Sheets -- What line to get?

Time for NEW Yale Light! At least when new it doesn't soak up water, runs nice, and resists tangles. It does wear, though, like I suspect everything does. Just replaced my mainsheet's worn Yale Light (was soaking up water, among other things) with some new, back to normal!

Yep, you may be right! But, I just figured I should be open to new possibilities.....

Tim J.

Tim,

I just replaced my sheets with Yale Vizzion. Too early for a verdict on wear, etc., but it feels good, runs through the blocks well, and doesn't soak up water. (The line came highly recommended by other sailors.)

So all of your sheets are now Yale Vizzion?

Good and light I presume, so as not to weigh down a jib in light air?

Thanks,

Tim J.

I will probably buy 5/16" Yale Light for the mainsheet on a H16 soon (already use 1/4" for the jib sheet). However, I have seen braided polypro (by Marlow?) recommended by Layline for J24 mainsheets. Any opinions on this? Polypro is lower strength but also much cheaper than Spectra cored line.

What are realistic mainsheet loads? 3/8" polyester seems like overkill for a H16 mainsheet?

Hi Guys,

A little advice here? Basics for us semi-hardcore sailors struggling to make the jump to get "real gear" 🙂

My new Smyth pentex laminates arrive in a couple o' weeks, and using waterlogged old sheets on 'em just gives me the willies.

1. Where do you buy this "yale [xxx]" brand of rope (never saw it in West Marine)

2. Price per foot?

3. Can you taper it? How?

4. Is it easy to grip, or has that atribute been traded off for low friction in the block/low absorbancy? Do you guys recommend "grippy" gloves?

Thanks,

Ed Norris

Tim,

I've gone with the Vizzion on both main and jib.

The weight on Yale Vizzion is a bit heavier than the YaleLight (3/8 inch line = 4.1 lbs per 100 ft vs. 3.1 lbs). I was concerned about going too light and not having enough weight to flick the sheet out of the cleat. The Yale Vizzion is about the same weight as the Samson Trophy Braid (commonly used fuzzy cover double braid) when dry, but the Trophy Braid soaks up a lot of water.

Ed,

These days, prices are coming down to downright reasonable for cored lines, which I have and recommend due to their ability to be tapered (weight savings), and the outer covering can almost be customized to your grip needs. The tapering also allows you to use smaller blocks, saving additional weight.

I replaced my mainsheet (I-20) with tapered spectra core from www.layline.com (I think that's the site). With the new blocks, I saved substantial weight on the mainsail. I chose a covering that does not absorb water, and was relatively easy to grab (course, I still use Obrien waterski gloves for padding). We were impressed enough by the weight savings to replace the spinnaker sheets as well with a similar cord and tapered it, too. It ain't cheap, so if you're a guy who parks his boat on the beach and ignores it for the weeks between sailing, stay with the heavy stuff. If you want to get out and race, and take pretty good care of your boat, drop the extra $$ for the "good stuff". I hate to admit it (being the tightwad that I am), but it does make things a little easier.

Just some thoughts.

http://www.apsltd.com or http://www.layline.com both have a large selection online.

Aps has the Yale Light in some new colors that I have not seen before.

As far as boating chain stores go, try Boat U.S. for Yale line. In our area, they're the only ones (except for maybe APS) that has it. West Marine has their own preferred brand of lines with nothing comparable, and other places (that should know better) looked at me like I was from Mars when I suggested line that doesn't soak up water...

Ed,

1. Where do you buy this "yale [xxx]" brand of rope (never saw it in West Marine)

West Marine is limited mostly to the New England Ropes selection. I bought the Yale Vizzion from Annapolis Performance Sailing.

2. Price per foot?

Pricing on the Vizzion 5/16 (jib sheet) was $1.14/ft, and 3/8 (mainsheet) was $1.37/ft (about 30 cents a foot cheaper than Layline's pricing).

3. Can you taper it? How?

Yalelight is strippable, but I don't believe you can with the Vizzion.

4. Is it easy to grip, or has that atribute been traded off for low friction in the block/low absorbancy? Do you guys recommend "grippy" gloves?

Vizzion has a polyester cover vs. a polypropylene cover on the Yalelight. One of the reasons I went with the Vizzion is because it has a good "hand". While I do like the feel of the fuzzy polyester cover on Samson's Trophy Braid, I wasn't thrilled with the other characteristics of the line, especially the way it absorbs water, leaving the jib sheets pretty heavy. I would highly recommend gloves. Either Ronstan or Harken. My personal preference is the 3-finger model (with the half-finger only on the index finger). I used to wear the half-finger gloves and would lose too much skin on the tips of my fingers.

Thanks, Kevin!

I currently use cheap gloves, but have my eye on the "Black magic" ones from RonstanorisitHarken in Murrays.

I'll be ordering the VIzzion.

How do you 'strip' it? I'm planning to get some nice fat stuff and taper the part that usually lives inside the blocks, and keep the stock blocks. Reason is, my left hand's been acting up lately... tight fist ain't what it used to be.

