Tradewinds Story and Pix

Thanks Rick,

Just a question, will there be a link to the full results of the Tradewinds regatta ?

Wouter

Thanks Rick. Did you get the corrected scoring for the F18s? I think some of the standings may change after correcting the first race.

I am trying
Rick

Rick,
Great regatta! We had a blast, totally worth the 48ish hours of driving, we'll be there next year!
I'm sure it's already been brought to your attention that Olli and Kelly won the first race and if you change the scoring in that race Bret and I will be sure to agree.

-Todd Riccardi

Oh, come on! I want my bullet!

Maybe next year. I'll make sure my crew brings a drysuit. And that I rig the spin sheet OVER the jib downhaul.

/was 3rd in that first race until I found that out the hard way.

Rick and Roy, Thanks for the great story and pics!

There are more photos courtesy of Big Steve O & 204 Underground & ROXY here
204 Underground Photo page

Complete results are somewhere?

Can't find the results

There is a link to the results in the story.

Looks like they never corrected the scoring . . .

1 Plane Ticket to FL - $275
1 Car Rental for the Weekend - $75
2 Nights at Gilberts - $250
1 Boat Transport to/from FL - $400

Getting a scored a bullet in the first race (that you really didn't get): Priceless!

I hope they correct the scoring before they send it to Tracie. It might affect rankings for some of the people.

Matt, you should have corrected it on the beach.

If there were scoring errors, did anybody tell Linda Jo about them at the beach, so she could correct them?

Apparently not, so now somebody will have to contact Rick and explain what needs to be corrected, since the scoring is on his laptop.

Olli - I never saw the results on the beach - there were numerous people that told me that I had been scored a 1 in the first race. You even made the comment as you were going to pick up your trophy that you should have had 3 points, not 4. I had to leave immediately after the trophies.

I left with the impression that somebody else had already told Rick/Mary that there was a problem - it's even referenced earlier in this thread.

Even if you corrected my score to 10 (which is about where I think I finished), it would only drop me down 3 places overall - from 11 to 14. I know Tim doesn't care about F-18 points, and although I can't speak for Bill and Brian, I've got a pretty good feeling the tail end of that fleet really doesn't care about points either.

What's more troubling is the DNC that Mike and Karen Grisko got in the first race - I know they were in the hunt - were they OCS?

"If there were scoring errors, did anybody tell Linda Jo about them at the beach, so she could correct them?

Apparently not, so now somebody will have to contact Rick and explain what needs to be corrected, since the scoring is on his laptop."

LJ corrected it on Rick's sheet, but not on the computer.

Matt - The Grisko's were right in front of us. Remember we had separate start/finish lines. They finished on the starting line side of the RC boat and didn't unwind...hence the DNC. I immediately told Susie that we just moved up a spot!

That finish would have put them in second ahead of the two chuckleheads that tied for first loser. Tough break - the Griskos were going fast.

So glad I read the sailing instructions over a couple times... apparently Karen said she never saw anything about seperate start/ finish lines.

Check the results now. I think they are correct. Rick did not know about the errors. Earlier in this thread, when he said, "I am trying," he was referring to just getting the results posted, period.

The scoring printout that he used at awards did not have any corrections on it by LJ. Maybe she manually corrected the one she put on the bulletin board? But Rick would not have seen that one.

So we went back to the original score sheets used by the race committee on the water, and used those to correct the results in the computer.

Let us know if you see anything else wrong.

It always amazes me how few people read the SIs. Just before the start one of the F16 sailors asked about the course,

What does 4X mean.

Of course, we didn't answer except that it was in the SIs.

And the fact that someone tried to finish in the Starting Line was anaother example of not reading the SIs.

The reason there are SIs is so the RC can utilize a system to get in more races and better races for all fleets.

Example: there were two courses: 4 and 4X
4 was a triangle, Windward-Leeward, and upwind finish on the starboard side of the RC boat.
4X simply added another Windward-Leeward.
Reason: The first three fleets were faster boats and this gave them a longer course.
The slower boats were given a course 4 and they started later.
This allowed all the boats to finish within about 10 minutes of each other in order to get off more races.

The reason for the finish line on the starboard side of the RC boat is that we can have a short line making it easier to score the finishers.
On the other hand the start line needed to be much longer to accomodate the larger fleets.
Doing it that way we could get off another start as soon as the last boat finished without having to take the time to reset the starting line.

