US Sailing Championship Committee

Aaah, but they DO! It's called the NASCAR IROC series (Internatinoal Race of Champions). They race in identically prepared cars. In their case, however, they can afford for each driver to have their own car. The Alter Cup Championships in the past couldn't afford 20 boats or an event with only 10 teams...so a compromise was created.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Race_of_Champions

It's not the point of donating a boat, that's not the problem. It's donating a boat under the guise that the event can't afford to do it any other way. That's BS.
Maybe it's time to let the Alter Cup end it's useful life in a dignified way ,instead of turning it into something else that diminishes it's status. Start something else if wanted but start with a clean sheet.

It was IROC (International Race of Champions) that had identically prepared race cars. The drivers came from all sorts of racing

classes

; Indy, NASCAR, GT, Grand-AM...etc. Makes complete sense. It's about the driver. Don't mock what has been a great event with poor analogies.

Before the Hoyt-Jolley Fund was generously donated by Bill Jolley (thanks to Gordon Isco), the Alter Cup was supported by donated boats.

I've heard any number of complaints about too many races in a day! It's a speed event not endurance. Endurance is for events like Tybee.

True, but then entry fees would double from an already high figure because it's harder to afford a regatta of that magnitude with only 10 entry fees.

I'm not mocking anything, though I will if I choose! Is IROC still around?

Maybe the World Series should try playing with one set of gloves and bats. Some of the finest hitters in the world go to great lengths to make sure their bats are

just so

.

Funny you should ask...similar to what we're faced with, they couldn't find sponsors to sustain the event they'd had in place since the 70's and sold everything of in 2008. Just like the Alter Cup, they took in champions from other driving disciplines (mostly oval track stuff though).

Why lend? Why not charter the boats from individuals? Then get the manufacturer or sailmaker to supply sails that could be sold for cost after the regatta(money goes back to the manufacture/sailmaker). The manufacture/sailmaker gets the FREE advertising.
No contribution/ No advertising.
I thought I had read that the budget is 7K for charter boats. That would be $700 per owner.

Now the questions become:
How many people would provide a charter boat without sails for $700?
Could you get 10 charter boats of the same make?
And is there a market for these sails at cost?
Would a manufacture/sailmaker commit?

A lot of top athletes have all sorts of weird quirks about their equipment!

Can you imagine playing the Masters with one set of clubs?

I can't imagine 10 privately owned boats being in the same condition, particularly the bottoms.

This is your spin John. You are not correcting anything!

How about

they lump a bunch of services together which cost money and charge an overhead fee of 50 bucks to pay for them..... across the board to all championships

.

All I know is that a staff person has been on the conference calls for over 10 hours from 8 to 11 PM on a couple of occasions trying to keep the cats in line....

You were chair.... did you ever contact the other championship chairs and rally the other sailors around this perceived unfairness that US Sailing was getting the math wrong?

The overhead fee is what it is... Clubs bid knowing the deal.
Championship committee members see it in the budget sheet BEFORE THE CLUB FILLS IT OUT.

I have no idea what other championship committees think of the fee. Do you? Got any records you want to send over? Debating the fair market value of the stuff.... is a waste of time right now.

So... why the spin?

What is your goal here... make the conditions clear to the public? Drive an agenda? Cry me a river?

It seems that you want MS SOMEBODY to take on forming a new Multihull Championship. Find a sponsor... a group of volunteers WITH a Yacht Club or beach access and equipment to run an event. AND give the usual cast of characters a huge subsidy of boats and food for a regatta.... and this WILL be special. Actually sounds great to me. I would love to come. Let me know when the NOR is published.

Until then... Cut the spin crap.
It is not US Sailing controlling... it is a Commitee of sailors. It is a Yacht Club of sailors with an event proposal .. It is a PRO and Class Chair of sailors putting on an event.

The Championship committee is working on picking up the pieces of the 2011-12 Championship...Call Eric and Kevin for details. Final Details will be published soon. The minutes are clear and detailed.

We will BE WORKING on 2012-13 ASAP.

So... What is an elite sailor?
What is special about a championship?
What should One design Classes Do with the US Sailing Multihull Championship?

