Tell me about the Prindle 19

The decks separated into skin and structure when i removed them

This pic is looking forward into the hull and shows the horizontal bracing in the front section

Here is a close up of the brace

looking back from the bow...Showing the bulkheads

Close up

Looking forward
<img src="http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q49/LT280z/IMG_1629.jpg" alt="" />

Looks like ive got some sanding to do...Alot of the deck was left on the rail
<img src="http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q49/LT280z/IMG_1631.jpg" alt="" />

So my question is should the boat be braced like the front between the rest of the bulkheads? I would assume not since it wasnt designed that way but i want this boat to last me a long time so my ears are open. I dont want to take any shortcuts and want to do it right, do it once, and be done with it. I have another boat to sail so this project will not be rushed. Give me your opinions and let me know what u think.

I have been on other prindles that have flexy decks so i intend to add some bracing of some sort to support the deck more than it is now. The decks are held on by the edge only and seem to flex when stepped on. I would rather the decks feel solid and firm with little to no flex.

I made the under deck support on my Stingray by putting 3 inch strips of divinacell foam inside the hulls just under the lip. I cut them longer than the gap so they flexed up to match the deck then put a bit of tape on with resin as I put the deck on. I also added another layer of divinacell foam under the decks.
Since you are doing a special order have you considered asking them to do a double layer of foam or layer of carbon underneath the decks? The lips are firm enough, keep an eye on the weight your adding.
regards

Something else to think about, and maybe I didn't catch this earlier, and that is put in some tangs for you spinnaker bridals similar to what is being used on the Inter boats.

Check out the photo section on the Tornadocat Yahoo forum...there's a nutty Aussie rebuilding his glass T boat in his living room. He's added lots of reinforcing including deck frames and gunwale stringers.

TornadoCat Forum Photo Gallery

Thanks for all the help so far guy's! I plan to start working on the boat next week so keep the idea's coming.

Hi TurboCat,

I'm not very good w/ computers, so I don't know how to

link

..... but if you pull-up my posts and then look only at the P19 related ones you should find out what I've learned over the years. Please pay close attention to the posts about reinforcing the front crossbar (internally) as the number of front crossbars failing at the point where the dolphin striker ends is increasing as the aluminum crossbars are experiencing

fatique

failures.

To

stiffen

up the foredeck I would suggest installing a vertical web(s) on the underside of the deck before re-installation of the deck ... you will need to notch the bulkheads for clearence. Yes, I would install a subdeck in the front crossbar area ... this will prevent the bows from toeing in (feel for whipples/waves on the hulls just in front of the front crossbar on the in-board side). I took a simplier route by using a Nacra 6.0NA Bowfoil to prevent

toe-in

but this limits the angle of the spinpole to a very low attitude/angle. But it does works w/ a Tornado 25sqM chute since you need the luff length.

Send me a

PM

here on this forum and I'll answer your questions. FYI: Todd (Team Cat Fever)also has just a wee bit of experience on a P19 before he became a traitor and sold his to purchase a N20 .... we had many good times racing against each other (and drinking Beer) for a number of years.

Hi Tad (Thad?),

No, the beach at Tred Avon is not Oyster shells any more ... it is SAND ... it does have a nice angle of pitch, nothing to bad though. Now the parking lot and the pathways around the clubhouse are gravel ... ooch-ouch ... So we'll see you in September???? I maybe on Triple Threat aqain, if we get the spinpole that we tore off the deck in the

Around Long Island Race pounding through some big seas re-installed and fix the hole in the deck also. Todd saw her when he came up to Solomons Island a few weeks back for

The Screwpile" Regatta ... ask him what he thought about her. If not I'll be back on either my TheMightyHobie18 or P19 depending on who is crewing (most likely the P19)

Harry

Harry you can just paste (or type) the link in here with your copy..
www.msnbc.com

Not sure where the 29' measure comes from on the T mast. I measure from the top to the bottom of the mast section (not including the base) of a marstrom untapered aluminum section, 30'- 10 3/4". Now the luff of the sail may be around 29' but mast is about 31'.

The T chute and the N-20 chute may be the same area but the N-20 is a class sail built by one manufacturer. The T sail can be made flat or full and by anyone as long as it measures in.

I stand corrected. For the carbon T, class rules state:

Mast Length - -
Upper point height - 9294 mm = 30.49' Note this refers to the upper measurement band max height (head of sail cannot be above this line), not the overall length of the mast.

I think I was recalling the dimension between the upper & lower measurement bands, which is 8915mm or 29.25'.

What material should i use for the sub decks? Foam wrapped in glass i assume. Attaching them to the inner hull is pretty self explanatory.