I know when I attend a regatta I really read over the SIs thoroughly.
Main things to watch for:
*Start procedures (Most use the ISAF which takes 5 minutes for each class.., Tradewinds uses 3 minutes and get lots of fleets off faster)
*Start and finish lines
*Courses and how they will be displayed
*How they will handle boats over early, both individual and general recalls
*How will be the barging buoy be treated
*How they will handle wind shifts and the moving of marks

Those are just some of the basics you need to look for at every event.

Rick

I see the need and understand the points Rick made, but..

I dont like it when SI's diverge to much from the "standard". It's impossible to read them onboard, as there just isn't time to check them underways on bouyos racing. So you must memorize all exceptions to the 'standard', and remember them in the heat of racing. Not something I find easy. Here in Europe we also get them in different languages, so the possibility for a real disaster is there if the SIs is written in your third language or a language you dont understand at all.

There is a conflict of interest here, between sailors and the RC, but I dont see a good way to solve it.

Does Ricks summary of the SIs maen that you race F18s around triangles?
that must get a bit expensive on spinny wear and tear!
one of the best bits of sailing with a kite is that we get away from the 'triangle procession'and open up the race to a bit of free thinking [tackticks]

I felt like I was in a time warp at Tradewinds - many of the procedures, courses and the like have not been used in North American Hobie Class events for several years.

The ISAF starting sequence is much more flexible than the fixed starting sequence used at Tradewinds - even if it would have added 10 minutes to the total starting sequence. For example, the F-18's could have been started on time the first race (we were mostly all there at 9:00 AM) without having to start the other classes. Instead, we sat around and froze our a$$es off for 40 minutes waiting for the other classes to get out to the course. Same thing for waiting between races - the F-18's could have been started on their second race instead of waiting for the last boat in all the other classes to finish. That's when my crew got hypothermic - from sitting around for 20 minutes between races.

The ABCAC course (Course 4) was dropped from the Hobie Class standard course chart two years ago, because it's a race to the first weather mark, then a drag race. It spreads out the fleet and doesn't provide the passing opportunities that a W/L race has. The 4x course helped, but still, that was the first F-18 course I've ever sailed around the cans that had a true reaching leg.

Downwind gates and finishes are used almost exclusively at HCA events instead of the single downwind mark and upwind finishes that were used at Tradewinds. Gates help prevent congestion at the leeward mark and provide passing opportunities. Downwind finishes are tactically challenging, especially in spinnaker boats.

Separate start/finish lines work particularly well with the ISAF starting sequence, but Rick's argument about moving the marks doesn't hold water for the type of start sequence he was using. The start and finish pin positions can be marked with small buoys (fenders) on the same side of the signal boat and a larger bouy clipped on to the appropriate one as necessary. You don't need to move the ground tackle to reset.

Want to emphasize that I truly appreciate the time and effort that Rick, Mary and everybody else put into giving us a good time and I am writing this to be constructive, and not just critical.

The Hobie Class has been spoiled with the top-shelf race management we've gotten from the likes of Paul Ulibarri (running the Tornados at the Miami OCR this week), Mark Santorelli, Mike Walker and Irene McNeill at our major events. That's why Mike and Karen Grisco got confused with the separate start/finish lines. They're not likely to make that same mistake twice.

Matt,

It's pretty hard to not hear a rather unappreciative tone to that post. First - this wasn't an HCA event so I don't see how that's even an issue. Second, the course is hardly substandard or outdated...it's the OLYMPIC sailing course that can be found HERE. Third, what exactly is your complaint about the Race Committee besides waiting for the boats to get out there to get started? I was pinned, beyond our control, in the lot behind several boats that there skippers weren’t ready and we were late to the course – I was pretty appreciative that the RC was sensative to the launching conditions. As far as you being cold – is that really the race committee’s fault? Fifth, regarding the finish direction (upwind or downwind) you make a pretty selfish proposal to finish downwind when at least half of the fleet was either uni rigged or main / jib only. Certainly you're not suggesting that they finish upwind while spin boats finish downwind. Sixth, by listing all the great HCA PROs, are you trying to infer that Rick White isn't qualified?

Thanks for coming to my defense, Jake.

Just some food for thought: The reason for the Course 4 is to get the early starting boats (usually faster) off to the side of the course the first time around while all the other classes are starting. We try to keep the reaching legs deep enough so the brave can still carry their spinnakers.
Hobie really ought to start using Course 4 again.

