Safety and the Full Harness

Good question.

I too wear my full harness under my life jacket. Oddly enough, my worst fear in regards to cat sailing is getting tangled and/or trapped in the lines during a capsize, and until you posted this, I had not thought of wearing my life jacket under the harness.

It makes complete sense. The fastener for the harness is resting under your life jacket. If in trouble, you'd either have to remove the jacket then release the harness buckle, or try to wiggle your way off the trapezze line...which might not be at all possible either.

The reason I wear my life jacket on top of my harnesss is to get a better fit. The shoulder straps on my harness seem to slide off my shoulders no matter how I adjust it.

This brings up another question. Are there harnesses made specifically for women? I've not seen any.

Tracie

What would be nice (be it for man or woman) is a lifejacket that's built into a harness or the other way around. (Murray's, Gul, ... you listening?).

I wear my harness over my lifejacket because it makes it easier to reach the hook with the trap bone and it doesn't push the lifejacket up.

I wear the Murray's sit Racing harness, with a spreader bar, and no other keeper for the dogbone/trap line. It's also crotchless. It has the vertical batten-like strips paralleling your spine. It is soooo comfortable. It would be easy to get off in an emergency.

I have let many borrow it thatr have the full harness and they can;t believe how comfortable it is. I've been on the wire for hours at a time, no problem. IMHO, full harnesses are not more comfortable, are bulky, too hot in warm weather, etc.

I guess I've always thought it would be easier to cut the trap line if it was stuck on my harness hook. The lower part of my traps going to the dogbones are line, not wire, as I suspect most are. For the range of motion needed to get out of most harnesses (over or under the vest) I've also thought through cutting the webbing on the harness to release the buckle. I keep my safety knife mounted to my vest where I can get it one-handed with either hand.

Of course, probably the real danger of the harness is that the hook can get inadvertantly caught on anything when you capsize, not necessarily being hooked in to the traps.

My brush with this was a pitchpole in which a sheet wrapped my ankle. I easily unwrapped it but it was enough to make me think about it!

In the recent Sportscar magazine (SCCA monthly rag), there's an article that talks about being mentally prepared for what happens and what to do during and after an accident. Once things begin to go wrong, your actions may make a difference between life and death. Thinking through these situations and what you might do in response to them before hand may help you make the right decisions with less panicking if doo-doo does happen. Perhaps this a good lesson for sailors too.

I too like the idea of a combined vest and harness. Except that if you do need to get out of your harness, you'd lose your flotation as well. It would need a way to release the buckle/hook without compromising the function of the vest.

Tracie

I used to have that problem now I put on my full harness (don't hook up the front straps)and then put on my life jacket(put the life jacket under the front harness straps)and hook up and tighten the front harness straps. Wearing it this way the harness straps don't fall off your sholders and the life jacket does not ride up around your neck and you can see to hook up on the wire better. If you don't understand this I will show you next time I see you.

David Lennard

I wear my harness over my vest and a camelbak over the lot. On the camelbak I keep my strobe, knife and gps. I have found that if I need to get free all I have to do is bend forward and the hook collapses into my body and I float back up to the surface. To unhook in a weird position all I have to do is relax and straighten out. Once clear Ijust place my hand over the hook and I can swim clear.

I crashed my boat hard once breaking a few ribs. The post mortem done by my doctor said that I probably would have had more serious injuries had my gear not absorbed most of the punishment. The vest is trashed and now hangs on the wall as a reminder.

In short the most important thing to remember when everything starts to go wrong is to RELAX AND THINK -- Panic kills.

Steve

Prior to taking up sailing, the majority of my "on-water" time was in a kayak. A common piece of equipment carried by paddlers is the rescue knife. The blade is designed to quickly cut one's way out of an entanglement (including the boat itself). I always carry one in the front pocket of my PFD, attached by a tether (I'd hate to drop it in a time of need).

The other carry-over from kayaking is the PFD that I use. In recent years, paddlers' PFD's have evolved into models that keep the flotation high on the chest, unlike the older, longer waisted models. (A kayaker needs a PFD that rides well above the sprayskirt.)

The new designs also include much larger arm holes for superior arm mobility.