Im thinking a polyester resin would be favored over epoxy?

Use epoxy but tell anyone that wants to know thats its polyester, they may start waving some ancient class rule at you if you race it!

Something else to think about, and maybe I didn't catch this earlier, and that is put in some tangs for you spinnaker bridals similar to what is being used on the Inter boats.

This is a good idea and will definitively save you some headaches down the road

Yes it is. I planned to add these so i could avoid the whole

Drill & Fill

technique commonly used for the spin. I have done the drill & Fill and it works fine..But this will look much cleaner and probably hold up alot better. Keep the ideas coming! I almost have my game plan down.

On a non structural/Glass note: I was wondering about installing grommets in the tramp and a line under the tramp similar to my 5.2 and getting rid of the jib system on the P19. It really clutters up the tramp so im sure others have done something to declutter the tramp. Any ideas or pictures?

Which size jib do you plan to use?

The MX jib was a solution for down wind sailing in sloop mode configuration... If you plan to use the spin for down wind sailing... then... no need for the oversized jib. (it actually would hurt you) You also get to dump the barberhauler system.

Maximizing the jib for upwind sailing means you will go with a higher aspect jib which allows you to put self tacking hardware on the front beam and clean the tramp up considerably.

If you are keeping the standard jib... then you can consider sheeting to a couple of points on the tramp.

if you plan to use the mx or standard jib and replace the inboard sheeting system with grommets... Make sure you upgrade the tramp material to handle the loads and have a means to really tighten it up. The Aussies used a really thick tramp mesh and were able to really tighten the tramp up from one side and the rear without pulling it out of the boat on the Tornado. If you don't get the tramp almost rigid... energy is lost from the jib stretching the tramp on each puff.

Finally, you should consider your sheeting point for the spin on the boat. It will be determined by the spin cut and luff length. Possibilities include the shroud attachment point. the existing jib track or the tramp lacings.

Reinforcing the front cross beam is very important. The shape and the size of the beams on modern spin boats are much bigger then the P19 section. Big beams work to keep the boat stiff. You might consider a new third party front beam since you have the decks off already. A carbon tube from Australia is remarkably cheap (i am told) and could solve your problem.

Note the comment about finding room to attach a spin pole end fitting on the front beam.

Note.. the buoyancy of the P19 bows is not great and so keeping weight out of the nose is important.... not having to go with a nacra type bow foil is important.

Finally... every P19 I have sailed had these cracs in the deck in front of the dagger board wells. Everyone reports that this fix is a pain in the butt. Take a look at this spot.

Lot of work ahead... glad you enjoy it!

Mark,
I dont have the cracks in front of the dagger wells. All is well there. I am considering the standard jib for now in the beginning. I may actually wait to install the spin and just get used to the way the boat feels and handles at first. However any mods that need to be done for the spin will be done now so i dont have to do anything twice.

I like the idea of a carbon tube but that doesnt sound cheap. Do you have any info on these tubes? I do have a extra set of crossbars if that helps? I read earlier that Hmurphy used a spare cross bar cut into pieces inside his existing beams.

There is a local guy that has his jib sheeted to the tramp and im supposed to be getting pictures of his set-up.

Mark,
I dont have the cracks in front of the dagger wells. All is well there. I am considering the standard jib for now in the beginning. I may actually wait to install the spin and just get used to the way the boat feels and handles at first. However any mods that need to be done for the spin will be done now so i dont have to do anything twice.

Yep... it's all about the master plan.
Adding the full subdeck will help the fiberglass with the spin.

Harry's reinforcement of the cross beam will stop it from breaking but won't help the structural problem of the bows pinching in.... He used the bow foil for that issue... tradeoff weight on the nose, cost and hindering the spin pole location.

I would decide on your spin pole and spin.
The higher you carry the spin pole... the less load you have on pinching the bows. but with a fixed luff length of the spin you obtain... you have to go higher and higher on the mast for the spin bale. The Tornado chute fits on the Prindle with a long pole... The F18 chute might be a better choice. I thought the T chute was a bit too much for the boat.... with out the T's beam... you really only had one gear down wind on the 19 which was a little deep.

At some point the costs could push you to a new boat or a new to you modern spin design.

I like the idea of a carbon tube but that does'nt sound cheap. Do you have any info on these tubes? I do have a extra set of crossbars if that helps? I read earlier that Hmurphy used a spare cross bar cut into pieces inside his existing beams.

No info.. Our local A cat builder speced some tubes recently and commented that they were surprisingly affordable.... The right beam plus a dolphin striker solve your bow foil issue.

There is a local guy that has his jib sheeted to the tramp and im supposed to be getting pictures of his set-up.

