Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23

The plus side for taking families sailing is that the passengers on a cat are between the hulls, as opposed to being outside the hulls on a tri. this gives a safer feel to being on a tramp cat.
the downside of a cat is that it can fall over!

I don't think having 8 people on either boat is safe, 3 or 4 max.

The R21 is a 1000 lb boat with a 31' mast, it'll see speeds in the high teens with 2 or 3 aboard in winds above 20 kts. You can take 4 to 6 people out in light air safely, if you take out large numbers of folk on either boat in bigger winds you risk breaking the boat. The 23 is larger and lighter, better top speed, subject to the same caution about big loads in high winds. The Reynolds has more below deck storage, more of a cruiser than the Stiletto. Either craft powered up will require skill to maintain control, both will require caution on a big lake when the wind is up. Both are nice boats.

Dave

Thanks Davefarmer!
That is what i was looking for, well since my budget is very less then what i would like i came across this reynolds, for 5 k at most time i might have 4 people.. i was looking at a Hobie sport/w wings but this hobie is like 40 miles from me compared to 757 miles to the reynolds! Or do i keep waiting for something else to pop up.. But i feel i am past waiting, OHhh i don thinking ill be going out in anyting higher then 15 knts for a while! in any of these boats untill I am sure of things

Traveling a long ways is sometimes something you just have to do. A guy drove 800 miles to buy my Hobie 18, and I was just about to pull the trigger on driving that far for a mystere when it sold.

You are so right i have a Hobie 18 magnum with wings that i found, I just dont know what to get. I know there is no storage on the 18 but i like to own rare things. I am told and i see that the magnums are slim to find. But i know also that the R21 is rare to only 50 made in the us

The travel to get a boat is just part of the cost of a boat that fits your needs, if you aren't willing to wait indefinitely for something closer. I'm in WA, and Flight Risk came from SF, as did the A cat. The HT and the ARC came from FL. The Reynolds came from Portland, and the Stealth and the 18 square came from SoCal. In half the cases I found catsailors I could bribe to drag the boats my direction.
The 18 Magnum and the H21 are comfortable beachcats for 2 plus sailors, but the performance diminishes significantly with higher crew loads. The R21 is a much bigger boat with much greater freeboard, and a greater ability to carry loads, within above mentioned limits. All are well made boats that are fun to sail.
Should you end up with the R21, I can connect you with Chris Park who bought mine, and has it nicely tricked out.

Dave

Very cool Dave thanks i think i am looking moving towards the r21 Like i said i came from mono life so 6-10 knot of boats speed was always the goal and it was a picture moment on the instrument panel if we reached it. So an easy 6 and above knots would be awesome for me! thanks

Are you planning to leave these boats rigged on the water? Do you really ALWAYS plan to have more than 3 people? I am thinking that an Hobie 18 would be far easier to launch and rig meaning you will sail it more and divide trips for that many people up instead of several big trips. I like the idea of the 21 or 27 but rigging them sounds like a PITA and I know that would push me to not launch it for those shorter days.

If it makes a difference, a version of the Reynold's 21 is in production as the Z21.

http://www.wingzsailboats.com/z21cruisingcatamaran.htm

This means there will be some level of parts support.

I don't know the status of the company. There are questions about them being in buisness.

I've owned both, sold the Reynolds a year and a half ago to buy a Stiletto. The question about keeping the boat in a mast up storage area or apart on a trailer is one you need to give a lot of thought to. Putting either of these together is not a quick, trivial thing. If I had to put either one together for a day sail, I'd look for something else.
The Reynolds is a tank compared to the Stiletto, but depending on the winds in your area a tank might be what you need. If you need interior space, the Reynolds is the way to go. You could sleep 2 in the hulls if you had to, there's no way you could spend more than 5 minutes in the Stiletto hulls. I wouldn't put 8 people on either unless you had a light wind day.
For a first catamaran you might be better off with the Reynolds. It's a much tamer boat with a Portsmouth rating of 84 if my memory's correct, compared to 59 on the Stiletto (with spin and light crew).
Keep in mind that both of these are older boats and due to their size anything you might need to replace will cost more. Make sure the trampoline is in good shape.

Out of curiosity, are you looking at the Reynolds for sale in GA? If so, that's my old boat and it's in great shape. 23s can be hard to come by, it took me a while to find mine. Found it through someone on this site.

If you want more information on the Stiletto, you can go to www.stiletto.wildjibe.com/forum Someone might even have one for sale there.

MATT Z YES i am going down to get it! I dont mind the setup I just didnt want to sail slow! Can you tell me anything about this boat, i am in contact to with Randy Reynolds! Rigging the boat is all part of daysailing! I will get a Hobie one day! Right now i want something that i can take a view people out on! What about raising the mast is there a easy way in doing this? What about reefing or taken down the main sail i see this is boom less! thanks.

Because the boat is 12' wide, it has to be collapsed to trailer. Therefor, it takes 1.5 to 2 hrs with a couple of experienced guys to assemble or disassemble it. A big part of that is tightening the tramp. With a well designed gin pole, mast raising and dropping is easy and safe. Mine could be done on the water.

