Trapping off the lee side...DEMONSTRATED!!

Now [color] THAT is inovative. I love it! Thanks for the great picture!

GARY
M6.0

Hi Gary,
This is what prompted me to ask the question concerning trapping off the lee side.

The Tornado guys seem to be "on the cutting edge". I will be running fitness assessments on some of the teams while they are in town for the Tornado Nationals in Dec. I plan on picking their brains.

Glad you enjoyed the pic.

Dave

Further analyzing this photograph, I see that the crew's left hand is grasping the leeward, port shroud. His right hand is pressing against the cross bar in an attempt to keep himself from swinging forward.

He is situated where if his body, legs strike the water, he would have very little leverage against swinging aft. His grip on the shroud is literally pivotal. Providing his trap wire is hoisted high enough and that he maintains is distance from the shroud, his body should be able to clear the deck, even though he may be dragging in the water if the boat was lifting.

Like a pirouetting figure skater draws in her arms to accelerate her spin, he can pull in his knees to accelerate his spin in toward the deck. With knees in his chest, left hand pivoting on the shroud, and right hand reaching aloft for the trap handle, he should swing right in to the rear of the tramp.

If he allows his shroud hand to slide up the shroud and he releases his grip on the shroud and pulls himself up on the trap wire, all at just the correct time, his momentum might just carry him right on through a complete upward counter-clockwise corkscrew that takes him from feet pointing at 9 o'clock, through 360º in the lateral plane to feet pointing once again at 9 o'clock, while the lifting brings his shoulders from deck level up to boom level on the vertical plane.

That is what I would expect from a professional racer who is seen dangling on a wire, up side down, on the lee side of a catamaran, with his back to the boat and back to the water. Wow, what a precarious posture!

I speculate that this acrobatic trapeze artist just may have a circus trapeze set in his back yard, for practice and training.

GARY (Non-acrobatic trapeze sailor)
M6.0 [color]WHISK

why is this faster/better than if the leeward guy was laying on the leeward hull and the other guy moves his weight to the inside or possibly slightly leeward side? the way i see it, the hulls must displace the weight of the boat and crew. shouldn't the hulls sit the same in the water for any given speed and heeling angle regardless of position of crew and skipper (i.e. the center of gravity of the boat and crew remains at the same position).

Or it could be these guys have a sense of humor and are just goofing off. Kind of like when I climb up the mast and stand on the spreaders.

Mike Catley
M6.0 "NICE PAIR"

maybe they are just goofing, but does trapping out to lee while the other person sits on the windward hull make sense over one crew on the leeward hull and the other guy somewhere in the middle? my gut tells me that neglecting windage it doesn't.

Thats why I think they are playing.

You've got to be kidding. Of course they're playing around. If not, my crew and I were way ahead of our time. We did this 20 years ago, and not on purpose. I just didn't know we were experimenting with new wave technology in cat sailing. Actually, if my current crew and I did this we'd pull the boat over without any wind, so forget the anti-righting moment trapezing.

See you on (or in) the water.

Don

Lets start with that they are not the lead boat (note all of the spinnakers in front of them) I say 20 to 30 boats lengths behind. They see a photo opportunity and made the most of it or this is a great new way to do the wild thing and they get to the C mark in first on the starboard layline.
Just a thought
Jon

Leave it to the Canadians

<- Carolina Hurricanes fan (if you're from Canada, theres a 50% chance you'll hate me) hee hee

My preception is also that they are showing off. By the way, do you have a picture of you, up on the spreaders?!

While I expect that they are showing off, I can make up some excuses for such acrobatic behavior. I think they are goofing off because the situation the crew has placed himself in, is very risky in the good verses potential harm ratio.

Now, if for some strange reason the helmsman could not get himself farther toward the lee side, then lee trapezing by the crew could have been needed to get the windward hull out of the water. Otherwise, separating the two sailors' body masses should be counter productive. I can think of one exception.

Perhaps the skipper's ability to quickly move to windward, if needed, can justify his need to stay on the high side of the boom. This may explain his situation. Any farther forward and he'd have trouble operating the tiller extension. Any farther to lee, while so far forward would present the same steering challenge. Also, his forward placement is beneficial.

