction. 1/3 to 1/2 A-C is way to long for a reach. At 1/2 It's almost a straight run to C if the wind is up. You may have to short Jibe it but probably not. I would say more like 1/4 to 1/3 A-C with preferably 1/4. Remember that we don't live with a perfect wind direction and even at 1/4 this could still easily become a parade to C with a hot Spinnaker reach. While it has an equal chance of turning the other way by keeping the reach shorter you ensure a better downwind course.
I'm also a believer in Gates at the leeward end. It makes the racing much more tactical and creates passing lanes for boats. Gates should be a MINIMUM of 4 boat lengths apart. By being 4 or more boat lengths apart it keeps the confusion lower for boats screaming in with chutes up.
Mike Hill
www.stlouiscats.com
*ching* $0.02
I'm not a fan of the reach leg and given a choice I'd opt to not reach. But, it's not going to ruin my regatta if I have to sail one all weekend.
I disagree with this point though "I don't disagree that the reach is a parade if skippers of equal skill get there together, but that can be said about any leg of the course."
It is much easier to pin the fleet on a reach than on an upwind or downwind. You can only go one dirction on a reach, either straight to 'B' or straight to 'C'. If the sailors are of equal ability they aren't going to pass and will have to wait for the upwind and downwind legs. This is why it's considered a parade by most, me included.
Since I've begun sailing spinnaker boats, I rarely find myself reaching - even if out for fun. Usually it's only at distance events (which I haven't done many of lately) that I do any reaching for any length of time. I can say that we seemed to do pretty well on the reach early coming out of A mark and did take several positions that way...but I was also pushing the boat harder than I have in a long time while reaching and John and I seemed to get setup rather quickly for it. Part of my pushing harder is because I had good confidence in quick reaction by the crew and another part is due to recently sailing on a skiff just a week prior. The catamaran never felt so stable and reasonably powered before!
As it relates to racing around the course, I'm not opposed to the reaching leg but I do think it would be boring if it were a spin run straight shot to B and a spin run straight shot to C without any jibing. We had an event like this in S.C. this year where the RC thought that is what catamarans prefered...EVERY lap had B mark in it that was in halfway to C and a straight spin run to and from each mark (except the time that they didn't drop C mark until we were 150 yards past B!).
However, I thought the course that was setup at Tradewinds was reasonable because the angle to B mark was usually on the edge of being able to carry a chute and it seemed to be in a bit of a hole so we could definitely set our chutes as we got nearer...who sets first? Can they hold it? Can we hold it? It can be tactical if set properly. The run to C mark from there was not a straight shot either leaving a little bit of work to do on the approach to C - though certainly didn't have as many variables as a course without a B altogether. I think if anything, the reach to B mark could have been about 25% closer to A leaving more dualing down to C but I was fine with what we had. If nothing else, I really agree with having some sort of offset in a mixed fleet. Even at events with only 25 boats it can be pretty scary without the offset compounded with some sailors that aren't accustom to being out there with spinnaker boats.
From the dead boat, or no spi, or sloop rig perspective.
These comments are not from novice non-spin boat sailors. As Doug said a newbie knows how to reach better than any other point of sail at this point in their development, especially when compared to down wind sailing fast. What may be boring to the accomplished sailor can be incentive for a newcomber, if during one race, for one lap, they at least had the leaders in site.
Heck,
I'd consider myself somewhat experienced, by no means a newbie to sailing or racing, but I loved the reach. It was "different" and it was FUN. WE WENT FAST AND WATER WAS FLYING EVERYWHERE.
FUN
Guys:
As I said. NOTHING beats a screaming reach in a blow. Right on the edge of the cliff of pitchpole. One wrong move can be disaster. 
As I just have a reacher on my boat, I don't know much about spinnaker. 
But they way the wind blows at Texas City Dike www.tcdyc.com, we get in a LOT of fast reaches.
Doug
Hi John,
Yes I totally agree on a reaching leg, but one that is 1/2 the distance of the a-c leg..It is definitely another skill set, especially in a blow. Not sure if we should make the course so that you can use spinakers on that leg though..In portsmouth racing that might give the edge to spin boats...
We are running short reaching legs on our courses now, and the feedback has been for the most part very positive..