Dave

Ok well this will be my learning boat i guess. I am fine with it, i have talked to a few hobies guys and some told me they have seen people take 1hr with there hobies rigging it and stuff, so i know after i know what i am doing it should go a little faster! <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" /> if not then the wife will hate it! <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

Another question i have ,since this is my first purchase of any kind of boat. what do i need to transport this boat. To pull it home if i get pulled over, is there some temp registration papers i need, tag stuff? any help is greatly appreciated!
thanks

Soul, I don't know about the trailer laws between GA and where you're going. I do know that when the gent bought it from me he towed it from NC to GA without plates or trailer lights. Not sure how that would fly in your neck of the woods.
That boat sat unused at a sailing club for a long time, maybe 15 years. It had a tree growing between the hulls, I had to take it apart to move it. I needed a project and had my eye on the boat for a few years. There were 2 of them there and as it turned out they would not sell one, only both. That worked out since between the 2 I got one usable boat.
Raising the mast on this boat is a bear, there is no gin pole. One could be rigged pretty easily if you look into how they work or find someone nearby that's familiar with them.

If your wife likes quick set up, she's going to hate this boat. I'd plan on it taking a day and a half the first time. Honestly, if you don't have a sailing club near you where you can keep the boat assembled I think you're making a mistake. Comparing putting this together to raising the mast on a hobie is comparing apples and oranges. When on a trailer this boat is completely disassembled. That is a lot of trampoline to lace. I think the best you can hope for is a 3 hour assembly time after getting some practice. After those 3 hours you'll be too tired to go sailing.

WOW really, so now you are talking me out of this boat! so How does it sail, is it a good boat to sail the rigging might be a tuff, but if i keep it assembled.. hmmm now i am thinking

My hobie 18 took more like 20min to rig. I agree rigging is not something you want to spend at least 2 hours on everytrip.

well unless its winter i wanted something high off the water something to take home, not leave with marina, but i could leave it rigged somewhere!

If you can leave it rigged you'll get a lot more use out of it. The boat sails fine, no problems there. I saw that the guy that bought it came in 2nd in his class in the Buzzelli Regatta last year.
It's certainly high off the water, you'll stay dry most of the time.

Well i am waiting for him to reply back to me, but its to bad it isnt a little bigger.. But i am thinking why do youhave to take the nets all the way off of this boat? when u have to move it to another location i dont understand that? I think i could figure something out to leave the nets on it! SO the boat is pretty fast then your saying, how long did you have this boat and when did it sit on trailor? I am wondering its a 1980 i hope there isnt and soft spots in the fiberglass!

It's too wide for trailering.

The Reynolds at the Buzzelli raced in the High Portsmouth class on the small boat course, not with the Stiletto's.

Don't know if you've seen this or not but there is a Stiletto 23 and a Reynolds 21 for sale here:

Yes i ahve already been all over that site that is the Reynolds i am looking at. Well the boat once on the trailor comes together so that is why i am saying maybe the net doesnt have to come off all the way!

I have a Reynolds 33, and lacing the tramp is 45 mins of the 2 hour assembly process.

No it can not be transported without removing the tramp.

Unless you have a place where you can store and ramp launch it fully rigged, you'll get tired of the process very quickly and loose interest in sailing the boat.

I tear mine down and travel with it several times a year, so I know what I'm talking about.

-Mike

wonder if i can put wings on this R21? that would be cool very cool! SO tell me about this net thing, its bothering me, there has to be away like is it the pow and stern that the net goes through loops or something? i was thinking if the stern and bow poles come off then you can squeeze the hulls together on the trailor with net still connected. I havent seen this boat yet so i am thinking about it, AND how easy is the mast to go up?

thanks

The tramp can stay mostly on the R21 for trailering, but all 3 beams are unbolted and removed when collapsing. So the front of the tramp is disengaged from the front beam( it's a bolt rope into a groove), and the rear is loosened and unhooked from the rear beam. The bitch is that the side lacing(1 side) needs to be substantially loosened as well to get the hulls far enough apart when reassembling to get the beam bolts started. So you don't have to completely thread the lacing, but you do have to fully tension both the side and rear lacing when the boat is put together. And this consumes over 45 minutes with 2 guys.
Realistically, if you can't find a place to at least keep the boat fully assembled on it's trailer, near water, neither the R21 or the S23 is gonna get sailed very often. They're just too much set up and tear down time for day sailing. It'll get old very fast. Again, with a buddy who knew the drill, the fastest we could get the Reynolds assembled from driving to the ramp, to sailing away, was 2 hrs. And we had quite a bit of practice.

Dave

There's a R21 in the classifieds here that is from Minnesota. I'm about positive I know that boat. I haven't been on it, but its my ex-girlfriends-sister's-boyfriends-parents boat.....

I've never been on it or seen it up close, I've seen it on the water from a distance and that's about it. Its a 507 area code, and I can't imagine there's two of em' in a rural area code. If you need me to go look at it I can if you set it up. I'm about 20 minutes away from it.