Tornado US Natls...poor turn out

Two Tornado's and you didn't show up?

Yeh...I'm guilty of that...but I'm not on the right coast

Far as I know the Tornado's that have raced this year and might have gone are:

Schneider Mark
Scace Greg
Scace Eric
Tuckfield Cris
Grandfield Mike

We were the no shows.
Do you know of anyone else?

Lambert was at the Steeplechase.

Take Care
Mark

I'm thinking of the Glaser's and Symth...but I guess they may not be active in the fleet these days.

I just remember going to CORK (Canadian Olympic Regatta Kingston) back in the '80's and having 30+ boats for the whole week. This past summer I think there were 3 boats there.

Pity about Greg Scace & his wife dropping their Olympic bid...due to finances & a job loss.

Is this a harbinger of class death?

I'm thinking of the Glaser's and Symth...but I guess they may not be active in the fleet these days.
True!

I just remember going to CORK (Canadian Olympic Regatta Kingston) back in the '80's and having 30+ boats for the whole week. This past summer I think there were 3 boats there.
True!

Pity about Greg Scace & his wife dropping their Olympic bid...due to finances & a job loss.
True!

Is this a harbinger of class death?
No... so long as its the Olympic boat... you will have a few teams taking their shot and they will be the the class.

On the other hand... don't expect them to run the class with you or I in mind... they are focused on their campaign and not class building or maintenance.

Have you heard of another Tornado besides yourself racing on the west coast?

Take Care
Mark

that is why peole migrate to affordable one design boats(i.e.hobie 16 nats 70 boats).How many people can afford to race a tornado?Paul Henderson the ISAF president has a strong push on right now for Olympic class boats to be less about technology and more about sailing skills.I think the Tornado is a great boat,but I personally could not afford to campaign one.

Having watched and supported friends in campaigns. The cost of the technology is a pittance compared to the travel, sails, coaching, living expenses ... not to mention the time off from your job and family.

Henderson is full of crap on this issue. His argument has never been persuasive to me.

With respect to attendance... I can't find more then 75 racing teams in the US sailing a performance boat (I20, F18, F18HT or Tornado)... so perhaps 4 or 5 serious teams is not so bad.

One of the German T-class commodores touched on this when I talked with him during the german championship this year.

Germany is one of the few countries to have a big Tornado class. They also have 3 -4 teams fighting for an olympic berth.

Sailors running an olympic campaign dont have time to build a class. That is left to other 'regular' members of the class.
In Germany the Tornado class is generally considered to be a bit 'aloof' by the other classes, a kind of 'the Tornado is not for every sailor' attitude. I'm not saying this is caused by the olympic status, but it might be one of the reasons. The olympic candidates also participate in smaller events, which is inspiring and valuable for weekend warriors. But this is not very motivating for teams who wants to win
This really hurts when the class tries to recruit new Tornado sailors.. There was about 30 participants in the International German Championship this year.

The Commodore was not entirely sure if the olympic status was for the better or worse, today..

Regarding costs.. The Tornado was originally meant to be 'the backyard builders way to the olympics'. The boat is after all designed for plywood home building.
Some arms races later we have one manufacturer left, and they dont make their money on the Tornado. Marstrøm builds beautiful and lasting boats, but earns their money on spars and other products.
This means that there is no manufacturer present at trade shows or supporting the class.

I dont think the Tornado is an expensive boat to buy or race at club level. But the class needs to focus a bit more on all the non-olympic sailors. After all, the olympic classes is supposed to be large classes active worldwide (I know, large, like the 49'er was before the olympic selection [irony]).

Indeed BS; the 49-er as expensive as the tornado so that is not it.

With regard to the ISAF wanting less and less technology driven boats.; Howabout dropping a few of those numerous mono's ?

Like the Finn (we already has a singlehander mono in the laser) and Europe, (We already have a crew mono in the soling and Yngling)

ISAF would do well to reduce the sailing campaign to

laser
Soling
49-er
Tornado
A singlehanded catamaran
Mumm 30 (a true crew ship)

This would cover the whole sailing scene except big yachting

Wouter

Wouter: We are sidetracking here. But do you propose to have female teams in the same classes as the men ?
Would that be fair with regards to optimum crew weight and strength ?

I know how hard we sheet the main on our Tornado, and that would be really heavy for a girl. With more purchase you would have to move more sheet..

But, we really were discussing the poor turnout for this years nationals in the US..

Hi Rolf

You raise two interesting points

I agree with you, the Class attitude is critical... At the Club level, new sailors or teams considering changing classes are extremely sensitive to these social cues. Why would they spend time with the Tornado crowd if they percieve that they don't fit in? They pick another boat to sail.

