single handing

I started cat sailing in 1977 on a Hobie 16, and then purchased a 18 Square back in 1985. I sailed it until I purchased a Nacra 5.5 Uni in 1991. When the Inter 17R came out for 2000, I just had to have one. I've sailed it for 2 summers and it just gets better and better!

I loved all my boats...but when I went back to a H16 after being on the 18m2, I just wasn't happy on the H16 anymore. I think I loved the 18m2 more than the N5.5 Uni, but I never loved the assembly/disassembly drill you get when you have a boat wider than 8.5'. The terrific fleet of N5.5 Unis in Michigan made that a wonderful boat...fast and responsive and the fleet racing made all of us learn to get the most out of it. When I had the option to add spinnaker sailing to a single-handed boat (Inter 17 R), I just couldn't pass it up. The spinnaker just adds so much fun to the sailing experience, I know that I won't be happy going back to any of the boats I sailed before, even though I loved them when I had them. As regards the Hobie 17, well our Michigan fleet had them before they all switched to the Nacra 5.5 Uni. I have sailed Hobie 17s and I don't think they hold a candle to the Nacra. Our fleet experienced some quality problems back in the late 80's with their H17s, but I suspect that has been resolved by now.

If I were to talk about how all the boats handled, only the Inter 17R has fingertip control. All the others have significant weather helm by comparison. I can lay the tiller down on the Inter and the boat continues to track with a slight tendency to come up to weather. I love how it handles, but the spinnaker is what makes the boat so wonderful. Also, quality has been top notch...no complaints at all.

I hope this helps!

Les Gallagher

Inter 17R USA 104

little yellow boat

have you tried solo on your 16? its a LOT faster. my old 81 has reef points and a roller furling type jib- reefed and with the smaller jib its about as fast singlehanded as a regular 16 with two up. with the full main, a singlehanded 16 has mucho power for its weight: FUN!

marsh hawk

Thanks for the info, the coments about the 18 square and the inter 17 are helpfull.

Regarding the single handing on my 16 I do that quite alot. I also sail with my eight year old, and she is prety light. I have found that on several occasions we can,t keep the boat upright. It sure is fun sailing an overpowered boat for our weight. We need to carry about 30 # to race.

Any suggestions for depowering that are class legal. We allready sail with maximum mast rake, and I've shortened up the jib sheet blocks along with the main sheet blocks to achieve mast bend to flatten out the main.

Anyway thanks again for the tips.

Isn't this forum great !

Mike, I have single handed my H-14, H-16, H-18, and now race a H-17. It is a great boat, and we have a strong local fleet. The boat is also large enough to support two people for fun sailing. As for the 18sq, it is faster, but not all that much. I have beat 18sq. on corrected time in local long distance races. The market for H-17's is good. The new boat price is reasonable, and there are several used H-17's available.

Caleb

I agree with dannyb9. I would also suggest adding Trapseats to the H16 as it gives it added width for heavy weather sailing when soloing it or when sailing with a kid. I often sail with my 9-year-old daughter.

by far the inter 17/r is the funiest deal on the water

Geez, I'm surprised no one has mentioned an A-Cat to you.

Not to knock the I-17R but the two times I have raced against these boats, I have beaten them boat for boat.

The biggest positives for the A-Boat are:

1. Super light weight/simple - the boat is so easy to rig and launch, very simple and clean rigging layouts.

2. Durable - the boats hold up extremely well (contrary to what certain people (who don't sail them) have said on these forums). The quality of the boats is higher than anything I've seen Performance Catamaran produce (speaking as a former owner of a P-19).

3. Established class - the boat is a development class but we have seen several platforms winning races. The most important thing when buying an A-boat is to get the mast/sail that matches your sailing weight.

4. Performance - I have never been beaten by an I-17R boat for boat. I sail faster upwind than Nacra 6.0's, H-20's, and I-20's. The boat tacks faster than anything I have ever sailed making the upwind legs alot more fun. I have never sailed anything so responsive in light air. The boat is very easy to sail in heavy air. The bows are so fine it is very hard to pitchpole.

Still not convinced? Well, just talk to folks like Woody Cope, Matt Struble, W.F. Oliver, and Bob Curry and ask them what their favorite boat is.

Hope this helps.

Bob Hodges

Hi Mike,

Remember! the first rule about boat choice is

Where and how you want to sail

.

I have an 18sq. and a Hobie 17.

