All of this is contingent on first getting the country qualified...
Mike
Of course, but I think we have some very strong pairings emerging that will make that happen.
JC/Kristen
Mike/Katie
Troll/Louisa
Stephanie/Tripp
Sarah/Matt
all have potential. Plus, you have Bora in the mix (2 time moth world champ), which is never a bad thing.
The big picture is that the selection process is much much better then the US only Olympic trials used in the past. The trials were nothing but trouble in an era of just a couple of international competitors and a small rump US fleet (see wind surf fiasco which led to new US law and the catamaran team racing protests). The principle behind a single selection event was that a sailor would be peaking shortly before the Olympics and carry that edge to a medal in the games. The idea was that the pressure from and all or nothing event was essential in testing the sailors psychological make up and ultimately in actually winning a medal.
The reality is that world competition has raised the bar in all classes to such a degree that
peaking
can't get you a medal. Sailors like Ben Ainslee demonstrate that sheer brilliance carries the day and that
peaking
is less critical then just being the best!
In practical terms, one qualifying slot will be awarded at the 2016 OCRs... having each nation with just three boats entered AND the need to be your nations top sailor because its a countries selection event will minimize any team race bulls...t Of course, a scumbag could have their training partner/buddy from a country with nothing at stake
help
your standing... but with 40 boats on the line... it will be tougher.
Not sure what you mean by:
In practical terms, one qualifying slot will be awarded at the 2016 OCRs
For the US selection to the US Olympic Team, it is the combined results for 2016 OCR and Worlds.
Well.... the US starts this critical year with all new teams.... It could be tough to win a USA slot at the 15 Worlds. That leaves the 2016 OCR to qualify the USA for the last spot for Rio...
If they don't qualify the USA... nothing matters... but assuming we do qualify ...that specific team will also be in the lead going into the worlds in 2016 to actually represent the USA at Rio.
Presumably both events weight the same... but without a third tie breaker event... it could get political. (not saying this is a bad thing.... having three events to select would be tough to do... So, I am OK with the possibility of a split... This is why they pay Josh Adams the big bucks)
Tiebreaker goes to better finish at second event (worlds)
Well, it's certainly possible that the plan of crossing non-catsailors into the development teams could see vindication after all. Time will tell...
Mike
Alright, first big test for the US Nacra 17 teams in 2015 starts on Saturday with the Midwinter Championships on Biscayne Bay.
Entry list is here: http:/
Predictions anyone?
Overall:
Besson/Riou
Martinez
Vaireaux/Audinet
US Boats:
Easton/Pettibone
JC/Lane
Newberry/Whitehead
Wilmot/Chafee
Should be some very tight racing throughout, would love see Tartaglino/Burd have a good one.
Great start by Sarah Newberry and Mathew Whitehead.... they are standing 6 in the warm up event to the Miami Gold cup after 1 day. The rest of the American teams are well back... Lets hope all of the new teams get things sorted before the Miami event.
sadly there was no magic in the USA team reshuffle... Wilmot, Newberry and Mendalabrat finish in the high teens in the N17 midwinters. The pressure is on for funding for the third year of the cycle... TBD at the Gold Cup event in Miami... with Olympic qualification to come in the next worlds.
With one or two exceptions, story seems to be similar in other high-performance classes. Doesn't look to me like this is a multihull issue. I think its an overall gap in performance small-boat sailing culture in the US.
There need to be some fundamental changes if we can't even qualify the country. One of them needs to be continuing, if not increasing, support for the disciplines and teams that don't make the cut. There needs to be a longer term vision to improve the pipeline. At the Olympics meeting during the US Sailing meeting in WI, I asked that question and was assured that was the idea. Time will tell...
Just for fun (and practice understanding the rules), let's pretend this regatta was the qualifier. What countries would now be qualified (and why)?
