Tethered to the boat?

I'm not really clear on the question.

The question is in regards to what Rick White said in his coverage today of the T500.

Do you think that the sailors in a W1k/T500 race should be required to be tethered to the boat?

(I would go edit the question, however it won't allow me to)

Rick who? And what did he say?

post edited to refect more complete information.

You should also have optional as a choice in my opinion. While I don't think its a bad idea, people shouldn't be forced to do it.

I'm still not clear. Are we voting on whether or not we think it should definitely be a requirement or

almost

should be a requirement?

And is it whether tether lines should just be required to be on the boats or that the sailors should be required to actually USE them?

I can see requiring the boats in a distance race to HAVE them, but there is no way to enforce making people use them.

I said tethers should be used. WE did a whole story on this in the past. No reason not to. Someone will die, if they don't
Rick

Ok, well I started this hoping to spur an educated discussion regarding this topic but nobody (outside of rick/mary) seems willing to put forth an opinion. I know this has been discussed before but it was several years ago.

The question is: Do you think the organizers should REQUIRE sailors to be tethered to the boat in races like the W1k and the T500? This is NOT chicken lines like most of us use, this is a straight up tether like the offshore boats use.

I for one, having been there would NOT want to be tethered to the boat. I was almost separated while rounding Cape Hatteras b/c my

skippers

route of egress involved jumping on my back like a monkey. This forced me underwater and under the

down

hull. Had I been tethered I would not have almost gotten separated but I know I would have untethered myself as I would have been being dragged along by the boat.

Additionally, I can see the tether getting in the way, tangled and causing me to not be able to take my preferred, most efficient or NECESSARY route around the boat during maneuvers. This could cause problems that might cause you to flip. Given the fact that we are going to be required to use traps with detachable hooks it's obvious that US Sailing and other governing bodies see entrapment as a real danger and anything that might cause that should be avoided.

Scenario: Spinnaker up, single trapped, big waves (6'+). Crew is trapped aft of the skipper. Surf down a wave, skipper fails to negotiate properly and stuff the bows hard. Your tether point is a central location in the middle of the tramp for use on both sides. You've just been launched forward and the boat flips. Where do you end up? Say you flip on your side, now your tether starts in the center of the boat but you've gone around the shroud and since the tether is a fixed length you're hanging by your tether from the shroud.

Or go more violent: I envision flying forward during a FAST pitch pole. tether pulls tight, boat goes over but instead of being free, your swung back into the boat by your momentum. Or you end up hanging between the hulls with the boat on it's side.

Or a situation like what happened to Chris Sawyer. clocking 23-25 mph with the kite up, trap loop breaks, you fall in and you get drug. What if the boat does not flip? I've drug behind mono's sailing before for fun. It does NOT take much speed for dragging to go from fun to dangerous. People will say,

but we'll use quick disconnects...

Try reaching your hands underwater while being drug at 5kts, let alone more. PDF or not, you're screwed if you can't get free.

I've been in both these scenarios and:
#1 I'll never sail with a skipper that I don't trust in a distance race again.
#2 I will and do use chicken lines that will release
#3 I won't tether. I think I'd rather float than fight to keep breathing. Several teams used rhino's for safety purposes and I'd rather that than this alternative.

As I sit here I can think of so many scenarios where you could get trapped by a tether....

Nevermind; I don't want to get involed in a discussion that asks whether or not you agree with the comments of the person who has provided the forum upon which you are asking for criticism on his comments.

I thought the

chicken lines

did keep you tethered to the boat. Am I mistaken? I've been thinking of clipping onto my mainsheet when solo sailing. Is this a bad idea?

There is no disrespect meant here.... this is a serious question with serious implications. Something that those of us who have and will do this race and others like it again at some time might have to face. I envision being in some of the situations I've been in w/o a tether and wonder how it could change the outcome for better or worse if there was one involved.

Agree or disagree, there is a basis for that feeling, what is the logic from whence it developed? There in lies my question.

I got the impression that you did NOT want discussion on the subject, since you said there had already been a lot of discussion about this topic. I think discussion and debate about this is great.

For my part, I just did not understand the question on the survey. That's all. Purely a semantics thing. Surveys are very difficult to phrase properly, just like political polls.

If the question had asked,

Do you think sailors should be required to USE tethers on long distance races?

, I would have had to answer no, because I don't think it is possible to REQUIRE anyone to use a tether or enforce that. But my answer would have made it sound like I am opposed to tethers, which I am definitely not.

If the question had asked,

Do you think sailors in long distance races should be required to have tethers aboard and connected to the boat?

, I would have said

Yes.

I think all sailors should be encouraged to use them offshore, and I think a tether should be part of the safety equipment.

It's kind of like life jackets. You can require all the sailors to HAVE them, but there is no way to enforce that they are going to actually WEAR them when they are out of sight.