You can put some reinforcement patches on a standard tramp and put the grommet there and it will work just fine.... How well. (speed and performance tradeoffs) are the issue

just cause it looks like what the tornado is doing... does not make it equivalent.

Also... keeping the standard jib means that you will be able to have some vision to leeward of you... the deck sweeper mx jib... really left a huge hole... tough situation if you want to race buoys'.

Use Epoxy

Dude!!! You be Pimping this Ride big time, PIX PIX and more PIX.

Have fun, your giving me idea's for my 18-2

I will take alot of pics and will be making a video too. I want to help others out any way i can so this should help. I am going to video the removal of the other deck early next week when the new units arrive. I love taking pics so this shouldnt be a problem! I figure if its well documented maybe some of the old 18-2's and P19's that are sitting there rotting away may get fixed up if they have a decent video and picture album to look at and half way understand what to do.

The decks arrived from Performance so i will have some new pics up tonight. They made a center type stringer that should work out nice.

I cant believe its been 6 months already! Ive been slacking off big time. In August i bought a Yamaha R1 (sportbike) and have been riding it as much as possible. The last post on this thread was right about the time i got the bike....Funny how that works.

Back to business!

Last time i posted i think the decks were still n the way. I received the decks from Nacra and was a bit disappointed. When i opened the long cardboard boxes i found the ends of the decks were a bit crooked. The packing job was not great by any means.

Now lets talk about the tubes/reinforcement that Nacra said they would add. I am fine with the overall design and think that they are better than the old style. When i removed the decks from the box i pulled out 4 pieces. The reinforcement pieces had completely fallen off one of the decks. Glad that didnt happen in the hull.

So at this stage of the game im wondering if i should leave them as they are or revise the design?
If i leave them how they are now i will have to slightly notch the bulkheads so they sit flush. I was thinking about removing the tubes from the other deck too. I could notch the bulkheads and resin and glass them in nice and sturdy if they were off the decks. When installing the decks i can lay resin on the original lip and the new tube at the same time and glue them down. I think they may make a bunch of noise in the hull if i dont glue the tube to the bulkheads. I have to notch the bulkheads either way to fit the tubes so i just figured i may get a stronger bond this way. What do yall think?

I have all the materials and am ready to start work asap. I actually sanded on the boat for a while earlier trying to get all the resin and left over glass off the inner lip of the hull. 3 or 4 more hours of tedious sanding on the inner lip and i should be ready to start the next step.

P19s need reinforcement for use with a spinnaker to keep the bows from pinching. I had a couple of them the last of which was very tricked out. Unfortunately, I didn't make any structural improvements. One day sailing to weather the hull snapped in half at the cross beam. Here's a picture taken earlier on that fateful sail.

I have the Smyth Pentex main with foam battens in excellent condition if you are interested.

I am interested. Is it an MX?

Why dont you just fiberglass the tubes to the deck?. I'll post pixs of my P19 sunday, its also in a similar situation, but when I removed the deck I also took along with it the hull lip.

The boat is coming along nicely! I took the boat by a local fiberglass/boat repair shop the other day to see what they would charge me to sand the lips and glue the decks down. They quoted me $700 PER SIDE to sand them down and glue the decks on and kept telling me it would take days to sand the lips properly. One hours time, a angle grinder and several sanding discs and i was done with one side! I cant believe it only took an hour. The outside of the boat is faired and ready for paint at this point. Tonight i will sand the other side and prep for the deck installation. I have to go to the local fiberglass supplier today to pick up the Divinycell and more supplies. If i can keep this pace going this thing will be painted and floating in a month or so!

Good luck with the work.

Thanks Mike. It is actually going alot easier than expected. Thanks for all the help on the phone the other day. I appreciate the offer to send some foam my way too.

Heres my P19 also with decks removed. I was not able to separate the deck from the hull leaving the lip intact. Now I'll have to find a way to bind them together with epoxy and a thickenning agent. I am adding a bulkhead halfway between the front bulkhead and the bow as I was getting delamination on the inside hull. I think due to standing and walking along the hull to right it

Im not a boat builder and dont know the best solution for your problem...BUT, if i was was dealing with it i would do the following.

Rip a piece of core foam (corecell, Divinycell, etc) on a table saw to about 3 inches wide. Wrap it in glass and epoxy resin. Glue it to the inner edge of the hull creating new lips. Then run a few strips of glass wrapped foam on top of the stringers creating a base for the decks to sit on.

I dont know alot about boat construction so i could be totally off.

MIKE HELP!!!! TheManShed is a true builder and he can point you in the right direction i would think. He has helped me out and doubt he would have a problem giving you some suggestions.

I replied to your PM. Let me know!