Mike
There is no mystery behind the problem. In countries like AUS, NZ and GBR at around 18 identified top sailors are funnelled into Olympic classes. Even if they haven't been identified due to being from a smaller club they tend to move towards high performance classes cause as a kid fast is fun. In the US these same sailors are moved onto club 470s and the like and spend the next four years practising ways to slow each other down.
Bingo - that and the giant sucking sound from the money sports.
Every country has its money sports and with the exception of France sailing isn't usually one of them.
Sorry - I'm a bit over-sensitive on the money-sport issue which in my opinion is a bit overblown here in the US. Seems we've sometimes got some effed up priorities.
As a bit of explanation, my son (16yrs old) is a reasonably good high school gymnast - recently finished 4th nationally in one of his events (mid-30's overall), but sadly that's probably not going to be good enough to take it to the next level. You see, from close to 300 college-level mens gymnastics programs in the late 1960's, there are now only 17 scholarship programs left in the US. This is due to a combination of Title IX (basically equal scholarship opportunity for women) which is/was the result of dominance of Football, Basketball, Baseball - aka money sports. The end result is the cutting or
defunding
of many mens minor sports programs over the last several decades. Therefore, if a student is a talented athlete and wants a chance at a scholarship to pay for University (and avoid huge debt), they go for the money sports where there are 1000's of scholarships available. I'd wager the same phenomenon has sucked the oxygen from the air for sailing as well.
Even at the high school level, schools typically don't offer gymnastics which means we pay for it at the club level - significant expense relative to the tax funded traditional sports.
Fortunately for my son, he does it because he loves it and we can thankfully afford to save enough money for a good portion of his secondary education. But, gymnastics may not be a part of that - perhaps one less candidate on the path to the Olympics...
I am certain this story has been repeated 100's of times for many talented young sailors out there too.
See that is where Australia is different. There is basically no such thing as a sports scholarship here and if you chase the money sports you basically skip uni to do it.
In the US, college sailors are not ALLOWED to collect money for anything related to sailing. Bizarre...
Mike
Interesting point re college..Dean Brenner, Olympic director up through London and his position was... Olympic talent is Olympic talent... you can take a college all american....coach em up in a high performance boat and be competitive in 4 and win medals in 8 years.... His evidence... Johnny and Charlie...
After the Wehyouth debacle no cats)... Josh Adams is the new Olympic director and he is implementing the youth and olympic development program (that Mike L noted). Presumably the college crowd wasted time in C420s with no spins!
Scarecrow sums it up... they spent 4 years learning how to make others go slow...
So... is the talent wasting their time in college sailing? Can they do both... train in high perormance and complete a degree? Can they do all three... Sail for a college program, train in high performance and get a degree?
What is the college experience for the N17 fleet? Presumably the college crowd wasted time in C420s with no spins! But... did they race something else high performance during that time?
I don't know all of the teams... so help out here.
Robbie Daniel / Sarah Streater
Old Fart... No College / Currently in college ... finding time and money for both c420s and n17s.
Mike Easton/ Kattie Pettibone
College / College
Mark Mendelbrat / His Wife
Old Fart & Olympic sailor / ??
JC/ Kristin Lane
??/??
Sarah Newberry/Matt Whitehead
??/??
Jeremy Wilmot/Chafee
??/??
Troll ??/Louisa ??
??/??
Stephanie/Tripp Burd
??/College
Sandra Taraligno / ?
Old Fart /
Now you've done it Mark, Sandra is going to Kick your butt!
College sailing is fantastic fun and some of the skills certainly transfer to performance boats. That said, college sailing alone won't get you there. I think if a sailor has olympic aspirations they need to have a frank conversation with their college coach about personal goals, team goals, and how the two can become mutual goals. That conversation is on the athlete to initiate and the coach to accommodate. I consider Ravi one of the best young talents we have, and he has a nice blog about his sailing (cats and college at BU) here: http://rpsailing.blogspot.com/
Robbie Daniel / Sarah Streater
Old Fart... No College / ODU Currently in college ... finding time and money for both c420s and n17s.