That's silly, Gary. Our opinions don't carry any more weight on this forum than anybody else's. We LOVE to see debate on topics like this. Who cares what I think or what Rick thinks.

And with all the offshore sailing that you do, you are one of the best people to comment on this subject. You probably have in the past, but it never hurts to do it again.

Here's my $.02

We were mid-atlantic, sailing a 29' cat westbound. Checking for chafe on the foredeck on a beautiful moon-lit night, boat speed moderate, waves moderate, motion almost nil. As I started working my way aft, a small wave gave the boat a lurch and my leg pushed against the lifeline, producing maybe a 1 or 2 lb push. I was shaken then, and have been shaken ever since. What would have happened without that 1 lb push?

Regards
Chet

Some of the A-Cat sailors around here tether to the boat when they are out practicing. They use a Carabineer secured to their harness so they can clip the mainsheet in for the tether.

Dan DeLave

Half of the folks that might chime in on this topic are racing in the Tybee500 at the moment.

It is interesting about the a-cat guys, I've been wondering about how I can safely go out and practice on my own.

you may be talking more about simply righting a boat (even though them A-cats weigh less than my lunch) but The new SPOT GPS system is very cool and not so pricey ($150+ $99-$150 year service)

SPOT GPS USA TODAY ARTILCE

Not worried about righting it - worried about falling off it and getting separated. For the good of the boat and of me.

Area D South - even superhero types are suseptible. Robbie falls of new A-cat in moderate conditions on the way to the first start, A-cat sails away until crashing into a seawall. End of event for Robbie. <img src=

alt=

/>

2 weeks ago i saw a guy fall off his Dart18 and it took off. I picked him up and chased down his cat.

Later he talked about using a retractable dog leash as a tether..

What do people usually use and where do they teather to?

Ditto here!!! I took a P16 out last night by myself and even though I can right the boat single handed, I still tethered myself to the boat in the same method that Dan had mentioned.

See, I'm not looking at this as an

I'm macho, I don't need it

thing. It looks to me like more of a safety hazard than a preventative.

Here is typical equipment used for tethers.
http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d312000/e310335.asp

Note that on big boats the tether is intened to never allow you to leave the boat. You should be tied such that you can't make it all the way to the water. On our boats we're required to get out beyond the hull, hence typical tether mentality does not work here.

So... say Robbie was tethered... but the boat didn't flip. How does that story end?

I tried a tether a few times and it was easy to use and didn't get in the way. For length probably 10'?

I think that the potential of injury caused by a tether is far less than the potential life or boat savings. I just can't see any obvious ways that the tether could hold you under. Worst case scenario, just slip off your harness. (if you wear your harness over top of everything else)

I think in that particular case with the carabineer and mainsheet setup, in moderate conditions, the boat would have rounded up and flipped, saving his event. I think it should be left to the sailor's discretion to use a tether-like setup or not. Sometimes I'd want to have that second chance to get back to the boat (I used something like that on the 4.3 for distance racing) and other times I can see offshore Tybee/Worrell sailors (one of which I am not) absolutely not wanting to be secured to a cartwheeling boat that is tumbling downwind in a whiteout squall. That's why there are locator beacons and strobes on every sailor and not attached to the boat.

You could use a quick release that could be undone under load to escape being dragged.

We used something similar to the Wichard system. We took about 15 feet of 5/16" line, removed the core, inserted bungee inside, and attached a snap shackle to the end. The bungee kept the line length short on the boat, and snap shackle allowed you to release yourself under tension if you got tangled up. Never fell off the boat and used them...

I know this is a fear that people seem to have, but has anybody ever heard of this actually happening to anybody -- boat cartwheeling multiple times while they were tethered?

People know the dangers of what they are doing. If they don't want to be attached and want to watch their boats sail away with out them then I say let em'. I think being tethered is an excellent idea when there isn't another boat, or help readily available, but requiring something is another story.

It is all in the way you word it I guess.
Would or should it be

Suggested

?

Recommended

? or

Required

?

If it is required and the tether itself causes an unfortunate outcome as outlined in previous posts is the organizing authority liable because they

Required

the tether that caused the problem?

If you burn up in a firey car crash, is the government liable beacause it is against

the law

to drive a car without a fastened seatbelt?

Maybe we should also include a rule that sailors be

required

to wear helmets.... I'm sure many more sailors have been knocked silly by the unexpected jybe than have been seperated from their boat because of not having a tether.

We could argue both sides of the issue till we are blue in the face (no pun intended for you cold water sailors) and still not have the perfect one size fits all answer.

I say that the regatta organizer consider the issue, make a

suggestion

or a

recommendation

, and then leave it up to the individual sailor as to what he/she decides to do in any particular set of circumstances.

Sailors by their very nature are independant thinkers and resent/resist being TOLD what to do.