On the 3-minute start sequence, we were able to get off 6 classes in 18 minutes, instead of 30 minutes with the 5-minute sequence.., and still allow each class clean air for their starts.
When the 5-minute, class flag start came into being the theory was that when one class finished and were hanging around, you could go ahead and start them while others were still sailing.
Sounds great! But, rarely works. I have been to many, many regattas since the onset of the new start sequence and have only seen it work successfully once.
You can't start a class that has finished if the course is not square. Any windshift and you must await all the classes to finish anyway.

Just a bit on my exprerience:
*I was on the Olympic RC for Savannah
*I am a US Sailing Senior RC
*I was PRO for the MOR (Olympics) for 9 years in Miami and ran the Tornado and 49er course.

But, I guess I really didn't have to tell you all that! Must be my vanity! <img src=

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We hope to get some pretty good advertising money for next year's event and either have a better venue or improve on what we have. So, we hope to have a great race next year.
Hope we can see ya'll there.
Thanks
Rick

Not much to do with Tradewinds, but...

AMEN!

True, but what percentage of total boats are Tigers racing HCA events?

The "excuse" I hear in our area (for the unpopularity of the Tiger) is that they are too much work for our small lakes. I'm sure this will change as folks get the taste of spi boats, we really do lag behind the coasts. That said, the most popular boat here is the H20. So, why does HCA feel the need to eliminate B for the "rest of us"? It doesn't have to be used in every race.

The opinionated view of a sloop rig sailor.

Oh, fer crissakes! I wasn't trying to be whiney - I just was trying to be constructive. I went out of my way to point that out. I knew this wasn't an HCA event - that's why I read the SA's and knew about the separate S/F lines. I was just pointing out the differences because I think(personal opinion) the HCA's been spoiled with high-quality event management - and I want Rick's regatta to be better for everybody next time. I wasn't demeaning Rick's experience or abilities - I just felt like the courses and starting sequence was from an earlier era - which they were!

I race in upwards of 15 events a year - and this was the first ABCAC course I've sailed in over 3 years! The point is not about having a B mark - it's about having a reach immediately after the first weather leg. All it does is stretch out the fleet and force everybody to one side of the course. Eliminating this pracitice was not done for spinnaker boats - it's been the practice at all major Hobie events for years.

Personally, I was annoyed that I made the effort to get out to the course on time and had yet had to wait on the water for the stragglers to get out. There might have been a fourth race possible (and a throwout) if it had. I can see your point, Jake (being trapped), but ultimately it's every competitor's responsibility to get to the line on time. You were lucky that Rick waited.

Starting 6 classes using the old sequence uses 21 minutes, not 18. Using the ISAF sequence would have only used 9 more minutes - less than a third of the time that was wasted in the postponement of the first race. If you say you're going to start at 9:00 AM, then start at 9!

I think if you ask anybody who was sailing that morning, they'll tell you they were cold. My crew became hypothermic - she was shivering violently, then stopped. That's a bad sign, so I took her in. If we had not been sitting around so much, that might not have been necessary.

BTW - 90% of the races in the Hobie 16 NA's and the Hobie 17 NA's had downwind finishes. It's not just for spinnaker boats.

Rick - you're not listed on the US Sailing web site as being a Certified Race Officer. Every person I mentioned in my previous post is, except for Mike Walker, who is a Senior Canadian Race Officer (listed on the CYA website).

Alright - let's head this off now. C'mon guys - it was a good event. Matt, of your 15/year, I'll bet that they're pretty much all HCA events, and therefore understandably consistent in their approach. But you surely know that it is sometimes done differently. You may not always agree with the RC - lord knows Rick and I have gone 'round and 'round on the Wave course philosophy. But you deal with what you get.

Also - Rick is a Recognized Senior Race Officer - a lifetime appointment by US Sailing. Check his certification by doing a search of his name in the member section. Conversely, PU let his membership lapse some time ago and his certification is not currently valid, though he is certainly qualified.

Different strokes - Matt's comments should be taken as constructive critisism - nothing more.

Hey man, if it was that bad of a time for you, don't come again. Rick did a great job, and you have no right to fault anything at a race that you did nothing to help plan or run. Yeah, racing was scheduled to start at 9:00 am, but with the launch areas (all 2 of them), it is hard to get 40+ boats on the water, especially when the boats first up are often behind the boats last up. Since I got there early, it must be my fault that a few Hobie 16's and and an F16 were parked in front of me and that I had to wait for them to get in the water. Regardless of your "constructive criticism" clause, it seems to me that you're just tearing this race down because it wasn't run as you would run it, or done in the "happy hobie way."