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tornados tillers off the back???

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(@erice)
Posts: 1419
Member
Topic starter
 
[#23588]

as decent video of the last cat racing in the olympics seems non-existent for most of us i went back to watch the most recent

best tornado video

, the 2008 takapuna worlds, http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=qy4yZOgvL-Q, (make sure to click high resolution and full screen at the bottom right of the video)

i notice at 31sec、 2.21sec、3.08sec, 3.48sec, 4.27sec, 5.32sec、and 7.04sec that when going downwind on spinnaker that the crew? is as far aft on the wire as possible and the helm? on the tramp and steering with the rudder cross bar, the extension has just been bailed out behind the boat and is bouncing along in the wake

just a few noob guesses here but i suppose this means

1. that with the crew so far aft there really is nowhere else to put the rudder extension

2. that this is something only done when the wind is strong enough to support 1 hull up with both still 2 on the windward side of the boat

3. that tornados don't use extending tiller extensions, just fixed length carbon tubes

is that right???


 
Posted : September 11, 2008 8:33 am
Jake Kohl
(@jake)
Posts: 11744
Three Star Admiral Registered
 

You are correct on all points. With the crew trapped out behind the skipper the tiller gets in the way and if the crew bumps it, it could mean instant capsize.


 
Posted : September 11, 2008 9:11 am
F-18 5150
(@hobie18rich)
Posts: 1343
Member
 

I've done the same on the f-18 a few times. By holding the corner of the tiller rudder conection you get really good feel and instant responce.


 
Posted : September 11, 2008 9:35 am
(@Anonymous 13274)
Posts: 3111
 
Quote
...and if the crew bumps it, it could mean instant capsize.

As a duly designated member of the Crew Union, I can say that the crew never

bumps

the tiller extension. Some skippers have a tendency to smack and poke their crew with the tiller, however. This is generally presumed to be accidental. <img src=

alt=

/>


 
Posted : September 11, 2008 9:36 am
(@stank)
Posts: 5061
One Star Admiral Registered
 
Quote
Quote
...and if the crew bumps it, it could mean instant capsize.

As a duly designated member of the Crew Union, I can say that the crew never

bumps

the tiller extension. Some skippers have a tendency to smack and poke their crew with the tiller, however. This is generally presumed to be accidental. <img src=

alt=

/>

I believe skippers refer to this as a

Gerk

(or

Gurk

) designed to remind the crew to pay attention to the sails?

This technique appears especially effective when 'demonstrated' on certain sensitive areas of said cremember's anatomy.


 
Posted : September 11, 2008 9:47 am
(@_removed-account)
Posts: 15030
Four Star Admiral Registered
 

In the

Skipper's Club

this is know to NOT be

generally presumed as accidental


 
Posted : September 11, 2008 9:47 am
(@Anonymous 13274)
Posts: 3111
 
Quote
I believe skippers refer to this as a

Gerk

(or

Gurk

) designed to remind the crew to pay attention to the sails?

It is, indeed, known as a Gurk. That is the sound the crew often makes when this

method

is employed. Crews do not appreciate getting gurked, and some skippers are forced to move to single-hand fleets once they are labeled by the Union as a gurker. Although I once knew an F17 driver who gurked himself.


 
Posted : September 11, 2008 9:51 am
(@Anonymous 38970)
Posts: 84
 

Actually most T sailors use telescoping tillers and you can use the tiller downwind if you want. However, there are couple of benefits to using the crossbar:
1) The skipper can plant his arm down and hold the rudders more steady against the waves.
2) By laying down the skipper can see better from under the main.


 
Posted : September 11, 2008 10:55 am
(@_removed-account)
Posts: 15030
Four Star Admiral Registered
 
Quote
Although I once knew an F17 driver who gurked himself.

You can go blind doing that to much!


 
Posted : September 11, 2008 11:11 am
(@tornadokc247)
Posts: 1198
Master Chief Registered
 

With the crew that far aft, the tiller is clear of the crew generally, but a good reason to toss the extension is to avoid the crew from breaking it in multiple pieces when he slips and bangs against the hull.
Most, but not all teams use the Marstrom telescoping tiller...runs over $500 USD before shipping. Nice, light, very fragile.

