I plan to do both.
Nationals
Thanks, John! If we can get enough boats, we will make the F16 Nationals a BIG PARTY for sure!
Apologies for having the dates of F16 nationals wrong, I used what was on the St. Andrews Bay Yacht Club website.
I'm hoping to sail in one of the events, probably not both. The reason for that is I don't own an F16, and would likely need to be asked to sail by someone who does, or charter a boat for the regatta. Also, as a grad student my sailing funds are limited and are primarily being allocated towards the F18 worlds.
I still maintain that both events will be excellent!
Nationals is my first preference. I may consider doing AC as well, or make my boat available to someone else from CRAW.
I'm sorry about the highjack Mark. I had the two threads mixed up and posting my message in the wrong thread.
Readers Digest version:
The general idea on having the events be separate, but close (and using the same equipment) would be that we would not impact the F16 Nationals, but would have boats in the same general vicinity available to charter (privately owned or from the manufacturers who plan to be in the area already for the Nationals), so we can accomodate teams that want to sail the Alter Cup but do not have an F16 of their own. At this time, there is still a very strong opinion within the committee that the Alter Cup needs to remain a unique (separate) event.
None of our decisions have been easy, given the new world we are living in. Manufacturers want way more than even the previous $7,000 to provide 10 boats under the old format. No one has come up with a megabucks sponsor to make that happen, and we needed to make quick decisions, or have no event.
There were plenty of other complications, but this is the gist of this decision.
Hope this helps.
Mike
Mike, I'm not intentionally throwing a monkey in the wrench, but I have to point out that the
new world
is the result of the US Sailing National Championships sponsorship package - it is not of the manufacturer's making. As long as we were able to recognize the boat builders as major sponsors, the charter fees were manageable. When we lost against the push to call them
paid suppliers,
and saw them treated as such, we lost their tolerance for lower fees.
It bothers me a lot, considering the 25+ years of support, that manufacturers seem to now be
blamed
for the current format.
Well, it's pretty important. Where does the blame lie?
I don't think there is any, Pete. The sponsorship package evolved, and the
old
event format became incompatible. They were two, different missions.
Um, I would call that a fully intentional rant.
The fees are across the board, not just one supplier. No one is blaming the manufacturers alone. The boats lose 10% of value when they are sold as used. Do the math on a $20,000 boat...
Mike
I hope I can sail ONE of them
Sailors please chime in -- will anyone out there be able and likely to sail in both events (both are F16 Open events), or will you be required to chose just one? If you have to chose just one, which one will you attend? We need some serious feedback and we need it quick. 2012 F16 Nationals was planned when there were no major conflicts, now the host club has to seriously evaluate whether there will likely be enough of a turn out that the club is not in danger of taking a financial hit. Please help us figure out whether, as the 2012 F16 Nationals host site, we are likely to have a reasonable turnout. Given what we knew about the location of the fleet and the other regularly scheduled events during that time frame, we thought we would get at least 25 boats to the regatta. Now we are very concerned. Both events are Open F16 events in the Florida panhandle, just a few days apart. Alter cup is 4 days and $400 entry fee. F16 Nationals planned for 3 days and $150 entry fee.
I plan on doing Nationals for sure. Possibly both.
Greetings,
RE: Formula 16 build up in the Florida panhandle
The lead - in event will be the F 16 National Championship at StABYC November 9 - 11, and the racing for the 2012 'Alter Cup' will be on Pensacola Bay November 15 - 18.
We learned a lesson during Tradewinds, and that lesson was,
Thou shalt not stack titles.
Our yacht clubs and the MHCC wish to assist the US Formula 16 Class Association in building its destiny by supporting both events with equal enthusiasm so that youth sailors may gain valuable ground while they are 'at weight' on the boat. Youth sailors can sail Optis for only so long :)IMHO
We enjoyed eight races during our midwinters this weekend. Taylor Reiss overcame the self inflicted wound of bringing his C2 tiller cross bar for the Viper 16. I told him how proud I was that he came back on day two by his capacity for mental toughness. Taylor and my grandson were the Fleet winners. Photos and results will be available soon.
I have the Sailwave html, and I am waiting on the yc webmaster to pen them. Sail with Aloha!
old
event format became incompatible. They were two, different missions.
Which leads to the question, would the championship be better served by severing its ties with US Sailing?
Uh oh... Here we go again...
As much as I like competition, and USS needs some, I think this is a bad approach. It would be like climbing Everest.
But what do you have in mind?
Is the alter cup going to be sailed as previous events have? 20 teams sailing 10 identically prepped boats in two flights? Teams are selected through area championships or through petition?
From the sound of this thread, it sounds like anyone who shows up with their f16 (any brand) can sail the alter cup. Am I missing something?
I am not trying to stir any pots regarding the whole alter cup boat issue, I am just looking for some clarification on how the event is being administered.
I think you are spot are. Show up with a cert., pay your money and you're in, provided you're on a F16.
