Skipper's responsibilities/liability

The only time I would accept full responsibility would be when a minor is involved. I've no idea how the law comes down on the issue.

I fully agree that the skipper is responsible for the safety of the crew and is liable for her injuries. I don't know the law in texas but here in cali she would own his house and boat now.

The guy does seem like a jerk, but maybe I'll just sail solo from now on.

While I certainly think that the skipper holds a great deal of responsibility when it comes to the boat condition and the operation of the vessel, I also believe in a strict sense of self-responsibility.

If this crew member willingly knew that this boat was unseaworthy and agreed to go out on it anyways, then she bears the responsibility of what happens to her during an accident. When it boils down to it, nobody is holding a gun to her head and forcing her to sail on a boat that she (presumably) knew was not safe.

All of the above is based on the premise that the boat was obviously busted before it left the beach. When deception or negligence comes into play, the waters are considerably muddied.

I've seen some pretty derelict vessels

make it

much further than you think they would (hell, look at the cheese scow thread on sailing anarchy!) and when something breaks and hurts someone, it becomes a question of whether or not the owner/skipper's action or inaction led to the events that caused the injury. For example, if I just replaced my crossbeam on my N20, and the next time we go out, it buckles due to a structural defect. In the process of breaking, poor Bailey gets his noggin hit. Should I be held responsible even though I replaced the beam with what I presumed was a structurally sound one? How about if we're sailing along, and hit a submerged object with a daggerboard causing a pitchpole which causes crew injury?

If you have a passenger in your car and run off the road due to bad tires are you liable? Yes.
I feel the same issues apply with the boat. I personally always sail with insurance covering me my boat and anyone on the boat , as well as liability for any thing else.

I'm insured as well. I think we agree when the skipper is negligent, but is the skipper always liable? How about a serious injury during a pitchpole?

Bailey is not a good example. He would just shrug it of and find a way to fix it.

For the most part, youguys are on the same page as I am on the matter. Boat condition and assesment of it are the skippers responsibility. Conditions? In the 07 Tybee, I opted out of leg 3 due to the fact that I didn't feel my crew was up to it. I felt I was but I was afraid if he lost his marbles out there things could get way worse trying to drive the boat and keep him safe. I guess I assume the worst and prepare for it. In the end, it's my responsibility to get the crew back to the beach in one piece.

IMHO, i feel he only is responsible if he was negligent. If she could tell the boat was not in great repair she owns the responsibility for her safety. Unless he knew there was a defect that was not visible, and he didn't inform her ... then he was negligent.

It does speak allot that he wouldn't return her calls, and didn't seem to care about her injuries... perhaps she used bad judgment sailing with someone of such low character.

I used to take every attractive young lady i could talk into a ride out on my boat. Someone i look up to pointed out that there are inherent risks with sailing, and to be sure my crew understands this.. and that i only take out people i feel will respect this, and react appropriately to my direction...

I see how a skipper could be held responsible.
But doesn't the crew, especially in a regatta where they most likely have done it before and know what they are getting themselves into, assume the risk and therefore are responsbile for knowlingly endagering themsleves?

IMHO they are both at fault.

For the crew to take part in a dangerous sport without health insurance.
The skipper for not having his boat insured, insurance is mandatory for regattas over here.
(Being a jerk is not illegal).

Injuries can happen even on the best equipped boats (remember Ashby broke his ankle).

Would it be rude to inquire as to the health of the mast? I am looking for a straight undented P19 mast.

Who is the more irresposible person here, the one with no health insurance is right up there...

This can and probably will happen to many skippers, regardless of boat condition. You might want to have your crew sign a

Libiltiy release

if you are concerned. Even if your crew is your

best friend

or even your brother, and you KNOW he would never sue you, what if he dies in some freak accident (hits power lines while raising your mast while you are in the men's room) and then his wife sues you?

And what about car wrecks? This happens all the time, where the driver lives but a passenger (or two) is killed. Remember Hulk Hogan's kid who crashed while street racing his car and maimed his passenger? He went to jail AND is being sued.

Maritime law states very clearly that a skipper is responsible for the safety or his crew and vessel. No question about this incedent.

Always carry insurance folks. It's cheap and well worth it.

I accept that responsibility as a skipper.

If you pitchpole and your crew gets hurt see my first sentence for your answer.

But let's not tell the crews. <img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />

I forgot to mention low experienced crew and they never sailed together before. Mike is spot on as far as I'm concerned.

Well, I guess I will sail solo.

Just out of curiosity, does maritime law cover inland waters?