Thanks again,

Ed Norris

Ed,

Better check about tapering the Vizzion. I'm not sure if it's possible. (It is possible with YaleLight.)

... I see that you said that.

But how do you actually strip it?

Ed

Hey all,

I ended up getting a whole bunch of Yale Light from Layline at such a killer deal, that it really eliminated any other considerations.

If you go to their site, and do a search for yale light, you'll run across any "tails" that they have for sale at rock bottom prices.

I got 80' of 3/8" green yale light for $47, a bit less than 60 cents per foot! I tried to order 100 feet of Yale Vizzion for an absolute killer deal of $32, or 32 cents per foot, but after placing the order last night, they wrote to me this morning, and said they were out of stock, and that the web site was wrong.

Anyway, I called them and told them I was looking for 5/16" line for the jib. The lady I talked to said she would check in back to see what other tails they had. She came back and informed me that they had 80 feet of red, and 50 feet of blue, and that they'd sell it for 40 cents a foot if I remember right. Can't remember exactly, but it was such a great deal that I bought it all, figuring that if I didn't use it, I could find someone who would!

Anyway, keep an eye on that Layline bunch, you never know what kind of deal you might get!

Sea ya,

Tim J.

Ed,

Be careful about splicing line together for a mainsheet. I've tried it a few times and I've never been happy with the result. The problem is that no matter where you put the splice you end up with it in the wrong place at one time or another. It seemed like when I was going upwind I always ended up holding the small line anyway. If you change your mast rake you will change where the splice should be because your blocks will be closer or farther apart. I absolutely hate having the splice right where I'm sheeting in and out downwind because it tends to stick a little at times. Anyway I just wanted to let you know this as to save you a little time and money if I could. I use some old Lionbraid which I love but I'm just about to switch it out for some 3/8 Yale Light which came stock on my H20.

Good Luck with you decision.

Keep One Hull Flying,

Mike Hill

H20 #791

Layline, they are the best... their warehouse is right down the street from my apartment, and a couple of guys from our club work there. At any rate, I can't get to their "Cordage" section lately... "sorry, there are no items in this section"

I called them up and the lady I was talking to was like "oh, theres something wrong?"

I heard "from a guy on the beach" you can take one long length of line, and partially remove some of the core material, especially the fibers included for bulk only, from the portion of the line which resides in your blocks. Is this what Kevin's referring to as "stripping"?

Ed Norris

Ed,

I haven't heard of the process which you are talking about. I do not know how you could remove a portion of the core.

I have heard of people removing the cover off the core for the area that goes through the blocks. I do not recommend this for the same reasons I don't recommend tapered lines.

Mike Hill

H20 #791

Look at the mainsheet as if it were different pieces of line with different requirements.

The section that runs throught the blocks, but doesn't reach the cleat, must be very strong, but can be very skinny without a friction cover.

The section that gets runs from the cleat to the skippers hands, upwind, must be fat enough and "grippy" enough to pull and cleat without hurting his hands and yet still run well.

The section that runs from the traveler deadend to the skippers hands must be biggest of all (less purchase), but carries little load. It is hardest to pull because it is only a 2:1 while the main is 7:1 or 8:1, so the load on the line is far less.

The section that connects the "upwind section to the "traveler" section, the "downwind" section, carries the least load of all, but it still must be gripped.

So, if you take a small spectra core line, appropriate to your block selection, you can strip the cover off the section that is behind the mainsheet cleat, pull the core out of the "downwind" section and add the core to the "traveler" section.

You would end up with a continuous line with four different strengths and thicknesses.

It is much easier than it sounds.

P.S.

There is also Marlow Taperable Sheets which has a Spectra core and TWO covers on it. Think of the possibilities 🙂

...and it all gets even more interesting when you consider that at least one of the lines I looked at last night claims to have a dual fiber core - one for strength, one for bulk.

Fascinating, but I'm still no closer to knowing how to actually do any of this.... core removal an like that.

Ed

The lines with dual fibers are interwoven, you can't separate them, but you get the idea.

Core removal is the easiest.

Assume you have a 15 foot section of line which is never heavily loaded. Measure from the traveler end and mark it. Milk the cover splice open to get to the core. Cut the core in one spot.

Milk the core out from the blocks end 15 feet.

You now have a 15 foot stripped tail also.

The ends should be sewn tight.

You can also "taper" the core so you don't get an abrupt transition from full line to core only- Just take point where you want "full line" and then cut some of the core, remove these strands, move down several inches, cut more, etc. until get to point where cut the rest and have cover only beyond that point. One advantage of tapering is tends not "slip" or bunch at the transition- You can also sew/stitch the cover to the core at/near the transition to help prevent this- Just stretch line very well (tying off the "full" end) first-

There are many good books at West Marine, etc. on lines and rigging that go into lots of details and most of the rope companies will send you literature if you ask for it on exactly how they recommend "modifying" (even knotting!) their lines-

Regards,

Kirt