So far... I have heard:
get sailors to lend their boats and run the old program.
Get a big sponsor and work in the existing system.
Get a big sponsor and toss the system creating a new championship.
Borrow boats and get a manufacturer to provide new sails for the regatta and then resell them... for the marketing value of stickers on the sail.
???

I thought they were required to only use one set of clubs per event? no?

Mark, you can try to drown me in BS, but that doesn't make you correct. You say US Sailing doesn't make money on the event. You're factually incorrect. There is no spin. It is machine language 1 or 0.

<img src="<>/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh" height="15" width="15" /> Clumsey wording on my part! I meant one set for the entire field! But the intent was

reduction to absurdity

.

A better point would have been that one driver or putter won't fit every golfer, due to physical differences.

John you infer that US Sailing was making 50 bucks a sailor for the volunteers to run the regatta.

Do you want to stand by that inference?.

Perhaps you want to define... US Sailing MAKES MONEY.

Back on track.

So... What is an elite sailor?
What is special about a championship?
What should One design Classes Do with the US Sailing Multihull Championship?

So far... I have heard:
get sailors to lend their boats and run the old program.
Get a big sponsor and work in the existing system.
Get a big sponsor and toss the system creating a new championship.
Borrow boats and get a manufacturer to provide new sails for the regatta and then resell them... for the marketing value of stickers on the sail.
???

Pete, although the tuning discussion is a moot point unless we can get back to provided boats in some way or another, I do agree with you in principle. However, NASCAR guys keep their cars through the whole race (no rotation), and own their own cars; so the time sink to the event and risks to third-party owners mentioned by Jake don't exist for them. Sort of apples to oranges.

So tuning of provided boats is out, unless we wanted to have an event where the boats are only swapped daily (so as to avoid the speed of change issue), or not at all (lottery pick, keep the boat for the whole event). And before anyone spouts about how unfair the latter option would be, know that this is the norm for many high-profile (and $$$$$$) events, some even run by IROs, and is considered acceptably fair. NYYC Invitational on (privately-owned) Swan 42s comes to mind.

As for donating sails, again, no option is off the table. Just to be clear, Matt didn't say

free sails,

you basically pay cost (or something along those lines). This really only works where you have a large enough existing fleet, and takes effort by the OA and manufacturers (and any other sponsor they can line up to offset the cost), but is a great option.

As to comments about MEGA, it has been one of the most successful things the HCA has done. Class members love it. The reason it isn't done every year is that some folks like to race in more than one Hobie NAs (having them all at once forces you to pick just one), and it is a TON of work for the organizers, especially when being done at a remote location.

I love the outside-the-box thinking. The festival of regattas certainly has potential, and would be a great thing to get everyone together as a unified force of multihull sailors for US Sailing to see. I don't see doing this every year, but every 5 or 10 years would be cool. Cooler than any other reunion, at least...

Mike

Jesus, Mark...

back on track

because you've got nothing except,

it depends on what your definition of 'is' is.

OK, enough of this.

Fighting over what US Sailing does with its Rolex money will never move the ball forward.

I accept that US Sailing probably makes more money on this than I know about, and I really don't care. If it keeps their doors open as our MNA, that's fine with me.

At the end of the day, we have a trophy and an event to plan. We get some money towards achieving that goal before we even have to pick up a pen, make a phone call or send an email.

Let's work with that and move forward as a team.

Mike

OK in the race of campions in nascar they use donated cars by a manufacturer I'm suer you've heard of the IROCK serise and the drivers switch cars every race no altering cars between race you drive the car you are given ha ha ! ! ! ! SO if there is funding to pay a manufacture to use there boats then the money can go split fairly between those that donate there boats with at least 11 boats so as to have an alternate just in case.... People we need to resolve the broblem not create more.... all these great minds don't seem to be on the same page! ! ! ! Work with me hear and Mark and the others involved to resove this issue not make it worse ......OR use the money to buy a set of sails that will stay with the boat to go to the owner for donating his/her boat NOW what say you ??????

MHC has to make the call and they'll catch hell no matter which way they turn! <img src="<>/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh" height="15" width="15" />

If I get a vote, it's byob tune as you wish.

