I have rescued experienced A-cat sailors who were unexpectedly abandoned by their boats in a smart breeze and big waves: Charlie Johnson said he was
flicked like a bugger off your finger
in a fast pitchpole. Swimming in the middle of Galveston Bay for hours is not my idea of fun- right, Bob?
A-cats probably won't drag the skipper dangerously after crashing if you are tethered, but a capsized A-cat will definitely go away faster than you can swim in wind. They ain't no handles on the top of the sail- Zip- you slide down it- and the cat is gone! I keep my mainsheet wrapped around a hand: cat's lack of weight and momentum is good in this case. Sailing with a buddy to keep your eye on is also a safety item.
How about a retractable type tether that connects to the trap wire. If you get seperated, the trap bungee will snap and allow plenty of room for the sailor to stay clear of the boat until he/she regains composure. (?)
Eric
and.. the weight of a sailor in the water attached to the houndswill force a boat to capsize. No risk of being dragged under if the boat trys to sail away because the hounds are 28 feet in the air.
I was thinking about this just the other day. I want to be able to sail solo or with inexperienced crew, and do it safely.
What's the best way to tether yourself in such a situation? Put a carabiner on the end of the mainsheet and clip it to your harness? I guess a hangmans-noose bungee'd off the trapeze for the crew, right 😉 I'm looking for instructions, because I have no idea how it's generally done, much less, what works.
Dennis
Dennis, 2 thoughts on your post
1. I always attach my bitter ends of my mainsheet and traveler sheet so I can control them both from the wire (and so the main can't run out of the blocks). BUT perhaps a carabineer that simply runs freely through the main/trav attached to my harnes might work.
That being said... I have seen people fall overboard... hold the mainsheet... and as the boat takes off... they are pulled through the water and end up sheeting in the main... increasing the boat speed. I have seen people* dragged at 10knots... only to let go of their boat as it rockets off! -
Conversely after you sheet it in all the way (while being dragged though the water), if you are lucky... your boat can capsize without any weight on it. I am sure this is better that it taking off and hitting something.
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*I have done the mainsheet climb back up my boat 2 times.... both times I went for a swim were due to operator error, but it happens.
if you do clip yourself in, use a snap shackle, not a caribiner. You can't undo a biner under load but you can with a snap shackle.
good call ptp for sure snap shackle also note make sure the attachment point is somwhere on your front side above the nipples. you don't want to be dragged backwards. I used to use a heavy duty boggie board leash (forearm attachment). never had to use the boggie leash, but almost killed myself using a surfboard leash (ankle) getting draged backward until finally the boat rounded up. I know common sence.
The main goal to stay with the boat. If you are in the water, let the boat capsize. I think that remaining attached to the trapeze with the return bungee snapped offers safety and connection.
The hard part about this is when you reach that point of no return when you know you are going over. I am used to unhooking myself unconsciously from the trap so that when I do go over I have an exit strategy that doesn't involve going into/through the sail. That is my main issue with trying to tether myself to the boat. I sail in relatively protected waters so I have not really given it a lot of thought before. Robi described a system he uses with a snap shackle I believe which he thinks works pretty well. He shackles himself into the loop of mainsheet/traveler.
I can't go back and change my vote, even though the question has changed.
My answer to the present question,
Do you think that the sailors in a W1k/T500 race should be required to be tethered to the boat
is
no, I don't think that long distance racing contestants be required to do such a thing.
I require myself to tether to the boat when I am sailing distance ocean sailing and I always encourage my crew to do the same.
I've been in some situations where it did matter. If the worst had happened, then you'd all be saying how stupid it was of me to tie myself to the boat. As it is, I saved myself and helped to save my boat from being pounded by waves against big rocks.
It could go either way and that is why a sailor deserves to make his own decision. My experience in the conditions that I have sailed in will show that I should stay tethered. I can't speak for those sailing in different areas where the conditions differ from my local conditions.
I sail alone in the ocean, ... a lot! I wouldn't dare let that boat get away from me. Falling off unexpectedly, is exactly when that can happen. I have had some very close calls that could have ended up with me floating along on my PFD, miles from shore.
You should, at the least, keep a death grip on the main sheet. Insisting on not becoming separated from the boat has saved me from a 5-mile swim in 64ºF water a few times. (see DUMB butt maneuver, the Dragging Under My Boat, Automatic Sheeting System maneuver)
Think through all of the possible scenarios that you can envision, imagine. Find a way to deal with every scenario and be prepared to deal with all of those potential situations. Carry two knives, a VHF radio, a whistle, a mirror, and a flare or two. Don't forget a bottle of water too.
Two knives? Yes, carry one that is easy to get to and consider the fact that it will probably be gone because those easy to get to places are also
easy to get knocked off and go overboard places.
Carry a reliable back-up self rescue knife in a place where the water and wind won't steal it yet, a place where you can absolutely get it when you are all pumped up on fear-hormones.
Being an experienced underwater sportsman can be a good asset to have when it comes to self rescue from an open-water catamaran accident. Go do some body-surfing, scuba diving (NAUI 1972), skin diving, salvage diving, or other underwater sports or work that will train you to find your way out of an underwater tangle.
