I recently aquired a P19 and cant seem to find much info on the boat. I am looking for tips, tricks, modifications and a general sense of how it sails. I have read the literature that says its similar to a Tornado but thats all i have seen. Im just trying to get a general feel for the boat and here others experiences with the P19. I currently sail a Nacra 5.2 so im not new to sailing..Only the P19.
I know how to rig the boat and have the manual. Just looking for overall feel of the boat, its limits, mods, etc
I am on the hunt for a square top for the boat so if you guys have one let me know! I may just buy a new one but if theres a decent priced aquare top i would consider it.
I currently run a spin on my 5.2 and will run a spin on the P19 as well. Im open to spin suggestions...Tornado, F18, etc Im sure one of them would work fairly well and fit.
Welcome to the
Giant Killer
<img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />
From experience....don't ask how I know....
Sqare tops are the way to go, BUT reenforce your
hulls. Install an internal bulkhead just forward
of the FWD crossbeam, will help with the stress
loads from the increase in dynamic lift. Go with
the F18 or N20 Spin. The Tornado Spin is waaaay
to big.
This is MY opinion....YMMV <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />
Get Catamaran Racing for the 90's there is a whole section on the Prindle 19.
the F18 or N20 Spin. The Tornado Spin is waaaay
to big.
This is MY opinion....YMMV <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />
The T spin is not much different than the I20...infact I believe it's flatter and likely smaller overall in square footage. The I20 rig is 31 ft compared to the puny ~29 ft T rig.
Googled it:
N20 Spin: 25 m2
Tornado Spin: 25 m2
Do a search on here for P-19 MX , and look at that mod. It's definitely the way to go.You can have your pinhead modified to a MX square top if you don't want to buy a new one.
I had the MX rig with a 475 sq ft chute and it was excellent in light air and good on up the scale.
I would say GO with a newer cut Tornado kite over an I/N 20 kite. They are flatter and faster.
ButchG...I will post up a picture of the inside of my hulls. Can you use
Paint
or some other program to show me this bulkhead you speak of? I took the deck off of one side already and planned to slightly reinforce but dont really know where to place the added bulkheads and such.
Im going outside to see if i can get a decent pic in the dark! Ill be back soon!
TurboCat
They should be just far FWD enough to clear the mounting
plates for the forward cross beam thru bolts. Also make
sure the bulkhead has a drain cut out at the bottom to let
any water drain. This does two things, it reenforces the
cross beam stress area as well as stiffening the hulls for
less
walking
when cutting waves. This (I think) was
done on the P19's made after 90 or 91. I know there is an
aft bulkhead on boats made after 90. But I am not sure about
the FWD ones. I had mine done after watching stress
fractures appear on two P19's in my area that went to an
MX rig.
Mr. Dobbs is correct...and I stand corrected. The spin I got
was a tornado spin for a T sailor made by Smythe. BUT, it
turns out it was a special order oversize kite...which I am
having cut down for controllability.
A square top main, with a standard size jib and a 24 to 26
square meter spin will bring your D-PN to 64 and change.
Sailed properly (which I am still learning to do) it will
wax N20's....seen it done <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />
Ok just went outside to take a pic and my shop light is burnt out so no pic yet. So is a F18 chute too small? I keep hearing that F18's can carry a chute a lot higher than a N20. Is this simply the cut of the chute or the size? I am very interested in making this a fast boat so a chute is a must.
My main is dacron so i would think it may be smarter to hold out for a mylar or pentex main rather than making the original a squaretop?
So how would you compare the P19 with Chute and SQtop to a F18 and N20? Im just curious if this old boat can hang with the newer hot rods? Assuming all the boats have nice mains and chutes with equal sailors. I bought the boat based on what i have been told by others but wonder how accurate these statements are. Everybody i talk to says its a fast boat?
Teddy:
There is a whole chapter in
Catamaran Racing for the 90
s" on the Prindle 19 by Randy Smyth. Won't help you on the spinnaker part, but should with setting up rest of boat.
Doug
if i recall correctly, Tornado masts are 31'
i sail a 5.5 with a 30' mast. i started with a H Tiger spin.. it fit ok but my pole was pretty high.
I now fly a T spin and my pole sits a little low and i have an inch of downward pre-bend in the pole.. and my spin luff is JUST barely tight enough..
I doubt you could rig it on an 29' stick.
I have sailed the P19,.. it was great.. i am sure you will enjoy it when you get it out.
We've got 1 P19 on our lake. It is the fastest cat I've seen. I'm sure the majority of that is the skipper, but its still quite impressive.
The MX package is definately the way to go. Glaser sails has a very good guide for rig tuning and sail adjustment. It's a fast and forgiving boat. I didn't realize how resistant it was to pitchpoling until I sold it and bought a Blade. I never used a spin on it but there's a lot of spaghetti on it with the barber hauler, 4-way jib lead adjustment etc... The newer style rudders are much better.
I have two sets of rudders...One set is the 18 Square tip type and the other set is a rounded rudder. I assume the rounded tips are the newer model?