Mike Easton/ Kattie Pettibone
Tufts / College
Mark Mendelbrat / His Wife
Old Fart & Olympic sailor / ??
JC/ Kristin Lane
??/??
Sarah Newberry/Matt Whitehead
New College (not sure if she sailed)/ USF (not on sailing team as far as I know)
Jeremy Wilmot/Chafee
St. Mary's/Brown
Troll ??/Louisa ?? (Jeremy Wilmot is Troll)
??/??
Stephanie/Tripp Burd
ODU/Tulane
Sandra Taraligno / Tyler Burd
Old Fart /
David Hein / Jessica Claflin
online high school / Brown
Thanks Jeff
Any idea of When did most of the fleet started training in a high performance boat?
It looks like most of the fleet are following the traditional USA path of Lovell and Ogeltree... eg 4 year college career and then train up for a High performance boat.
Newberry, Whithead and Hein look like they are the only ones tracking like the Aussies or Brits.
Not really sure of everyone's background. I will say that having a background in a performance boat as a youth is valuable even if that boat isn't a cat.
My F18 skipper did the El Toro, 420, 29er progression on the West Coast. After sailing the 29er at a high level, jumping on an F18 was a pretty simple progression, especially because the boat handling on a cat is relatively easy. I know it has taken me a lot longer to get comfortable with apparent wind tactics and the high speed
playbook
since I took a mostly keelboat and slower dinghy route.
I actually think the 29er may be a better training boat for youth than a small cat in some cases, especially because they are easier to handle, easier to store, take up less space, and likely cheaper.
Jeff, Great observations.. I think Adams would agree with you that any high performance training in the junior pathway is becoming essential. Adams and US Sailing has taken that program step by cutting the number of 420 slots to ZERO and requiring i420 or 29ner or F16s for the two person boats in the youth pathway (youth champs).
The problem with the 29ner is that it needs some breeze and only the west coast can deliver breeze during the junior sailing periods in the summers. All of the high performance boats suffer... since without numbers... kids are not turned on by a solitary two boat training regime either. Something to ask Spina/Feeney/Adams.
Its a long road back to international success!
Mike
yes, but there is pole/mast dancing...
And I believe JC wend to UCF in Orlando? Started out on MC-scows too if memory serves..
He did not go to UCF, but another school in Orlando.
And he's a good friend of mine who is literally working every ounce of his body to compete and succeed.
And reading this thread is painful for its conjecture and speculation.
I don't think anyone on this thread doubts the commitment of those trying for the Olympics. It takes a substantial effort to even consider a campaign.
The reality is, however, that we are way behind the top Nacra 17 teams. I don't think anyone would argue that, especially the sailors. The question is what can we do as a community to ensure our teams have every chance to succeed in the near and long terms.
And he's a good friend of mine who is literally working every ounce of his body to compete and succeed.
+1 From my time sailing with him, he's definitely a stand-up dude.
I would suspect $$$ being the top
what can we do
answer. With enough funding, these teams could focus exclusively on development (not fundraising, logistics, etc).
I think the steps now being taken to (a) identify potential talent and (b) sparking interest in the long road to the olympics are a good start.
On the other hand, if we used a different sport as an example... what does an Olympic medal in basketball offer to a potential star in that sport? Would they have a better prospect in a professional career with an Olympic medal around their neck?
Would an Olympic medal provide JC or Matt a better shot at a professional sailing job? Or would there be a more effective means to the top spots on an AC team (or VOR, or BWR, etc. etc.)?
And which would be your preference, to win a top world ranking or an Olympic medal?
The reality is, however, that we are way behind the top Nacra 17 teams. I don't think anyone would argue that, especially the sailors. The question is what can we do as a community to ensure our teams have every chance to succeed in the near and long terms.
Well said...If you know anyone on a campaign... you deeply respect their hard work... US Sailing has really stepped up funding and training. This upcoming gold cup event will award funding for two teams going into year three... It is tough to win the US slot and even tougher to succeed on the international level.