Being tied up in a surging kelp forest can be a very rewarding experience; particularly if you learn to escape without using a knife. Slow the panic and expedite the recovery! Get away smoothly without drowning.
Being tangled in rope, go for your knife as you find a way to get back to the surface and/or slither out of a tangle.
Yes, I do connect to the boat. You may or may not choose to do so. Think about what happens next and be ready to face the consequences of 'not wearing the tether' and also, those consequences of wearing it.
Don't be caught off-guard; have a survival game plan already in mind.
GARY
above the nipples???? Perhaps a hangman's noose around your neck? Attach to an earing? Through your nose?.... perhaps that part of the responce was intended for a different forum??? <img src=
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Don't you think that being dragged backwards (from above the nipples) might be even better? I'm thinking that when dragged forward there is an up swell of water created by the body through the water, that wants to charge right up your nose.
Backwards might create a low pressure area where you may have a chance to find some breathable air.
Any way you slice it though, draging in the water is far more dangerous that most people can envision.
I suggest that everyone do the trolling game. Hook up a tow line and take turns hauling one another through the water. The towee can signal the tower with a lifted hand, to stall the boat. The tower can watch the towee and stall when things look dangerous. All of this should be done with a life vest on so that the towee can let go at any time and float while recovering from ingested water.
You'll learn lots!
GARY
No tether.
I'm scared to death of getting left behind by a boat thats on its own (its happened to me before)
Even more scared of being keel hauled by it.
Just this past Tybee, one sailor tried to hang onto a righting line as the boat began to accelerate and the line pulled him underwater and eventually he had to let go. It only takes one gulp of water to drown. No way, no how, am I wearing a tether. I WILL carry a line with me that I can use for various purposes (like throwing over a sideways boat to the crew who might be hanging upside down on some rigging) but I really believe that a tether is more of a liability than not having one.
Alan carried a line bag that he could chuck to Trey in the event he went overboard. Its similar to the things that the kayakers use I think.
A good eye opener for this is to learn to barefoot (waterski with no skis). For those who have never tried it, here's a quick overview. For a deep water start, you hook your toes over the line, lay back in the water and get drug until the boat gets up enough speed for you to sit up, then stand up.
All this sounds good except once you start moving through the water you start getting pushed under. Your immediate reaction is to sit up to try to get air. By sitting up toward the surface, the water flow now forces you under water... very far under water. To get to the surface, you have to do the opposite of what your brain is telling you to do... arch your back as far as you can and that brings you to the top. The toughest part of this whole process is from 5 to about 15/20 mph. At those speeds you have to hold your breath because you don't have a big enough pocket of air above your head to breath. Once you're going faster than that, the water is starting to get firmer, you have a bigger air pocket and you can start to sit up a little.
I don't think too many of our cats when unmanned with a person dragging behind is going to accelerate past 20 mph to enable the tethered skipper to do a deep water barefoot start... or even a$$ skip across the water.
I suspect that being drug behind a ski boat would help a lot of you decide whether or not you really want to be tied to a boat doing 10 or 15 mph. Don't forget to try feet first too, just so you know what it will be like if you're tied on a little lower than your armpits.
This is starting to get wordy but one more thing to try. Remember the part about hooking your toes over the ski rope to get started... when falling off a cat, you won't have the luxury of first hooking your toes, then telling the driver to
hit it
. So just for giggles (or gurgles), try starting without your feet over the line, then once you're moving try getting your feet through the water and hooked back on the line so you can arch your back and plane to the top of the water.
Yes, there is a chance that the weight of the tethered skipper will tip the boat over, but I sure wouldn't want to be that person hooked to the boat by a line that I can't let go of.
That said, for you guys on bigger water, I don't know what the right answer is, but for me on my smaller inland lakes... I always have a life vest and at least a wet suit on, I'll drift/swim to one of the heavily populated shores where I can call for help from some vacationers house. I'll worry about getting the pieces of my boat back after I'm on dry ground.
I've spoken to a couple of Worrell/Tybee vet friends and have come up with the same answers from them. No.
I remember flipping once in a storm and looking at the GPS... it said 6 mph... while on our side!!!! If tethered in that situation you'd be drowned.
we made our righting line extra long so you could have a chance to grab on and hang on - but all it does is tow you unrecoverabley.
On my A-cat, I intend to clip the mainsheet to me through a quick release snap shackle. At least with the mainsheet as a tether, it will very likely flip the boat.
We use tethers similar to this, but not as long (about 8ft stretched out) - we'll only clip in if the weather is getting really big and we are a way off shore. They make me feel better - but I see it as a personal choice issue - do you want to drown attached to the boat or die of exposure because you lost contact with the boat and no one could find you? (try spotting someone in the water from the air)
The tethers clip to a spectra line strung across the tramp from the side shroud attachments. This gives us good freedom of movement when tacking or gybing .
What I haven't tried is releasing the tether while being dragged by the boat or hanging with full body weight on the tether. Does anyone have experience with this? Quick release shackles release easily when not loaded - but will they release with 190lbs load?