Hi Turbo Cat,
I too have a P19, since 1991, you may wish to research some of my past posts here on
Cat Sailor
where I have discust the P19 and some modifications for a
MX
rig for strength and also the
new
eliptical tip rudder blades .... and how to repair them when they split from the rudder head on down ....
Wait until the first time when you are on a screaming reach .... and you are making rainbows .... awesome!!!!!!
Hey Todd,
I was at Tred Avon YC yesterday for a Junior Regetta ... as I stood there I could just visualize the beach full of cats and the anchorage full of boats after the NASS Race ... the picture w/ my P19MX in it is still hung in the Entrance Way in the lobby. Hope you guys are coming ... see you then
Harry
H18Mag/P19MX
That beach still covered in pea-gravel and oyster shells?
I'd pull my laser up on that beach no problem, I'd cringe when pulling the 20 up on it <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />
Harry,
I went back and did some digging through your post's. I went through all 31 pages and came up with the following:
Bottum Job
http://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubb...
rudders
http://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubb...
I didnt look at each post so im sure i missed some info. I looked at the items with P19 in the title and found the threads i posted above. Anyway you can link the
Structural mods
you were speaking of?
Thanks
Ted
I am thinking that Smyth sails are the way to go since he had a hand in designing the boat from what ive read. I am sure he has the most experience with the P19 sails? I have Smyth rags on my 5.2 and love them.
i sail a 5.5 with a 30' mast. i started with a H Tiger spin.. it fit ok but my pole was pretty high.
I now fly a T spin and my pole sits a little low and i have an inch of downward pre-bend in the pole.. and my spin luff is JUST barely tight enough..
I doubt you could rig it on an 29' stick.
I have sailed the P19,.. it was great.. i am sure you will enjoy it when you get it out.
Tornado stick is under 30'...29 and change. The max luff length on the spin is also a factor of where the halyard block sits alone the mast relative to the tack block on the pole, the pole length also contributes (4 meters from tack block to front of beam is the limit) and finally mast rake.
The F18 chute is smaller and flatter...so it will perform better sailing closer to the wind. This can make it fast in races like hte Tybee where you're broad reaching all day long. But, on proper windward/leeward courses, the N20 is faster at deeper angles, and the Tornado faster still. Though the T spin is not cut deep like the old cut of the N20. I think the superior downwind (& up) performance of the T comes mainly from the extra beam.
The P19 is a mini Tornado...hull shape & bow design are nearly identical to the T. Rigging is straight off the the classic T. Even has centerboards like the T, though they appear to be even less capable then the relatively poor performing blades of the T.
I once hopped aboard a P19 for a short sail off the beach with it's new owner. I was impress with how similar it felt to the T. Within a few minutes we were the fastest boat moving that day, passing all comers including a 20 ft Mystere and several Hobies and even two rather beat up/delapidated old Tornado's.
How did you get the deck off?. I recently heard some cracking noises while righting my P19 aft of the centerboard well. I think it was delaminating inside, however, no way to check it it out and if thats the case then I am looking at also removing the deck which Im not looking forward to do.
I recently set the boat w/ an F18 spinnaker and end pole snuffer, I have been loooking for a while for Tornado spinnakers/mainsails but no luck. F18 parts are more readily available. The main problem I had was the attachment of the support pin at the front crossbar. The pin (I think its a nacra standard) has a base with 4 attachment points, but due to the mast base casting it cannot be placed at the beam center. I secured it with two screws on the top two holes tapped into the the lower portion of the casting. For a pole Im using discarded Sunfish spars I can get free from a local sailing club (learned that trick while reseaching the P19 on this site), however I have gone through two already and I am currently searching for a windsurfing mast.
Good luck
A thin chisel or paint scrapper, and a hammer!
Be ready to take a mold off of the other hull's deck if you wreck this one getting it off
VMG is correct. I used a Putty knife with a thin blade. I tried several tools and the thin putty knife worked the best for me. I started at the front and worked my way backwards. It came off pretty well and didnt get too messed up. You can order new decks from Performance for $98 each. I ordered new ones rather than making my own since i dont know alot about glass. After i reinforce the hulls im thinking of smoothing the bows. My 5.2 has had the bow decks filled and its stiffer than stock and looks great! I am still trying to decide if i want to go this direction though because once they are filled and smoothed future repairs are much harder since you cant just remove the deck and order a new one.
TAKE PIXS. And, is that $98 for a set or just one?
Tornado stick is under 30'...29 and change.
wow... we have a few mystere6.0's with t masts and i was told they are 31... odd
According to Tornado.org waterline to top of mast max is 9800mm or 32.15 feet. What does the typical tornado measure from waterline to mast base?
TAKE PIXS. And, is that $98 for a set or just one?
That is PER side. $98 for each deck
The decks am assuming are three part?. Forward of the front beam, center section and the little square portion aft of the rear beam. For $98 I think its a good price. I am also guessing theres a lip or surface where you can lay the new deck and epoxy to the hull.
I would hate to think he is talking the front only? They probably have to make them special for this order.
The front decks are $98 each. These are the decks in front of the crossbar. 1 piece $98. They dont stock these old parts so yes they are semi special order. Apparently they still have the molds and make them per order.
PICS WILL BE UP SHORTLY!!!