Do the German Tornado's compete in mulitclass events with the other beach cats or do they maintain their own exclusive circuit (and proud of it)?

The skill level of the Olympic sailors is out of sight for a club level sailor. You always want to measure your performance against the best ... however... you do need positive feedback to stay with cat sailing as a competitive sport. Do the German Tornado's designate A and B fleets for their 30 boat fleet?

If Germany has about 30 Tornado's at their nationals along with (Wild guess) 50 other F18 and F20 teams... then the USA ratio of 4 Olympic campaigns out of 75 total performance racing teams is not too far off. (We just won't discuss the total populations of the two countries)

Take Care

US Sailing gave good press for the event at http://www.ussailing.org/

This was not a high attendence regatta. This was a spectator sport for most of us non professionals that helped put on the event. This was for the compaigns that have a chance to win the cup and a berth on the Olympic team. Even amoung this elete group there was a big difference in performance. If the week-ender were out there they could have been waiting around a long time to start the next race after the first place boats came in.

It was fun to watch these teams in action and less distracting than when there are too many boats out there.
We hold other regattas and distance races for the masses during the year. Next one up on the TBCSI schedule is the Hangover Regatta New Years Day and there is always the infamous TBCSI Macho Man. We are in the process of finalizing our schedule for next year. Last year we had 14 major events.

[
Have you heard of another Tornado besides yourself racing on the west coast?

I have heard there may be one or two Marstrom boats in the Los Angeles area other than mine...and maybe a couple in Sanfransico. There are a quite a few more older boats in the region that are more on the pleasure sailer side of the fence.

I hope to take my Marstrom on the road a bit this coming year to attend some open multihull events south of LosAngeles (one place in Orange County is holding an Olympic Classes regatta). I will also be crashing every keelboat/ORCA class multihull event I can around my home port (Ventura) to try to grow interest in beach cats and to encourage the organizers to formally allow us in these events.

Mike.

They participate where they can (open events), but since the Tornado is a 'largish' class in Germany they also have their own events and class-starts.

I dont know where this bad reputation came from, but I meet the same apprehencion when I meet non-sailors at home. Most people seem to think that a fat wallet, blazer and white caps are required to go sailing. Kind of a closed rich-mans club. I guess the reputation of the german T-class is based on some of the same misnomers.

Not as far as I know. I participate in some of their events, but have not heard about such an arrangment. They also run their own rankings: German T rankings

Most of the sailors are club racers on more or less the same skill level, so it would not really be practical for most events.

Dartfast said the US Nationals was run for the olympic hopefuls. I understand the argument with waiting time for the best teams, but I dont think that is what the US nationals are about ? Could this be part of the reason for 'the elite/not for everybody' image of the class ?

BTW: Anybody who knows why Roland and Gunnar did not participate ?

Sorry W...
The challenge with dropping the Finn... Is the stupidity of the "one design" mentality of the Olympic suits..

One design require crews to fit into specific weight height profiles.. The tighter the one design rules the smaller the optimum range..
Thus to allow heavy and light solo skippers then two classes are needed....

Nothing will change with the olympic classes till the one design mentality is consigned to histories rejected ideas graveyard..

Roland Gabler had to drop out after the first day of racing because he came down with a very bad case of the flu. He could not even eat anything for three days. This was reported by Jill Nickerson -- Roland and crew were staying with Jill and Robbie Daniel.

No one has mentioned the 10ft beam as a class building roadblock for the Tornado. Do you think the beam has something to do with it?

Bill Vining

I'll take a stab at the poor turnout for the US Championship

It's not as high profile as the North American Championship
It's at a bad time of the year (holidays)
A lot of the sailors are burned out, tried, sick or they have been gone so much their family is asking "who are you again?"

As far as the Tornado at a club level, it is a delightful boat to sail. The pain of a 10ft beam on land is more than balanced by the joy of it on the water. When a puff hits you accelerate instead of heeling, you can steer it with your fingertips, when a control annoys you, you can just change it, etc. I have just accepted that I need a tilt trailer, which adds 5-10 minutes to the setup.

