I sent Mike a PM to see if he had any ideas on the best angle of attack.
After debating how to repair the soft sides opposite the centerboard I just attacked it with a multi tool. You can see the craks on th einterior surface. That portion of the hull is foam with a single fiberglass cloth layer.
This is the interior surface with the cracked fiberglass
Finally
Whoa! Your really getting right in there...I assume you know how to repair that? If not i have a good hobie pdf that outlines the process. Can you take a picture of the interior top lip where the tramp rail screws in? Im trying to determine how thick the aluminum plate is and how long it is. Also trying to figure out how deep the rivets go into it. Ive looked at it with a mirror but a pic to compare would be nice.
Hello Bob, Wondering if you still have the Smyth Pentex Main/battens? I'm looking for a replacement sail for my Reynolds 21. My email address is chrispark@mistymountainfurniture.com. Hope to hear from you. thanks! Chris Park
Send the hobie repair file to see if I get new ideas. Ill send a pix of teh interior lip later today, its a kind of foam strip fiberglassed onto the deck lip area.
Bob me too. If I can ever put the boat back together
ferminj
Those cracks don’t look too good. It looks like it is on the panel that you cut out so the repair will easy to get at. The cracks have to go away you will need to grind the foam out clear through to the outer skin. Make sure you get all of the damaged foam removed then about ½ inch on each side of the crack taper the foam about a 30-degree angle outward towards the inner skin. Then I would lay-up two layers of unidirectional cloth about 6-8 oz weight tying the outside skin to the inside skin. You can fill the void with a bog made epoxy and a filler chopped glass and fill in the void level with the inner skin then lay-up one or two layer of over the patch area to pull it all together overlaying the area by several inches. Look on the outside of the hull my guess if you have kind of damage on the inside you have cracks on the outside also, or maybe it's just soft there.
You need to build a lip for the deck lid. That is going to take some creativity. Looking at the picture the flange needs to be curved in shape. I would make it out of solid glass and you need to try to tie into the top and bottom of the damaged area if you can. You’ll need to grind into the area near the opening to get a good bite into the old glass, perhaps 2 inches. Looking at Turbocat’s picture of the new laminates, I take it you are going to get new laminates? If not, even the old laminates I’d mold off of them. Look at the picture of the new decks as they sit sailing side down there is flange around the edge of the laminate. Use a good quality duct tape and tape off the edges both sides top and bottom. Cut some cardboard from a big box and extend the edge of the flange out several inches as needed to tie into the flat part of the deck, you will need to go further but that will be the next step. Tape the cardboard to the side of the deck that is the actual top as it sails. So as you are looking at the picture in the post you have the upside deck lid (tubes up), tape, the deck lid, tape, cardboard. If you make the cardboard flange you can actually fit it in the hull to check for fit. Once you have your cardboard flange taped down to the deck tape out the cardboard. Wax everything with mold wax it you have it if not a paste car wax. If needed you can make the flange in pieces. I’d lay-up a flange with enough thickness to equal what was there. Now that the flange is made you need to attach the flange to the hull. Make sure you use Acetone or the like to remove the wax and sand some to skuff it up. I like pop-rivets or drywall screws just a few to hold it in place and dry fit everything. Grind and fit as needed. Once everything fits all right, remove the pop-rivits or screws, and glass in the flange you made and overlap it some in the hull on the top and bottom.
There is one other way but it may be more work and that is to cut a few access holes in the inner side of the hull to work through and glass it up directly then patch the holes with flanges. I had to do that with my G-Cat because the deck is one piece. I have some pictures on my website of making a flange repair http:/
West systems has CD called How - To Basic application, fiberglass/composite repair, and gelcoat blister repair using their products Catalog Number 002-898 it was free at West Marine for awhile when you purchased some West Systems Products. It is general information for all repair work.
Mike
Mike, thanks for the help. As it is, the decks do still mount on to the small remaining lip so I may be able to epoxy the hull to deck without building the lip all around.
For the cracks I started by removing the fiberglass cloth at the cracks around on in and then filling with thickenned epoxy, 1 in strip of fiberglass tape, then two and a 3 in over the previous two. Then two layers of cloth and it seems pretty sturdy.
