Tradewinds Story and Pix

As one of the first ones to complain about being cold, I have to say that if you were cold Sunday morning then you were not adequately dressed for the weather. While the temperature of both the water and the air was relatively warm, when the wind hit your wet body, it made it feel 20 degrees colder.

As for the postponement, Trey and I were sailing all over Blackwater sound tuning the boat (as if it made any difference) and you were sitting around waiting for the start? No wonder you were cold. Don't rag on the over-qualified PRO for your lack of preparedness.

You're from Detroit and you're cold?!?!?!

If you dont like the way a regatta is run, pull the organizers aside during or after the event and talk to them about it. Call them. Explain your reasons why, offer examples, or better yet, offer to help the next year.

To come out on a public forum and bitch, and in my opinion your bitching, and to publicly question the integrity of someone who has devoted so much to catamaran sailing demonstrates a complete lack of class to me.

Our regatta, the JPOR has used the old starting sequence for years. I hate it, but our PRO has been the PRO for like 20 something years. EVERY year he is dependable and shows up. I hope someday he tries the new system, but as long as he is willing to VOLUNTEER his time year after year, Im good with whatever he wants to do.

And to complain about the cold and your lack of preperation for the elements at an event is completely shameful.

Im sorry Matt, I enjoyed talking to you in the Keys, but it drives me nuts when people complain publicly about others that volunteer their time.

C'mon guys - really. Matt had his say, Rick had his say. This doesn't need to be a bash-fest.

But he started it!!!

Matt, I've since had my coffee and I apologize for the 'whiney' thing.

On a different note... anyone know when the pictures Roy took are gonna be up on his site?

Someone has a bad case of the MONDAYS

Everyone should join us in this, click click

I guess I am a little late on this but one of the indviduals above did an event a few years ago and they were the worst PRO I have ever seen.

The point is everything will not always be perfect for everyone. If you have a problem: tell the PRO, If you had fun: tell everyone.

I'll bet it rhymes with Cherry and you had a "Fever" ???

Jake, just one correction. The Tornados have not raced around reaching marks for a long time (like since early 90s) (including the Olympics).

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the reaching legs. But that's mostly because I suck at them. Haven't practiced them enough. I don't thinks they are a big deal when we are doing three laps around the course. Plenty of time for tactics after the first lap.

Y'Al,

RICK WHITE ROCKS!!

Bob

As a suggestion for next year...maybe run a old course 3 (ACABC) or morph it to a 3X (ACACABC) instead of the 4. That way the reaching leg is at the end, the fleet finishing positions are somewhat established and the race more tactical.

Rick already explained earlier in this thread why he uses the Course 4 -- to get the bigger, faster boats off to the side of the course while the smaller, slower boats are starting. It's pretty intimidating (and potentially dangerous) for the smaller boats to be tacking to weather through a fleet of fast spinnaker boats tacking downwind (not to mention the messed-up air for everybody). A course 3 would not accomplish the purpose, and there would be no point in having a reach at all for the spinnaker boats.

Keep in mind that there are two courses -- the big outside course, and the shorter inside course for the slower boats. The goal, with multiple classes and two courses and boats of radically different speed, is to prevent as much interaction as possible between the boats on the inner course and the boats on the outer course.

The 4X on the big course actually gives the fast boats a total of three windward legs and two leeward legs, which should be plenty of time for tactics.

Believe it or not, positions can and do change on reaches. But even if all positions stayed the same, you would be no worse off when you get to the leeward mark than you were when you got to the weather mark. All you are doing is sailing a longer race than if you only got the windward-leeward legs.

My only suggestion for next year is that the reaching mark be set either high or low so that one of the reaching legs is a fast beam reach for the fun factor, and the other leg will be deep enough for everybody to carry a spinnaker with no problem. (Then the only debate should be about whether it is preferable to have the beam reach high on the course or low on the course.)

I would also like to point out that the race committee had the option of designating either a 4 or a 4X for either course and for any individual class on either course. This gives the RC a lot of flexibility to make sure that the boats all finish pretty close to the same time to eliminate waiting between races.

For example, one of the classes on the big course had some late finishers which delayed the next start sequence, so for the next two races, that class was given a Course 4 instead of a 4X.

Conversely, if one of the fleets on the short course was finishing very early, they could have been upped to a 4X.

The only way I can possibly see it done better is if we had double the race committee people, double the RC boats, double the chase boats, double the flags and had two separate courses for the fast boats and the "slow" boats. That would be nice, but it just ain't gonna happen.

I hope this explains it.

Hi Mary and Rick:

I use to love the reaching leg. One of my fondest memories was when in C fleet early in my sailing in the early 80's on Hobie 16. My A fleet crew that I bought the boat from after rounding A mark in a hot 40 boat race said "MAN!!!! you are making this boat HUM!!!!!". We were hauling butt with the bows just a few inches above the water (right on the verge of pitchpole)and pumping the sails constantly. It was a HOOT. Reaching is fun in a race, and after all. Most sailors who start out just reach out and back anyway, Right?