Carl Bohannon
US782

Hi Carl,
It always catches my attention that the people who talk about the wide boat impact on sailability are the narrow boat owners. They have never tasted the flavor of or felt the feel of 50% more horsepower, 12ft/8ft, right off the bat. They do not know what they are missing. It is like driving a car with a turbocharger vs driving a car with a normally aspirated engine. Why go slow when you can go fast??
Bill

Hello Tornado Sailors and Others,
If the system is working right, the other multihull classes are feeder classes to the Tornado class. The Tornado class is the Olympic class, as we all know, therefore it is the class with the best sailors. Sailors who become champions in X, Y, or Z class, if they want to try for a higher level of sailing capability, they can get in the Tornado class and strive to become an even better sailor. To win a gold medal in the Olympics is the best, highest level of achievement, there is in any sport.
The Tornado is the Olympic class not because it is the fastest catamaran and not because it is a big class, but because it is the most responsive catamaran sailboat to excellent sailing skills. The Tornado class is to sailing what the Gaint Downhill ski slope is to snow skiing.
Bill

Hi Bill

You wrote:
Hello Tornado Sailors and Others,
If the system is working right, the other multihull classes are feeder classes to the Tornado class.

Respectfully, what nonsense is this? There is no system at play here. The US Sailing coach is NOT approaching the current I20 or Hobie 16 national champ and recruiting them to campaign for the Olympic berth. Moreover, the Olympic boats are not selected based on their being the pinnacle of anything. They are chosen through hard ball politics of the sailing federations world wide in order to span the spectrum of sailing competition world wide.

Without that Olympic carrot… the North American Tornado class would resemble the Shark class with just a few stalwart clubs and a handful of devoted fans continuing to race the boat.

The attrition rate of the Tornado Class is about the same as the attrition rate within the Hobie 16 class (Once upon a time…. 1,000 racers competing nationally… now 100, Tornado’s… Perhaps 50 now down to 5) The Tornado’s were sailed at the club level in yacht clubs…. Hobies were sailed at the club level off a beach. The two cultures were different and proud of it.

What remains of the Tornado class are the few teams who commit blood sweat and tears for a chance at an Olympic medal. If the Olympic microscope were turned onto a Hobie 16…. You would likely see the same dynamics observed in the Tornado class (Huge travel demands to find elite competition, equipment upgrades, coaching, intense competitiveness, marginalization of the club sailor) take over and dominate this class as well because the stakes would be high. It has nothing to do with the boat itself.

Take Care
Mark

Wouter

Mark, you're negative and pessimistic and RIGHT.

Mark,
If the US Sailing Coaches are not out looking in other catamaran classes for talent, then they are not doing their job well. When I was sailing Flying Dutchman, the USISA reps were looking at other high performance monohull class champions to Woo them into the Dutchman class. Frequently they were loaned boats for try-outs at major FD regattas. You make it sound like someone has lost their 'how to be a good coach 'book. What I am talking about is 'Coaching Basics 101'.
Bill

About the coaching
problem number one is that there is no full time Tornado coach because there is no money.
You can help: http://www.ussailing.org/olympics/2004/Winning/Voyage_to_Athens.htm

Hi Mary

Sadly so I'm afraid.

In order to find solutions you must first generate a consensus that something is wrong... stop digging.... identify what is wrong and then get everyone on board and agree on a solution.

You know my solution. Beach sailors should join or form clubs with mast up storage to create a home base. Racing should be inclusive by using the Portsmouth system of level or similar boats. We should make sure we create B fleets for the entry or recreational racers. National events are the place for class or formula championships.

Take Care
Mark

Mark, do you guys have mast-up storage on the Chesapeake?

Hi Mary

We have 4 clubs in the region.

Rehoboth Bay Yacht Club (2 hours East from the Bay Bridge) is home to an active Hobie fleet. They hosted the 16 Nationals last year. They have Sunday racing with mast up storage.

WestRiver Catamran Racing Association has mast up storage on the West River about 1/2 hour South of the Bay Bridge. They have a very active Tuesday night racing program with up to 25 boats racing from Supercat 22's down to Prindle 16's and Hobie 18's. .... I think they averaged over 12 boats turnout every night this past season. They may also be expanding into a traditional Dinghy club just down the river this season. They are the most succesfull club in the Balto,Washington Annapolis area and prove the point that Weeknight racing is just popular!!!

Potomac River Sailing Club is 1 hour West of the bridge near National Airport in DC... they are predomoninately a Hobie 16 club and also have a Sunday race series on the River.

Podickery Point Yacht club is really a marina. We have a growing fleet and have planed 4 races with the Gibson Island Monohull fleet for this coming season. We are joined by several members of Hobie 54 who have private property about 3 miles up the coast towards Baltimore.

We encourage everyone to join one of these clubs which match up to your schedule, pocketbook and taste.

Take Care
Mark

Ive sailed all kinds of cats, and there is nothing out there that compares to the acceleration and stability of the SC 20 et al with wider beams. Even the I 20 I sail now cant compare. And with those huge boards, the boat will tack like a monohull.
Very Impressive, you should try it.

David Mosley
www.seacats.org