Turbocat, pixs of the interior lip of the P19 with the tramp rivets and jibtrack screws visible.
so no aluminum in there? Thats pretty strange. On older Nacra 5.2's i think that foam piece was aluminum? I figured the rivets and screws would need more to bite into than foam covered in glass.
ferminj, Thanks to your pics we can now see the inner workings of the boat. This is the best P19 thread ive ever seen! With all the pics on this thread it should be easier for the next guy to fix his p19!
Shoot me your email and ill send that hobie repair article
No Al, I think my rivets were a bit loose and I'll have to either epoxy a washer under the accessible ones or fill the hole with epoxy and redrill. My ultimate goal would be a dry as dust hull. The seems sturdy at that part, what I dont comprehend is the 9 or 10 ft between the front xbeam and the bow tip with no bulkheads.
ferminj,
What year were your hulls made????
I believe they added some additional internal reinforcements after the first several years production ... maybe in the 88-89' timeframe???? But I'm not sure since I've never personally seen for myself the internal structure of the later produced boats ... only heard rumors ....
FYI: My boat was produced in 1986.
Harry
P19MX/Sail#86
The detail sanding is taking some time. Im trying to leave the original interior lip intact and in good shape so ive been taking it nice and slow. The foam should be here any day and the other materials are ready to go.
Ferminj,
If you look at your pics and my pics you can see that you have an additional bulkhead in the rear and the spacing is different from mine. Your hull must be a newer hull.
Ill have more pics up this weekend!
OK more pics will be uploaded tonight after work. Ive done alot in the last week but still have a bit to do before this old boat is ready. If all goes as planned this boat will be in the water next weekend.
I plan on rigging the boat back up and sailing it a couple times before the paint job. I want to sail it and evaluate the power before i run out and order a new main and jib. The chute got rigged last night and looks to be in the right position. I made up a line type bail rather than the normal wire bale so hopefully it will last and not pop the line right away.
Pics!
Ill get them up asap. This has been a crazy week and the boat has been put on the back burner. Im going to pick up a pair of hulls tonight as well as a mast so i will not have time for pics tonight. I will get some pics up this weekend for sure.
Ive been playing with ways to stiffen up the beams too so ill post up my ideas and see what you guys think the best angle of attack is. Beam in beam, cnc'd inner sleeves, tigging on a additional pice of aluminum to the top, etc.
I know the last post on this thread was back in 2010. I need some advice. TurboCat, I think we both live in the Houston area. I was sailing Galveston Bay today and it was blowing 20 with gusts and choppy. My 1987 Prindle 19
I thought
was very solid. It looks like a new boat. The starboard bridle wire tang, the point where it attaches to the hull snapped off. Looks like metal fatigue. It didn't pull through, there is no glass damage to the hull. How do I make this repair? I'm guessing the deck is going to have to come off. I have no idea what this tang has
inside
the hull. I'm also thinking that if the starboard one failed then the port side should also be looked at and replaced. Can I find these parts and how do I make the repairs? Any help is much appreciated. I'm freaking out at the thought of taking it to a glass shop, looks like $$$$.
Thanks in advance
Morris
Seabrook, TX
#1 I would look at why there would be metal fatigue? If the bridle is pulling at some new angle other than what it was designed for, then that would have to be addressed. If you want to fix this right you will have to cut some holes in the hull. I like to use a rotary grinder/sander with a 6
wheel you put 36 grit paper on it and grind a hole under and around the broken tang for about 4 to 6 inches below it. That gives you enough room to work and maybe get the broken off tang out of the hull. It also gives you a feathered edge from which to re build the hull. If you can find a fiber optic device and fish that into the hull under the tang, that might help to diagnose the fix too, and see what the best plan would be where to go in, etc.
If you haven't done much fiberglass work yourself you might want to get a book on the subject from the library. One good one is
The Gougeon Brothers on boat construction
or
Fiberglass Boat Repair & Maintenence" also from Gougeon brothers /West System epoxy.