I currently race the Hobie 17 because the other 18's quit traveling and we have a large H17 group in the east.

As far as handling goes, the H17 sucks compared to any Nacra. The centerboards are so small that they stall very easily. While the boat is large enough for two people, it doesn't have enough bouyancy to carry 250 lbs very well. I weigh 200lbs and when I am passing the tiller around the mainsheet, the sterns sink so deep that water laps over the rear crossbar.

Despite its shortcomings it is a fun boat that can be sailed fast by a light skipper.

The 18sq. is an amazing boat to sail. It points extremely high. The width makes it almost gust-proof.

It is the biggest pain in the butt to put together. I can assemble mine in one hour without any help.

The PN of the 18sq. is unusual. The DPN is only 9% faster than the H17, but when the wind range adjustments are used it is almost 14% better.

Theoretically, if PNs are correct then ANY skipper can correct over everybody if he sails a better race.

Just find a boat that suits your needs, don't worry about everybody elses opinion.

HERE ARE THE RESULTS OF THE PAST WEEKEND REGATTA. LOOK AT ALL THE DIFFERENT BOATS AND HOW THEY FINISH. DOUG KLEM ..First - Krantz/Zurn on an I-20

Second - Lambert/McGee on an H 20

Third - Smith/Barberi on an I-20

Fourth - Klem, I-17R

Fifth - Newkirk/Holmes, I-20

Sixth - Smith/Richardson, H 20

Seventh - Wilson/VanZandt, H 20 w/spin

Eighth - Beach/Howe, H 20

Ninth - Newkirk/Fruitticher, I-18

Tenth - Cook/Smith, N 6.0 Express

Eleventh - Rottgering, I-17R

Twelfth - Sawyer, I-17R

Thirteenth - MacDonald/MacDonald, H Fox

Fourteenth - Anderson, I-17R

Fifteenth - Taylor/Pepper H 16

Sixteenth - Yates, P 18-2

Seventeenth (tie) - Holstead, P 18

Seventeenth (tie) - Page, P 18-2

Seventeenth (tie) - Harp/Harp, N 6.0

Because the mix of I-17, H20 and I-20 (genakers) looks VERY much like a corrected time mix and therefor these rankings may not very be indicative of ACTUAL performance. I mean a good handicap system used on good sailors would produce more or less the same finihing times for all boat types.

Now on a more personal note.

I agree with Bob that if one is really looking for a high performance singlehander of normal dimensions that there are a few other choices to be seriously cosidered. Of which A-cat is most certainly one , last I heard was that Hobie FX -one is being imported to US and lets not forget F16's which are also imported to the USA. One F16 is on special offer right now (Info : www.geocities.com/F16HPclass/)

Wouter

(be adviced that I'm involved in F16 HP class setup)

Have you considered the single handed version of the Taipan 4.9. what a rocket! Check it out at http://www.taipanamerica.com/

I'm going to perform the same trick as CATASTROPHIC.

Alter Cup Area F Eliminations Lake Texoma, TX

October 13-14, 2001

1 Kirt Simmons T4.9 159 --2 2 1 4 1 2 12 4 ---8

2 Jamie Gaines/Casey I-20 -- 300 1 1 3 3 3 1 12 3 ---9

3 David Swingle T4.9 226 --4 3 5 7 2 3 24 7 ---17

4 Dennis McCredie/ Bruce Fields HGET 1 --3 5 2 1 7 7 25 7--- 18

5 Mike Ewald/Travis Cook I-20 267 -- 5 4 4 7 4 4 28 7 --- 21

6 Doug Camp/Troy TORN 818 --7 7 6 2 7 7 36 7 --- 29

7 John Webster/Steve Foxall I-20 268 --6 6 7 5 7 7 38 7 --- 31

Take a look how many 1 and 2 points placings for Kirt on a Taipan 4.9 !!!

Mind you these results are CORRECTED time and therefor these say nothing about the actual finishing of kirt with respect to the I-20 and others. Because take a look at the hobie Getaway; these resultsgive the impression that it beats 20 footers like the I-10 and Hobie fox. For a getaway I find this hard to believe. In short on corrected time anyone can find results to give a good impression of the boat he or she backs. Just Like I have these results to back up the Taipan 4.9.

So ONLY elapsed time finishings are dependable.

So my point about elapsed and corrected time results is made.