Doug

This takes a little explaining, so bear with me.....

Some assumptions first

1, The fast (kite) boats want W/L and have their own Hcap event, Ditto slower (and non kite boats) want triangles and or square courses
2, Sounds like 5 fleets of varying performance (from Tornado to slow)

We have a similar problem at our club racing events (bear with me) and at the Cat open we also run (140 boats)

We have come up with an interesting solution.

1, Start the slow boats first and send them on triangles or squares, sharing the top mark with all other starts, but using an outside (deeper) bottom mark
2, Faster boats that want W/L courses inside the slower boats that are doing triangles or squares. The fast boats have a seperate bottom mark 50 yards directly to windward of the slow course.

So how does it work.....

Firstly the Ctte boat is set about 1/4 up the leg (a tradeoff, as everyone must go thru the line each time; but you could change the SI's to mean that boats only need to cross the line when finishing - your call, we find it helps the rece team to keep track of a couple of 100 boats by recording them each lap.)

i, Each start(slowest first) goes (hopefully) first time, if not, back of the queue
ii, with skill the first beat can be set so that each class does not bunch up at the first mark (or have done a whole lap before the last fleet (fastest) has started)
iii, as the fast boats are sailing W/L inside the slow boats it is very unlikley that the fast fleet gybing angles will mess with the slow fleet.
iv, Another bit of skill is working out when to finish each class (this is where it is usefull to know the average lap times of each fleet). The fast boats will be lapping quickly as they are faster and sailing less distance (W/L) so the controlling factor is the slow boats. You then (via wordings in the SI's) control how you finish fleets (either everyone once you start to finish the slow, or finish fleets as you see fit by hoisting the appropiate flags). With skill (and a bit of luck) you can end up with the last fast and last slow boat finishing within seconds of each other and then you can reset for the next sequence.

Note: it might be sensible to also add a short spacer at the top mark and make it a mark of the course for all starts to move the kite boats away form the windward mark.

There are +ve and -ve for this

+ve

1, Fast boats are inside and are not sharing the same bottom mark; there should be minimal interference assuming both botttom marks are set correctly
2, Fast boats get their W/L courses
3, The slow boats get their tight(er) reaches they want
4, Race officer can finish classes when (s)he wants as they all started on 10 laps
5, One windward mark, so if the wind shifts, only one mark needs moving first (the others for the slow fleet can be moved as the fleet is sailing up to the windward mark)
6, There is less passing (if any) down wind between fleets doing W/L vs triangles as there is a fair seperation.
7, More (all) close passing between fleets on different courses is done upwind
8, As the fleets are not sharing a bottom mark there are less (no) problems with Kite boats coming in deep and trying to drop kites while non kite boats appear underneath them.

-ve

1, With this method it is difficult (but not impossible) to set gates for the bottom marks.
2, Fast boats may complain that they do many laps (I'll take W/L sailing over procession racing on triangles thanks, and all the Spi sailors I know will too)
3, The slow boats end up sailing larger courses, so if they get sent around once too many times, it can hold things up somewhat - Race officer needs to have a good handle on the average lap times of each class and set a large number of laps to start with (we usually set 10 on a 2 mile (W/L) course if we can) and then shorten the slow boats at the right time.
4, Competitors can get confused as to whom is finishing if they don't know their flags.
5, The first windward mark can get busy on the first lap.

It works for our club starting boats from Lasers to boats around the speed of Tornado's !

But we (beachcats) shared a course with the Ts at their North Americans in Houston in November, and we definitely raced triangles, of which one leg was windward. There was also a leeward gate.
sail fast

Page 5 of the Tornado championship rules specifies the course to be sailed.

Ref: http://www.tornado.org/uploads/documents/Tornado%20Class%20Rules%20-%20Appendix%20C.pdf

h

That is not a triangle course !

That is a windward-leeward course with an offset mark to prevent pile ups at the A-mark (windward mark). Without the offset mark there is always some bozo who tacks around A and tries to pull a spi while meeting head on the boats still trying to round the A-mark. Makes for great funniest home-video footage.

Triangle courses see the second mark to lee of the A-mark and at a much greater distance.

Wouter

Yes, I know..
So if the Tornados sailed a triangle course, they did not follow the class rules (or the championship appendix to the class rules).

The above course is only just designated the Olympic Course.

This was the course that was used years ago in the Olympics. If you also will notice, US Sailing also has a whole other set of courses designated as "Multihull" courses.

I doubt that the so-called "Olympic" course has been used in the games for quite some time. It is still used at traditional YC's occasionally.

As far as the "need" to send the boats out to one side of the course for safety....We have had spin boats up in the NE for quite a while, we also have a large # of new racers (quite a few more than in any other part of the Country I've raced) we have found out that a properly set offset mark clears things out at the windward mark wonderfully and safely.

It certainly is NOT a triangle, is it? More of an offset, I guess to push the modern T's out to the side before they set kites and bear down on the beaters. In any kind of decently matched fleet, the stragglers will be past A by the time the leaders round the offset. Cool.