I'd love to do it. But I don't love it $400 worth.
From the sound of this thread, it sounds like anyone who shows up with their f16 (any brand) can sail the alter cup. Am I missing something?
I am not trying to stir any pots regarding the whole alter cup boat issue, I am just looking for some clarification on how the event is being administered.
This iteration will not be like previous events. The primary reason is not being able to offset the growing expense of chartering 10 new boats and/or difficulty in putting together a fleet of 10 existing boats in short order. It will be an open event for F16 teams (or teams that wish to charter and bring an F16). The times, they are'a changin'.
Jeff, help me understand why the US Sailing Championship is $100 a day while the F16 National Championship is $50 a day. Espically when US Sailing brings a ready made sponsorship package to the table and has access to the Hyott Jolly fund.
Thou shalt not stack titles.
Really? I thought Tradewinds was a great turnout with lots of competition. Many racers left with awards based upon their sub-classification within the event. The youth got challenged by all sorts of competitors.
The yearly round robin overlay of the multihull championship on top of recognized catamaran classes' Nationals/North Americans would have been an inexpensive solution for US Sailing.
I am sorry to see the recent Alter Cup formula end. Those involved deserve a lot of recognition because it does not get any better than that and to do it with a limited budget also....hats off!!!
Stacked
titles is the way to go, imo. Run two courses, one for Alter Cup one for ANYONE else who will come and sail to have a good time. Rotate Alter Cup among the classes.
I was only at Tradewinds as a spectator but it seemed like it was well run. I thought there should have been more PR and that would have attracted even more people.
US Sailing owns the Alter Cup via a contract/deed of gift.
So, aren't we reinventing anyway? Do we really need to pay double just because it's a US Sailing Championship? How does paying twice as much move the sport forward?
I like the notion of Alter Cup for selecting the best, mostly highly skilled people we have. But the sport sprang from a day at the beach! Fun!
We need to get back to A,B, and C fleets.
So, aren't we reinventing anyway? Do we really need to pay double just because it's a US Sailing Championship? How does paying twice as much move the sport forward?
I'm not saying this to be mean, Ding, but you don't have to go.
If you find value in going, then go. Otherwise, don't.
I thought the Championship of Champions was pricey ($400) for 3 days of racing and a practice day. However, they fed us (beer, breakfast, lunch and dinner for 4 days), entertained us (Gary J. and Tom Ehman spoke on different nights) and they arranged for us to stay with a local family so I didn't have to pay for a hotel. We got in 20 races in three days with boat rotations between each race. We got a whole bunch of swag to go along with our registration - including a DVD slide show of the professional photos taken at the event.
I didn't see the value going in, but I sure saw it coming out. I'd do it again in a heartbeat - as long as I don't have to sail a Flying Scot again.
If you find value in going, then go. Otherwise, don't.
So it's US Sailings position to charge twice as much as pretty much the same event as the month before and if you have a question about paying double US Sailing's response is... Don't go, really?
I've heard Jobson speak, what else you got?
Why is everyone so afraid to challenge the staffers of US Sailing regarding the imposed fees for US Sailing Championships?
OK guys, let's take a few deep breaths.
Mark was simply asking for your input for events after 2012, as that will be the next job for the committee.
US Sailing is neither dictating the budget, nor getting the numbers from the manufacturers. Accusations to the contrary are insulting to the volunteers spending countless hours on this.
As for 2012, the NOR is still in draft, and a press release will accompany that.
Until those documents are released, take everything that you read here with a grain of salt.
When those documents are released, before you choose to lash out here, realize that many people are putting in a lot of time to come up with a great event, and to try to come up with the best solutions to continue the health of the championship on a long-term basis.
Mike
AND WE ARE BACK ON TRACK here...
Feel free to define an elite sailor for me.. I think that is a fundamental issue for everyone to agree on.
We have the Olympics and the ISAF grade I events to figure out who the best catamran sailor in the country is... and we send them off to the Olympics to try for a gold.
We have a Champion of champions regatta already... It is for any sailor, who wins their class NA's to apply for and compete....IMO, these are 20 elite sailors. So... Matt Bounds applied and raced this event as a H17NA champ. Catamarans are not special... they don't get a mini-version of this regatta. Sailing is sailing.
So. What is the mulithull championship supposed to add to the big picture?
Who is the core constituency that you can count on to pay the time and money to compete for the US Multihull Championship and what does it mean?
Jeff, help me understand why the US Sailing Championship is $100 a day while the F16 National Championship is $50 a day. Espically when US Sailing brings a ready made sponsorship package to the table and has access to the Hyott Jolly fund.
Nail meet coffin.
I would love to hear the reasoning behind this from someone involved with US Sailing. They have sponsors and money in a fund yet find the need to fleece sailors just to race for the
Alter Cup
, which will mean alot less under the new format because everyone will be using their own boats, it's not controlled. Unfortunately this really doesn't surprise me.