While I only wear a half harness, I find that the Lotus Designs Sherman vest that I wear does not interfere with the spreader, is very comfortable, and does not appear to pose any safety issues. (If one does rear its head, I've got the knife!)

Cheers,

Keith,

I have always understood that a majority of the trapeze hook getting lodged in something problem is related TO the bouyancy in the life vest making it difficult to unhook when under the water. No while I certainly wouldn't want to be out in the ocean with out a vest, I think that once I got unhooked and got some air, I could find a way to get the vest back on. Not sure the coast guard would feel the same way though!

Jake,

After countless hours if leading/observing groups of paddlers on the ocean, I've seen a few mishaps unfold (all with happy endings ). Experience has shown that once things begin to go wrong, it has a tendency to snowball. With the kayak, I've always taught, "NEVER let go of the boat" and "NEVER take off the PFD." The way that things seem to go wrong, I would not want to take the risk of having the boat and/or the PFD blow out of reach. (I never allow participants in my groups to even paddle with the PFD unzipped.)

The other advantage to the kayak style of lifevests is that the flotation is lower down. It lifts your body higher in the water. Flotation above your chest does very little good. People have drowned IN lifevests. Many mfgs are making vests with strap or mesh shoulders.

Tracie,

I wear my life vest (Lotus kayak vest) under my harness and then clip the harness shoulder straps into the strap that is the closure for the vest pocket. This pocket closure is a vertical strap with a plastic male clip on it that clips into the female end of the clip attached to the vest. The harness straps come straight up from the spreader, the right strap comes to left of the female clip and over the right shoulder. Then the left harness strap comes to the right of the female clip and over the left shoulder. I then slide the male clip into the female clip which closes the pocket and keeps the harness shoulder straps from sliding off the shoulders. That pocket is in the center of the vest. It is all very comfortable and when trapezing, I can lay completely back and have my shoulders supported, my weight evenly distributed over harness. I hope this is helpful.

Without a doubt, a river or diving knife should be standard equipment for any catamaran sailor. I never thought so until my harness hook caught on the hiking strap of my 20 as I was capsizing. The boat started to get pulled over on me, and luckily the mast stuck in the bottom before I could be trapped under water.

Very scary! I now have a Gerber River Guide knife strapped to my harness, and like knowing it's there!

Fair winds,

Tim J.

I like as much of my gear to fit tightly as possible, so as not to get caught on lines or other stuff. I wear an Extrasport Excaliber (side zip) OVER my Magic Marine/Aquata Equipe' full harness. This harness has almost nothing for lines to hang on, but fits sooooooo tight, that no matter what I do, there is NO way that I'm comming out of it easily. (I have to do this little dance to get into it (with the straps loose) and a weird sort of reverse wiggle dance on the beach to get it off. There is no in or out of this harness with the straps tight. There are four straps to tighten/loosen to get it on/off. It really is the BEST harness that I've found (most comfortable/supportive).

I don't see any safety reason for wearing it anyother way. The hook is fairly low profile and not hard to clear. I like useing SS rings instead of any other sort of hooks (dogbones, can't hurt's, can't miss...etc) They take some getting used to, but once you get if figured out, it is so nice. Lines don't get caught or tangled on them, they stay out of the way and easy to clear off the hook.

I make a conscious effort to make sure that no lines are wrapped around ANY part of me (excluding hands) while sailing. Do a lot of "house cleaning"... very important for not getting tied up. I was trapped once under a sunfish once... yeah, I know... only has one line, but... I was tangled up there anyway. Now, I carry a big honk'n Merchin (spelling?) safety/dive knife. I've only had to use it once, but..... who knows when I will have to again. You know what they say, "be prepared"

Will

I just dug out my old extraction gear and found a pair of extraction "sheers" there are more like pliers but are spring loaded and in a few tests I have cut through everything that you could think of on a boat. Lines, stays, hiking straps (I have a bunch of old boat parts here) -- they cut them all like butter.

Since they are stainless (mostly) they should live forever. I'll try to find a link to the manufacturer. But memory tells me that they were about $40. Cheap compared to a good knife.

I'll keep ya posted.