Wouter

POS SAIL CLASS CODE SKIPPER CREW 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 TOTAL THROW

1 500 Start 3 N5.5U Enders, Greg None 3 8 2 5 2 2 3 1 25.75 17.75

2 916 Start 3 N5.5U Soullier, Jack None 6 3 4 3 3 4 3.5714 2 28.57 22.57

3 917 Start 3 N5.5U Kennedy, Eric None 5 6 6 2 4 3 4 3 33.00 27.00

4 104 Start 3 I-17R Gallagher, Les None 1 1 1 14 5 12 7 DNF 50.25 36.25

5 116 Start 3 I-17R Cox,Jim Jr None 8 4 5 6 8 5 5 6 47.00 39.00

6 914 Start 3 N5.5U Miller, Ron None 7 5 7 10 7 1 8 5 49.75 39.75

7 103 Start 3 I-17R Young, Jack None 4 9 8 4 9 6 2 8 50.00 41.00

8 10 Start 3 BIM16U Schneider, Mark None DNS DNS 3 1 1 13 1 DNF 62.25 45.25

9 918 Start 3 N5.5U Kennedy, Marc None 9 7 13 7 6 7 10 7 66.00 53.00

10 919 Start 3 N5.5U Nowak, Chris None 11 13 9 8 11 10 9 4 75.00 62.00

11 436 Start 3 N5.5U Thiesen, Bob None 13 10 11 13 DNS 11 14 9 98.00 81.00

12 LCD Start 3 18SM-1 Lindahl, Jon None 12 12 14 12 DNS 9 13 DNF 99.00 82.00

13 438 Start 3 N5.5U Kletke, Fritz None 10 11 12 11 10 DNS 12 DNS 100.00 83.00

14 100 Start 3 I-17R Batchelor, Mark None 2 2 DNS DNS DNS DNS DNS DNS 106.00 89.00

15 159 Start 3 T4.9U Simmons, Kirk None DNS DNS 10 9 DNS 8 11 DNS 106.00 89.00

16 426 Start 3 N5.5U Paterson, Bob None DSQ DNS 15 DNS DNS DNS DNS DNS 135.00 117.00

17 406 Start 3 N5.5U Maniak, Larry None DNS DNS DNS DNS DNS DNS DNS DNS 136.00 119.00

The results of CatFight II 17 single-handed boats

Regards

Mark

Since there is interest in actual results, here is the recap for our race at Skamokawa 2001. This was a race from Skamokawa, WA. down the Columbia River to near Astoria, Oregon and back, about 30 miles. Conditions were

Beaufort 4, with waves 1 to 5 feet.

Place Crew Boat Corrected Portsmouth

1 Eric Marshack TheMightyHobie18 215.79

Valerie Goresz

2 Dave Wilder H17 216.83

3 Mike Wallace H17 219.55

4 Mark Logan 18sq 219.68

5 Ryan Letchford TheMightyHobie18 222.83

Mark Krause

6 Caleb Tarleton H17 223.42

7 Jon Nilan TheMightyHobie18 223.97

(no crew-single handed)

8 Mike Brunella Inter 20 224.02

Ken Marshack

9 Kipp Silver H20 224.91

Tim Dorwin

10 Peter Nelson H16 226.18

laura Sullivan

11 Sandy Dick 18sq 228.48

12 Kelly Havig H16 230.28

Melissa Flannigan

13 Chris Brazier H17 233.02

14 Stan Breed TheMightyHobie18 234.19

Lee

15 Randy Nikolai 18sq 236.86

16 Dave Cassell H20 237.64

Ron White

17 Pat McGarry 18sq 239.77

18 Geoff Orr H20 w/spin 240.45

Molly Huber

19 Bill Groesz H16 241.51

20 Jeremy Groesz H17 241.69

21 Chris Dingle H16 243.08

Sally Dingle

22 Kent Steele H18SX 254.68

23 Hugh Barraclaugh H17 262.26

Caleb Tarleton, Fleet 95, Div 4, H-17 6185

I BEAT ALL BOATS BOAT FOR BOAT EXCEPT FIRST, SECOND, THRIRD & FIFTH. I ONLY CORRECTED OUT OVER THE FOURTH PLACE BOAT. NOT TRYING TO START A WAR , JUST SHOWING THAT THE I-17/R UNDER THE RIGHT SAILOR CAN BE VERY FAST. WHERE AS YOU THINK THAT THOSE ARE CORRECTED OVER , THERE NOT. YOU CAN ASK JOHN WILLIAMS. FIVE MAYBE SIX BOATS WERE AHEAD UPWIND BUT ONCE AROUND THE UPWIND MARK THE I-17/R IS ONE HARD BOAT TO BEAT. THANKS, DOUG KLEM

Seems to me that an T4.9 would be much faster than the I17R, and lighter at that (for those with bad backs). Seems to me the N5.5, 5.2 and other are hard to beat to. It would be interesting to see how the I17R and T4.9 stack up against each other boat for boat.