When mine was broken into 3 sections, I replaced with an 8' A-cat carbon extention.

Another technique I see T helms use is to place the extension on top of the shoulder and grasp it from below. Have only tried it once or twice but could not get used to the weird feel. I leave it under my arm & tuck it under my armpit whe I need a second hand...I find I can steer a little just by leaning my upper body in or out.

Mike.


 
Posted : September 11, 2008 11:20 am
(@Anonymous 13024)
Posts: 4319
 

Going downwind in big wind on the T, the stick is more in the way than an aid in my experience. Steering by the connector arm positions you exactly where you should be as well.


 
Posted : September 11, 2008 11:32 am
(@_removed-account)
Posts: 15030
Four Star Admiral Registered
 
Quote
Another technique I see T helms use is to place the extension on top of the shoulder and grasp it from below. Have only tried it once or twice but could not get used to the weird feel. Mike.

Practice and perfect this technique. Using the tiller overhand means you hinge at the elbow, underhand you have to use the shoulder. Hinging at the elbow is far more accurate and uses less energy.

On my last two boats (A cat and Tiger) I was able to rest the tiller on my shoulder to sheet with both hands. Unless your helm is way out of wack there should be enough friction against your shoulder to keep the boat going straight.


 
Posted : September 11, 2008 5:43 pm
ncik
 ncik
(@nickb)
Posts: 935
Master Chief Registered
 

And you've got something very convenient and strong to hold onto when you stuff the bows.


 
Posted : September 11, 2008 6:07 pm
(@erice)
Posts: 1419
Member
Topic starter
 

after initially trapping with he extension underhand i've now swapped to doing it overhand and resting it on my shoulder when sitting on the hull, it does seem more comfortable but you need a well fitting pfd

when first doing it and wearing my old loose fitting lifejacket, that rodes up, a couple of times when i came in off the wire and thought i was resting the extension on my shoulder it had actually threaded itself through the arm opening of the pfd and i hadn't noticed

until i trid to scoot under the boom and found i couldn't swing the extension behind the traveller

made for an interesting few secs as i fumbled around putting the boat into wind to take the jacket off and unthread it.

pic attached shows how close extension end is to shoulder opening when out on the wire and overhanding it


 
Posted : September 11, 2008 8:02 pm
(@wlrottge)
Posts: 835
Chief Registered
 
Quote
And you've got something very convenient and strong to hold onto when you stuff the bows.

I'd be scared to pull too hard on those carbon marstrom tiller arms.

In the case of a stuff, I know a couple of UPPER end skippers who basically wedge themselves in by putting their forward hand into the lacing just in front of them.


 
Posted : September 11, 2008 8:47 pm
Jake Kohl
(@jake)
Posts: 11744
Three Star Admiral Registered
 
Quote
In the case of a stuff, I know a couple of UPPER end skippers who basically wedge themselves in by putting their forward hand into the lacing just in front of them.

Hey! I do that! Does that mean I'm UPPER?


 
Posted : September 11, 2008 9:49 pm
(@Anonymous 38749)
Posts: 1138
 

That is fabulous, athletic, fast, beautiful stuff.
I enjoy skiffs but they are so over engineered and complicated in comparison.
As long as the Olympics omit cats, they are out of date and second best.
It is very sad to think the T would be gone as it represents the fastest beach type sailing of the last 40 years and it is still a classic thing of rare beauty.
I was watching a little video of the big tri the other day and the same thing raised it's head. Why would you bother trying to drag all of that bulb through the water when you just don't have to?

I am left with a strong line of thought which is

thank God my neighbour wanted to get rid of his PT all those years ago

.


 
Posted : September 13, 2008 2:32 am
(@wlrottge)
Posts: 835
Chief Registered
 
Quote
Hey! I do that! Does that mean I'm UPPER?

Nope, you just emmulate greatness!! <img src=

alt=

/>


 
Posted : September 13, 2008 2:21 pm
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