Steve

Yes they have a lanyard and a holster (nylon/velcro)

Steve

I've seen Will's little "wiggle dance" on the beach before. The Department of Fish and Wildlife have contacted him directly to get him to dress in more privacy, as his "wiggle dance" has thrown the entire bee population into confusion.

Charles Harp, with the Florida DEP, had this to say:

"It's the damnedest thing - apparently, this movement closely emulates the dance executed by drones in the local bee poulation to communicate with the rest of the hive. As near as we can tell, Will's frenetic body movements when he's getting dressed for a race roughly translate to 'I am with Local 475 - there is a four-acre field of Black-eyed-Susans at 16 degrees to the current solar azimuth. Look for the hot dog vendor and turn left.' These directions are, of course, totally bogus. There hasn't been a hot dog vendor on the beach in years."

Alger Letson, a bee enthusiast and apiary owner in Milton, is considering legal action.

"Dammit - my bees is gone! They's last seen up in Flomaton headed northwest! I demands reparations! There's no honey in th' pot and that ain't funny!"

Will could not be reached for comment.

Traci,

I just recieved a new harness from Layline,..it is a MUSTO full harness with velcro around the upper thighs,.....the crotchless design,....it is infinately adjustable to all dimensions,.....cost with bar is $129.00

Best in comfort and support on the line,...I was shocked

Drawback,...the 'butt'material does NOT grab the tramp,...it "slides' ,....gonna have to sew on some leather.

Bruce

St. Croix

Kieth,

On the beach resently, another cat sailor walked up and we started talking as I was putting away the boat,...he told me about the time a crew got her harness hook caught on the tramp webbing,...it scared him so bad he went to a 'ball and socket' harness syetem,....but I do not see these around anymore,......you are right,..it is a potential nightmare..

Bruce

St. Croix

( especially when you have a 1 man boat..)

Hi:

Casey wears her harness under and over her life jacket. She first puts on her harness, then her life jacket over it. She then takes the shoulder straps out the neck hole of the life jacket and down over the outer front of the life jacket, and then clips the straps to the buckle. By wearing her harness this way, she has unobstructed access to her hook.

We have both worn knives for some time while sailing as we know of several instances where sailors got trapped by their gear or loose lines on the boat. I would recommend wearing a knife and using it to free yourself if you ever get caught, rather than trying to remove your trap harness. It is very hard to quickly remove gear when underwater. We have used Myerchin folding knives with sheepsfoot blades in the past. The sheepsfoot design is blunt on the tip so that you can't stab yourself. However, we are looking for serrated edge, sheepsfoot blade, fixed blade knives now. I had experienced cutting away an errant tow line in our rigging when we had a negative event in the Pacific Ocean a couple of years ago. I was amazed at how difficult it was to unfold a knife when you were swimming in cold water with 6 foot waves. I believe that if you were trapped underneath a boat, you would not want to waste time unfolding anything.

WRT to women's harnesses - Casey wears a women's harness built by the Spinnaker Shop, out in California. I don't remember the url for them, but they are easily found and the company is actually named something like "Hi tech sewing". Search under Spinnaker Shop. She likes the harness way better than anything currently out on the market.

-Greg

Greg,

I have carried a sheath knife on my life jacket for several seasons for exactly the reasons you gave. My personal favorite is the Gerber River Shorty. I would also consider the Gerber River Guide I if I were starting over.

Both knives have chisel tips for prying, a serrated edge for cutting, and a plastic handle. Both are shorter than the average sheath or dive knife.

http://www.gerberblades.com

-Jamie

I have a CRKT Stiff Kiss on my PFD. I really like it. Small, light, strong. Regardless of what knife you use, it REALLY helps to make sure it is very sharp.

David Rogers

Hi Dave!

I think I understand what you described. We are going to Mid-Winters this weekend - so I will try wearing the harness and jacket as you suggested.

I'll let you know how it works.

Tracie

Hi there,

Yeah, DaveLennard was describing a similair way of wearing a harness and jacket. I am going to give it a shot.

I'm really interested in finding that site you spoke about which carries womens harnesses.

As far as knives go, I don't carry one...Dennis does, but not me. Maybe I should start.

Tracie