I BEAT ALL BOATS BOAT FOR BOAT EXCEPT FIRST, SECOND, THRIRD & FIFTH. I ONLY CORRECTED OUT OVER THE FOURTH PLACE BOAT

(wouter) So the results listed were corrected results. So I was right there. And according to this admission you did move one place up due to handicap calculations, don't you think yourself that this in combination with the fact that these results were CORRECTED results is misleading.Maybe the other I-17 R on list move down a couple of more places. I don't know; I can't tell, you haven't given us the name of that

last weekend regatta

.

JUST SHOWING THAT THE I-17/R UNDER THE RIGHT SAILOR CAN BE VERY FAST

I'm really sure it is, I once saw a prindle 15 sail into 50 th at a 650 boats Texel regatta. My point wasn't about making the I-17R look bad I know it is a fast boat in the right hands. My point was against using CORRECTED results as proof of this. I can present the Texel results of 1999 and proof in much the same way that that P15 was the best single hander on earth.

WHERE AS YOU THINK THAT THOSE ARE CORRECTED OVER , THERE NOT. YOU CAN ASK JOHN WILLIAMS

Well, I can't smell that of the screen can I now. Nor can others.

So I'm not against the I 17 R and I'm sure it is a fast boat and I'm sure you like it very much both personally and PROFESSIONALLY. Can you still make a good deal on one ?

These are my personal opinions and I my only intend was the use of corrected results as a indication of performance. The same applies to me and my perferred type of boats as I have shown in my other post. And once agian I state that I'm involved in the F16 group so that other readers can view my post in the right light.

Wouter

(F16 HP group member)

Sail-S-

I'm not aware of any other open regattas in the US other than CF II where both boats were present racing in the same fleet. There were 3 other 4.9's there (including Jim Boyer!) but they were racing as sloops and the Committee put them in a fleet with Hobie 16's only. I have seen Jim beat Nacra 6.0's and Inter 20's boat for boat on the sloop- in Ohio last year. I and the 5.5 unis were without spinnakers and I (and the BIM 16?) drove 20+ hours to get there and couldn't get there until the second day so DNS'ed those.

As I posted earlier I was having a

bad weekend

personally and did not sail the 4.9 to it's potential (IMO) but the local 5.5 and Inter 17R sailors, (who regularly race there and against each other), are very good on their boats as expected in a strong local fleet did quite well (see Jack Young's score- he's w/ Performance in CA). I think it is very hard to compare spinnaker and non-spinnaker boats to each other in any given race/regatta because they are so different (especially uni-rig boats!). Whereas a single main downwind is very hard to sail well (and is often the slowest point of sail UNLESS

Wild Thing

conditions are present) any type of a headsail, particularly a spinnaker, greatly changes this leg IF the spinnaker can be flown! Anyway, Mark on the BIM 16 did a much better job of sailing a solo person F16 HP in that regatta AND since the BIM has a spi (although it's 15 sq meter vs the Inter's 17+ sq. meter) it's a better comparision and you can see from the CF II results posted it did very well against the longer/larger sails 5.5's and Inter 17R's. (Of course it's PN is rated slower than my 4.9- and that's with the 4.9 main only and the BIM w/ spi- But that's another issue isn't it?).

All the boats mentioned are fine boats, they all have strong points and weak points, and there are a number of boats not mentioned like the Isotope, Sea Spray 15, Freestyle 474, M 18, Hobie Trilfoiler, etc. - Just pick the one that has the most strong points that appeal to you and the fewest weak points that bother you and be happy!

Sail on!

Kirt Simmons

Also involved w/ F16 HP project. Currently own Taipan 4.9,

A

cat, Hobie 14turbo, Prindle 15 and Prindle 18, ex- Nacra 18 square, Nacra 5.0, Prindle 16, Sol Cat 15, Hobie 14, Kona 14.

Kirt Simmons

Taipan #159,

A

cat US 48