Dave
Racing is all about “testing” the sailors skills, (against the ability of other sailers) on all points of sail, and as such, regardless of whether any leg is “boring” or not, the beat, the shy reach, the broad reach, and the run are all fundamental to being able to navigate “as fast as possible” on ALL points of sail, and really, if any one of those legs are not incorporated in a race then the “test” of a sailers skills is not truly comprehensive. Sailors talk about the “thrill of the speed” of a shy reach, and that it can become a “soldier’s” leg, which to some degree can happen, but, the critical parts of the “shy” is how you prepare going into it as well as how you exit it as to whether you will gain or loose places against other boats on that leg. As previously stated, with boat speed being so similar on a shy it is difficult to pass other boats, But I don’t think that the tactics of a shy reach is so much about passing other boats but more so about not being passed, IE if you sail correctly on a shy you SHOULD hold your position BUT if you make the slightest error then you can be passed by several boats in the blink of an eye. Don’t tell me that that doesn’t place pressure on your sailing skills and affect your “tactics” on this “boring” leg. The broad reach is a leg that requires enormous concentration to sail well. There are the choices of whether to sail it high for boat speed and jibe down to the mark, whether to sail low and reach up higher with speed at the bottom to the mark or whether to just point the boat at the mark and hope for the best. Perhaps it is because a sailer has to really “think” and think hard for the full duration of these legs to be able to sail them well that they have fallen out of favour in recent years, or am I alone in wanting to “test” my sailing ability on all points and conditions?
Darryl,
I like your thinking!
I don't agree with
If you limit the boat to new 18 and 20 ft Formula boats, it will be close. If you consider all catamarans, there will be a wide range of abilities. For example watch a single trap Tornado against an I20 in 18-22 or a A-Class against an H20.
There is anouther use for reaches you may not have seen. When you are racing Waves and 14's against dinghies in a combined Portsmouth, it equalizes things in lighter air. Once the catamarans start flying a hull it will just increase their advantage.
I miss reaches.
I enjoy the occasional reach, and happily sail Olympic or Gold-Cup style courses, but I usually try to discourage Triangle courses. The reason is pretty simple. I think choosing the best course side (or middle) is a major strategic part of sailboat racing, both upwind and down. A triangle course takes away that choice and the downwind race becomes solely tactical.
Imagine the race as taking place in diamond-shaped area. The windward and leeward marks are two of the verticies, and the other two are at the corners formed by the laylines. From a race officer's perspective, this is the racing area, regardless of how big the body of water may be. If the race committee sets a windward/leeward course true to the wind, this shape approaches a square (for boats that tack/gybe through 90 degrees) and provides the maximum racing area for the boats. If the wind shifts, this area rapidly decreases, yielding a less strategic / more tactical race with more opportunity for fouls and damage. A shift of 45 degrees yields a straight-line race. This effect is even more pronounced with boats that can tack or gybe inside of 90 degrees.
A triangle course suffers a similar problem. Because it forces all the sailors to the same course, all the remaining racing area goes unused. Again, this yields a more crowded race with greater opportunity for fouls and collisions. In fleets with evenly matched boatspeed, it often becomes the dreaded "boat parade".
Now, I usually sail a non-spinnaker cat, so we always reach downwind whether or not there is an offical reach leg. Without the official leg, though, skippers get to choose where to do the reaching. That gives the race an additional dimension.
Regards,
Eric
I can't imagine anybody using just a triangle course for buoys racing. I think it used be on the Hobie course list, but if they used it, I'm sure it was very infrequently.
I've run across several race officers (that are used to monohull racing) who think catamaran sailors want triangle courses because they like to reach.
Triangles aside, if you set a reach leg on an otherwise windward/leeward course (that is, disregarding parallelogram or trapezoidal courses), realize that you might be reducing the sailing area (and reducing the strategic component of racing).
Regards,
Eric
it seems to me that in an old triangle course the only real downwind leg with tactics involving choosing a side of the course comes only if they ad a windward leeward to the triangle.
the triangle alone has a beat, a reach(maybe beamreach), and a very broad reach or a run that is mostly all on 1 tack(so tactics are less invoved). so a triangle/ windward-leeward gives all the points of sail. a good thing for variety, but there is less chance to move up in the fleet than 2 windward-leewards in a row as a heat.
i like the idea of some triangle heats, but not all heats that way.
you could have bouys that you have to gybe around on the downwind as kind of a slalom section to ad excitement and gybing ability to the mix. it's more work to set all those bouys tho.