I've been dragged behind the boat and had to let go or drown. Luckily Jeremy from Surf City Catamarans was right next to me in a safety boat.
Perhaps we need to do some tether release experiments in controlled waters.
Chris.
How about just hanging a foot off the ground with a snap shackle... hold it... be back in a second...
I just put eye splices in some parellel core line for new halyards for my 31 (cheap line, but can't see spending 2$/ft for 80 feet x 3 <img src=
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Requires a little bit of a tug but it should work. 170lbs standing from the line. If the shackle doesn't release freely under no load (one of mine requires a little more force) then don't use it. If it opens freely then it should work.
Having done the Tybee 500 and quite a few distance races I can say that I would not want to be tethered to the boat from a central point.
However the jury is still out on if I would tether to the mainsheet with a quick release. That doesn't sound like a bad idea.
All I know is when I come off the boat the first thing I want is a breath of air. If I have to hold my breath for 10 seconds that's could be the last 10 seconds that I live. It just takes one errant gulp of water to kill you.
For example try running a mile and then holding your breath for 10 seconds. It's pretty hard. Panic sets in and could kill you.
I've also fallen off my share of boats. Even in distance races I'd rather take my chances swimming to shore or being rescued possibly with my locator beacon.
On big boats I'm all for tethering myself in bad weather. That's to keep me on the boat though. Not for falling off and being drug.
I say leave it up to the sailors. They'll find what works for them and use it.
Mike Hill
N20 #1005
Would it not be possible to rig the tether so it locks the steering over? One way or another the boat won't go that far before stopping.
Cheshirecatman
Tie it off to a tiller arm would be the easiest, but I bet you'd break something pulling it over that hard.
I was thinking tie it off to somewhere on the bow, so the boat will turn up into the wind and stop, or flip, once you hit the water. Of course in a big squall, even if (when) the boat flips, it's going to be going away from you at a pretty good clip, on it's side, but if you could get it to turn bows upwind, that might help slow it down.
I've been watching this thread with interest and have to say I wouldn't ever want to be tied to a cat. It just seems like another line to get wrapped around something (neck, wrist, leg etc) in a pitch and cause some real damage. I have rescued people with their mainsheet wrapped around their body and completely incapacitated (Hobie 16/20 North Americans).
But on the other hand...
At the Tiger Worlds in Santa Barbara, we rescued around 10 crews that were separated from boats over the course of racing. In 25 kts a boat on its side will travel waaaay faster than a person can swim. We would mostly spot the boat over from mid course and then head upwind to scoop the skipper and crew. It's very difficult to see people in the water in those conditions, even though we knew they were not far from our position. Oftentimes, one of the crew would still be with the boat and they would point us in the direction of the man overboard. It was pretty hectic. A teather might have been a good option in this case, but it just seems like a heck of a liability.
I did get several calls from people overboard on the VHF. They would guide me to their position. And pretty much every coast guard and harbor patrol boat has an RDF on board. A VHF in the lifejacket should be mandatory along with a few rocket flairs just in case, but I'm not convinced about the tether yet. Too much stuff to get tangled up in if you need a quick escape.
We're probably going to start doing this in the future - the Team of David Lennard and Mike Krantz used to carry waterproof smoke bombs in their pocket so that if separated, they could light one and the person on the boat could find them easier.
I never have and never will wear a tether when sailing 1-up. I dependent on the death grip on the mainsheet when the comes to that (and have done so in the past). It is also a reflex of mine to start swimming agressively towards the boat as soon as I hit the water.
Once or twice I've been pulled along halveway submerged when hanging on to the mainsheet by a boat that didn't immediately flip when I departed. I'm totally convinced that a skipper will not be able to unhook himself in such a situation when tethered by a carabine or something. With the death grip I can hang on as long as I can and then still let go if I have to.
A side effect of hanging onto the mainsheet is that you automatically pull the mainsheet tight which typically flips the boat after a few seconds if it doesn't flip immediately after I have
stepped off
.
I do sail singlehanded quite often and have done so in all conditions, mostly in 12knots and higher as those are typical conditions for us over here. And I have flipped it often enough to know the drill by reflex. Personally, I don't understand when people get seperated from the boat when singlehanding. As a rare occurance maybe but not in the numbers reported in this thread (A-cats / Tiger worlds)
Wouter
Wouter
I don't hear about it that much either, but as they say it only takes once. A guy spent 2 hours in the water (51 F) a few weeks ago after losing his H16. Sun was going down, harbor patrol found him around 7:30pm in a
severely hypothermic state.
That's a bit close for comfort if you ask me. A VHF and flares (at least here in SC) would have greatly increases his chances of survival.
The Tiger worlds in Santa Barbara was pretty extreme sailing to say the least. Ask anyone that was on the water <img src=
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About mid week I was so beat from plucking you guys out of the water that during a wonderful burrito dinner I had to go lay down in the car and fell asleep at 6:30pm. Highly uncharacteristic of me to miss a regatta party. <img src=
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Perhaps you should cut back on the burritos!!!
Perhaps you should cut back on the burritos!!!
Didn't even get to enjoy one bite <img src=
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