Hey Lee,

Just curious about why you're asking on this forum. This is clearly a question for a marine lawyer. Our opinions don't matter at all when it comes time to collect.

Now, if you're just fishing, carry on...

Mike

Well, it is a forum where opinions can and should be voiced 😛

After all, we all have opinions, and they all stink 😛

I am fairly anal about the status of my boat in terms of rigging. Yes, some things aren't the way they should be (can't find an eye strap small enough for one of the trap lines, etc) but as owner and skipper you are responsible for making sure your boat is safe and that the person you are sailing with has some sort of idea of what to expect and the dangers involved. That being said, I occasionally crew on a boat that isn't 100% the way I would like it to be (but not nearly as bad as a monohull I used to sail on... I was always waiting for something to break on that boat) and wouldn't sue that skipper if I got hurt - since I knew the risks. Problem is the off the beach recreational sailor who just wants a fun ride. What do they know about the forces involved on these boats? They might not interpret it as more than a sunfish.

BTW... not having insurance on your boat is very dangerous. but that being said, the medical coverage on the policy isn't very high. Just got another quote on the 31 and the medical payments were only 10000. That would probably just cover the ER bill and surgery on the knee. Anything more extensive- like decent head injury would go way beyond that.

So much for that ol... All boats must have and show proof of liability insurance! This was probably a requirement to race in the first place. (The foolish common practice these days in small boat regattas)

Since this butt x hole obviously does not have liability insurance... Is the organizing authority responsible because they did not make good on checking that he in fact had valid liability insurance?

When her lawyer sues him for her loss .... why not sue the poor SOB running the regatta for negligence as well..( bet ya he has some assets that will be taken to pay her bills (not to mention the lawyer, which is her only way to make this guy pay the bills)

And then there is the whole weather thing. When is the Race Committee going to call a race to avoid libility if half the fleet is upside down and somebody gets hurt? What if they don't stop the race? Are they

Liable

? In America anyone can sue anyone for any reason or no reason.

forget what the RC wants to do. Yes, they aren't doing anyone any favors necessarily running a race in extreme winds but it is still the skipper who needs to take responsibility. none of this should fall on the RC unless there is stupid over the top negligence (which, I guess, could mean setting the marks in 6 inches of water and causing a bunch of crashes.. I guess). If someone wants to play the -

but it will hurt my standing in the regatta if I don't go out

then whatever.

What were people's opinions several years ago (was it the 2007 tybee?) when the race was being started in significant surf? Did people hold it against the RC or what (I seriously don't remember, wasn't there)? I knwo a bunch of people didn't start which was their decision and apparently a good one.

And yes, insurance should be required to race. I was going to get umbrella insurance last year but found that some wouldn't cover me if I raced sailboats. kind of goofy...

I just wanted to hear other opinions rather than my own on the subject. I've been in a few situations in my life where the driver had no regard for the safety of the passengers and it really pissed me off. The guy in question CLEARLY had no remorse for the victim while he was standing there laughing about the damage and the victim was in transit to the hospital.

I am glad this is being discussed here.. I am learning from it.

I also forgot to mention in my post, that as a human being, that man sucks and should be publicly ridiculed... or stoned... whatever is easier.

How would they be negligent? Bad weather is an act of god and the skipper of each boat out there is responsible for their boat and crew.... the rules are very clear who's responsibility it is to continue to race.... it's always the captain! The judgment of the RC does not undercut the captains responsibility.

But that is why regatta liability insurance exists. It will defend you the PRO and all RC from such a frivolous law suit and costs you about 400 per year.

IMO, This is different then making a claim...

All boats will have liability insurance

... and then not performing the act of verifying insurance coverage adequately or at all.

Not verifying insurance liability is a possibly negligent act that will get you in the middle of the legal mess for no good reason.

The feel good requirement will have inserted your organization (or yourself if not incorporated) into the legal mess between two parties. I do not understand why clubs and class associations insist on this.

So in order to sail with a well covered skipper all crew must:
Show proof of health insurance
Pass a basic seamanship course (in case the skipper is incapacitated and the crew must sail the boat to shore)
pass a swim test
be certified in first aid/CPR
wear necessary safety equipment (pfd, helmet, shoes, gloves)
know how to operate VHF, Flares, PLB, GPS
sign a liability waiver

Pete's right (did I just say that).....we all need to sail singlehanded boats! <img src="<>/frown.gif" alt="frown" title="frown" height="15" width="15" />

anyone who operates any boat should have insurance, regardless of racing.

About a great many things.