OR since the jibs are the sail that most offten goes first then new jibs for anyone willing to donate there boat ! ! ! OR the spinaker a complete set of sails mite be a little coastly so a jib and spin or the money there is a solution we need to find it not create a war about it... and in the IROCK serise as in the alter cup there is always a car that everyone perfers and says is faster but oh well it is what it is as they say ! ! ! !

Mark, nice walk around. I said CHARTER boats from individuals, not borrow.
That is why I posted the question about how many people might be interested in CHARTERING their boats for the Alter Cup.

Borrow boats and get a manufacturer to provide new sails for the regatta and then resell them... for the marketing value of stickers on the sail.

Not just the stickers on the sail. This would also include a large share of the event advertising.

Not sure what your line on this is but you seem to always push the week points and drop any strong points.

To me what makes tha Alter Cup what it is, is the FORMAT. Change it and you might as well not call it the Alter Cup. My opinion is to drop the current year and come back next year with the old format(give you a year to work out the details) vs just becoming another BYOB regatta. Like the LAC, if you change it you might never get it back.

How is boat insurance handled in the past Alter Cups, and how would it be paid, and by whom, if owners were to charter out (or 'loan') their boats?

Does US Sailing have an insurance program for loaner boats, as with the Swan 42's that were mentioned above?

No problem... I was using Alsail's idea of borrowed boats and adding the new sails bit.

What is your bottom line... other then cancel and find a fairy god mother.

Charter boats and get sails??? spell it out please

Pete, you have my vote for quote of the year!!!

Just for clarification, by MHC, you are referring to the Multihull Championship Committee here (not the Multihull Council, which technically has no say other than the one vote on the committee)...

Mike

My bottom line is to find a way to keep the format that the Alter Cup has have been using.
What I suggested is using the same funds that have been used in the past. No fairy godmother required. Just another way to source the boats.
The reason for the suggestion for supplied sail are two fold. borrowed sails would be the bigest variable and wear and tear on the sails is one of the biggest obstacals to chartering.

John you are the one who bubbled up only because you needed to provide input because you DECIDED YOU NEEDED TO CORRECT ERRORS.

and you spun out the

correction

in about as biased a way as possible.... leading one person to think that US Sailing was making money off of the sailors.

And your error correction was to move the ball forward HOW exactly... for 2012-13 and onwards.

I would be happy if you would just shut up about the debate.
I got it... you want US Sailing out of the championships... You. Dave and Tawd are going to build that new event.. Go for it. I can even put your name beside the idea.

We will BE WORKING on 2012-13 ASAP.

So... What is an elite sailor?
What is special about a championship?
What should One design Classes Do with the US Sailing Multihull Championship?

So far... I have heard:
get sailors to lend their boats and run the old program.
Get a big sponsor and work in the existing system.
Get a big sponsor and toss the system creating a new championship.
Borrow boats and get a manufacturer to provide new sails for the regatta and then resell them... for the marketing value of stickers on the sail.
Charter boats and use the Rolex and HJ money (2K) to provide sails for the charters using the same format
???

Is that it orphan?

Mark, thanks for pretending to know my mind, but in this regard you are pretty far off.

US Sailing is incontrovertibly making money off the sailors - they sell the Championships to sponsors and keep most of the proceeds, charge the host a per sailor fee, and require membership dues. There's nothing wrong with any of these things - you seem to want to, for some reason, deny it happens. Which is baffling.

that is your ax... Making money off of the sailors?...
One of those sailors would be you correct?

So... do you really think that Rolex wants to give YOU, John Williams or any sailor some money for attending a regatta?.... Or do you think they want to give money to the Organization(s) to brand the sport and the event with their trademark?...

If you think they are giving you...the money .... I guess you could say.. US Sailing is taking the money.. or US Sailing is making money off of the sailors. I think that is fuzzy thinking!

Me... I doubt they want to give individual sailors squat... I think of the Rolex money as given to the organizations putting on the show.... that would be US Sailing and the Yacht Club...

Why do you think anybody gives you a sponsorship...We are not a charity.... we are not doing good work... We are sailing and having a party.. The sponsor believes he will get something he wants.... It's a financial decision.

As ALSails noted... Johnny Lovell paid for his campaign out of pocket for the most part. THAT is the level of interest in giving money to sailors. Rolex is not giving sailors money that US Sailing is taking back or making money off of... THAT is a big lie!