It's no fun, but it's possible.
I don't know anything about the Prindle but the angle of the existing bow tang should give you an idea of how it will be mounted. If its flat verticle it may be as simple as bolted to a bulkhead and that would be a relatively easy fix once in the hull. When cutting into the hull make sure you don't make a cut on top of a bulkhead as you wont be able to get your arm in the hole
My wag is remove the deck say 3" or less one or both sides of tang/bulkhead.
As the replacement/new deck may be easier area to build back vs trying to rebuild the hull.
Corrosion? Look for hairline cracks on ss in the other one.
I have replaced a few, they are shaped like a cross with the horizonal piece shaped the same as where the hull and deck meet. The fitting is glassed in position. I used a 6 inch hole saw (in reverse) on the opposite hull side to gain access. Save the cutout, Ground away the glass removed, installed the new part, held it in place using vise grips on the outside of the hull, glassed in. Repaired the hole using the cutout and a backing.
for backing to reinstall the hole, cut short popsicle sticks and glue them to the inside of the hull to make a
shelf
for the cutout to sit against. Use cloths pins clips to hold the sticks to the hull while the glue dries (epoxy or polyester resin) and be careful not to get any resin on the sides of the opening so your cut-out will fit back in without issue. Then mix up some more thickened resin and put it to the sticks and the edges of the opening (lightly). fit the cut-out back into the hull and rotate it back and forth to squeeze out the resin and get it at the same level as the outer surface of the hull. Tape it into position and let it firm up. With a small ziplock bag, fill it again with more thickened resin and just nip off a corner of the bag with scissors or a razor blade. Use this to squeeze in some more thickened resin around the perimeter of the repair filling the gap between the hull and the plate like icing a cake. This resin should be the thickest of them all - nearly like peanut butter in consistency. Scrape away any excess and let this cure. Then, with a side-angle grinder and a flapper sanding disk, I would sand around the perimeter of the repair you just made and dig into the fresh resin creating a little dished out area to lay in some new fiberglass to join the outer skin back together. Cut a bunch of fiberglass pieces and start to build the shallow U-notch you made back out slightly beyond the outer surface of the hull. Let it cure, sand with palm sander, skim coat with some premium bondo, sand, fill pin holes, gelcoat.
Thanks for the replies guys, I wasn't sure if my question would be seen as this thread was from back in 2009. I posted up again as a new posting, hope this is not a problem. This seems like it is going to be a BIG undertaking and I have no glass experience. I read and reviewed the photos Turbocat posted, it just looks like removing the top deck will give the easiest access but I don't even know if I can still find new top decks. Plus, not even sure how to get the top decks off.
Thanks for the help.
Thanks for the help.
I think going in through the side is a better option. A hole-saw may not provide a large enough hole, you may be better off to use a jig saw and cut the access through the side of the hull, then reinstall the panel you cut out. Removing the decks is really hit or miss...you may break the deck and I really doubt you'll be able to find a replacement....then again, maybe fixing the deck would be easier than the hole option?
If you do use a jigsaw ,set the blade at 45 degrees so you cut the hole like the top of a Jack o' Lantern( \_/ ), then you have a larger stable gluing surface to re-mount the patch back on to. Makes fairing and finishing much easier, as well as a much sturdier repair.
I've removed a top deck before on another boat and it turned into a big job to get it tidy again. I would encourage you to do it through the side as the above posts by experienced people recommend. The more worried about your fibreglass skills the more you should go through the inside of the hull, even if you don't do a very good paint job on your repair nobody will notice it but your decks everyone will see. If you do manage to buy a new deck you need to trust your resin skills to glue it down with absolutely no gaps anywhere or it will suck water and it is very difficult to stop these leaks afterwards
I've done both and getting the deck off without tearing or breaking it is very hard (Apparently too hard for me) if you are going to try and get the deck off you need to use a heat gun and a putty knife ,but not get the glass too hot. The side is easier, will finish better (especially if you do the pumpkin cut) and is less apt to be under as high stress loads as the deck will be. Just make sure you have open access before you cut i.e. not cutting into a bulkhead.