GARY
Mr 6.0 [color]WHISK

Actually, if they are just goofing off, wouldn't it be cool if the skipper jumped overboard about now? That would leave his trapping buddy upside down and wet!

Sheldon

I sure someone does. What you do is climb up the jib until you can stand on the spreaders. Then enjoy the view. Its handy when that top telltail is stuck. I don't recomend climbing your good jib. Actually if you have any sense don't do it. I could tell you about the time while coming down under full sail I sort of didn't get a good grip on the luff, well it was good enough that while I was falling I was removing the skin from my hand(you know dacron can be slippery) And of course if you have your legs slightly apart there's that darn furling line for the jib Yea brother.
Stupid human tricks.

Mike

GOOD GOOGADY GOO!!!

Hey there "mast climber";

I posted that pic to hear the various sailor's comments. And, it is a pretty neat shot. I emailed JC (crew in pic) and asked him about the technique.

They were just haming it up. He stated that the "windage" issue is secondary to "hull trim". The lee hull is being pushed in too deep. Also, the Tornados have a 6 knot min. wind speed to race.

See you at the CSWY.

Dave

Dave,

They would find this thread of our speculations to be amusing, I'd guess.

Mike, please add in a picture of you on the spreaders when you send the rudder pictures to me!

GARY

Gary,

I have witnessed the "catman" backing his boat in to the beach...standing on the spreaders. I have also seen his "hamburger meat" hands after a quick ride down the forestay.

I was talking to him, and if he can get the nerve up to trust me at the helm, we'd like to get a pic of him on the spreaders (while flying the hull). Could make for an entertaining shot.

Needless to say, since we sail, race and have fun year 'round, we attempt some pretty wild things with the boats. I'll try to dig up this photo of a local sailor (coming back from camping on an island) boat loaded to the max. with gear, under "bare pole" & throwing a rooster tail.
Dave
Dave

Leeside?

Have you ever single trapped off the:
-front crossbar?
-front bridle foil?(n6.0)

Ok, OK,

Double trapped off the front foil, rocking the boat until only the first three feet of the bows are in the water? (no air one prerace stunt Scott Tuma and I pulled on year in Tres Palacious Bay, at the TX Cat Champs!) That's right the whole boat out of the water except the tips of the bows- no air of course.

That solo trapping off the front bridle foil is great in light to med air, really gets the sterns up some-Bruce Asher and I as we passed in front of Cat Alley, Galveston Is. Remember that one Dennis?

Off the front crossbar racing, crewing with Larry Burk...., on his 6.0, at the Galveston Bay Cat Champs. You can adjust the hull fly in light air by walking mid to outboard.

I will have to say that seeing Tiffany trapping off the leeside one year with her then husband at Rough Riders was a pleasant sight!

You know if we fly it high enough I might be able to slide down the main to the tramp. Of course there is that loose footed boom at the bottom.............I don't think I'll go through that as easy as the furler line

Mike

That's Crazy!

GARY
Mr6.0 [color]WHISK

Tiff and I double-trapped at Wayward Winds this year on my P19. Of course, since it never got over 4 knots all weekend, I was off the low side and she the high...I've done this several times since in light air.
Also, when the I-20's came out, several people experimented with trapping off the rear beam in heavy air/flat water downwind.
I've decided there are a lot more options of places to trap from (INTENTIONALLY) that I haven't explored yet. Thanks for a really fun thread!

Hey,

Try this when you are bored and there is no wind.

Unhook the bungies on the traps and trap out opposite sides. Both move to the back of the boat and at the same time run forward and try to swing around the bow with both people passing in front of the jib at the same time.

We managed to pull it off a couple of times, but the awkward fall back into the front cross bar when you did not make it sometimes can be painfull.

Matt

If we are looking for strange places to trapese here is a manouver I pulled off accidently.

A few years back after a near pitch poll I (crew) swung around the front of the mast and ended up upside down still hooked in with my head and shoulders under the water, feet in the air and stomach being pressed hard agianst the front beam as the boat was still moving quite fast.

I was unbale to pull myself up because of the force of the water all I could see and hear was white water.

My helm says he slowed the boat down straight away but it felt like an age and I still claim he was waiting until he got to the next mark.

I think we may have invented a new sport freestyle catamaran sailing!!