US Sailing MHC: Alter Cup Survey Open Feb 15-20, 2012

Whatever it turns out to be, I'll give it a shot if at all possible.

Is it true that under Texel, F16 uni has to give time to sloops?

List of Texel ratings: http://www.watersportverbond.nl/data/documents/Zeilen/Texelrating/numdet%2024-9-2011.pdf

Thanks Jeff. 102 w/spin, 1 or 2 up.

The crew column indicates 1 - Uni.

Dave, If you scroll down the list there is another entry for two up. The list is sorted by number of crew.

You guys are getting wayyy ahead of the regatta.

Back to the heart of the matter, and the survey:

Should the Alter Cup be a ladder event, where only the

qualifed

top 10-20 saiors race, or should it be an Open event, with a hundred cats of all types, all on one line, racing Portsmouth (or Texel, chose one) for the one, overall, Multihull Championship?

Beyond the survey, there has been no call for public comment. An error, imo.

But, I'll give it a shot and make up my mind from firsthand experience.

I indicated that I would prefer the ladder type event, with a few slots for petition. That said, I would probably sail a handicap event if it had a large, high quality fleet. Sailed a texel regatta over the weekend and it was still fun racing, although there were certainly times being the scratch boat both helped and hurt us.

Sadly guys it's going to be the whatever the employees of US Sailing want. The volunteers and sailors will have little say if any on what the championship will be. It's pretty clear from the feedback Mike has received from the employees (Jack and Liz) and posted here that it's going to play out that way. According to US Sailing (based on posts in this thread) most of us have aged out anyway.

Age. You think that could stand a court challenge? I suspect USS is a bit of an empty coat, not many members for the mandate they have and their lack of open representation would not stand a challenge.

Again, I pledge $100 towards a court challenge.

And what do they care how many boats show up anyway?

Sounds to me like they only want a big turnout to generate more money...for US Sailing, as was mentioned in an earlier post, only what, 10% of the Alter Cup fees went to the actual event, and the other 90% went to US Sailing...for...??

The rule books?
The the office rent?
The salaries of the full time office people, or all of the above?

Either challenege the status quo or accept it.

I thought that was the whole point of the survey...we just have to wait for the results, see what the Majority want to do.

Where was there mention of a majority? Or mention of any specific action?

I think this is what's happening: a new group of volunteers is very zealously trying to do something good for multihull sailing; at the same time the old guard is throwing out this red herring survey as evidence they are trying to represent their constituency.

Does anyone have an actual copy of the survery? I did not save one.

Dave... get real ! ...

US sailing knows they don't have boats, clubs, people to run an event... of ANY size... (the Miami YC's and volunteers from around the country come together to put on the OCR's.) The rank and file have to support the final decision or nothing is going to happen. There will be no boots on the ground. So, they will do what ever the consensus is from the cat sailing world... Problem is... there is no consensus.
(I know it's painful for what ever group steps up to work with USSA and make it happen but that is really a secondary issue)

The elite + qualifier regatta championship support has fallen apart....
Now what?

Eliminate the qualifiers and make it petitions or selection?
Reformat the championship?

The mixed multihull class is a new variable... perhaps the energy behind the Olympic push will make the USSA championship relevant.

I have no idea what the best way forward is right now. BUT... the problem is us... we have to figure out what we want and then make it happen. (the amount of USSA BS is just sand in the beach wheels.)

It's really not just sand in the beach wheels. There has been quite a bit of difference between the resources provided by US Sailing toward the Adult Multihull Championship and other Championships.

And those championships are cratering as well (cancelled) and under review in this whole process.

Seems to me... you need the Volunteers to put on the event... the Sailors to spend the money to race the event... You need the paid staff to maintain the process year over year.

I must have missed that in the conversation - is this the case?

under review in this whole process.

They might try open elections.

I found this in the 2011 report. Hardly a huge organization with unlimited funding capability.

40,000+ members. Membership revenue of $1.67 mil.

We were told at the MHC council meeting by an MHC member that they were cancelling one of the major championships for lack of interest as well. I have not confirmed the fact.

The general economy is in the toilet, and has been for what, 4 years now? That probably has more to do with the 'lack of interest' in sailboat racing than the way the Championships are run.

It might be 'lack of money' more than lack of interest.

The two cheapest classes are still the most popular, numbers wise, the Hobie 16 for cats and the Laser for mono-dinghys. But I'll bet even they are feeling the pinch this economy has put on everything deemed 'non-essential'.

So they want to put no money in. They want to draw money out of our event. And they want to tell us how to run our event. Makes perfect sense to me.

We had the US Sailing Champion on Champions on our lake here. They used borrowed Flying Scots and bought new sails for all the boats. They invited all the class champions and most didn't come. They have trouble finding a venue to host them. They invite

big names

in sailing and they have a hard time getting them to come. Paul Cayard came to our event and folks were quite excited to have a big name come to that event.

So the way they do the event is about 10 steps below how our multihull event is run. The level of competition is the best of the best at the multihull event. Often all the big names are there.

We run an event that they can only wish to run but they want us to change?

Yes.

edit; Mike, while your point may valid, the fact is we have a clean slate. Better to abandon talk about what was and focus on what can be. I'm surprised there is even debate about the success of the previous finals, but the fact we can't even agree on the term,

success

is an interesting barometer. I'm sure there is more news coming as the current effort comes more into focus.

Far more interesting is where the nacra inter 17R is rated. 104 under texel compared to 102 for F16's and 100 for F18's. Quite a bit faster then under us D-PN

USS owns the rights to Alter Cup. If that's correct it is their event. Plus, they have $1.67 mil in current receipts to budget for how many championships less other expenses which are paid from dues. As a gross amount that's $41/person give or take.

I'm beginning to lean in favor of USS, I just wish it was easier to dig up information.

Agreed in full!

Mark,

I 100% agree without volunteers events don't happen. But do you need paid staffers to make the same events happen? I'm sure this is where you and I will disagree.

I don't know how much experience you've had working with US Sailing and trying to make a regatta happen but when they want to be they can be extremely difficult to work with (yes I'm sure they felt the same about me, I'm not really a go with the flow kind of guy). US Sailing really doesn't bring much to the table $$ wise either. After they get their cut the host club gets about $3K in sponsorship money. As far as needing paid staffers to keep it all going...maybe but I can tell you with a great deal of confidence that there is at least one paid staffer that could be replaced by volunteers. Wouldn't it be nice if the funding for that staff member was funneled directly into the championships.

Because US Sailing doesn't bring a lot of $$ to the table and the paid staffers aren't contributing to the success of the championship (based on my direct experience), is the championship really being served by its association with US Sailing? This idea has already been floated within US Sailing so I know we will lose the right to call it a championship and we will lose the trophy if that path is taken.

If this is going to end up being a BYOB DPN

Championship

then there really is NO value in keeping the championship oops, King of the World Cup with US Sailing. At one time I supported keeping the championship with US Sailing because it was the one thing we could hold up say this is a reason to be involved with US Sailing, but now... I think we are better served by serving ourselves.

Does anyone think the survey will turn up something surprising?

I don't think there is some groundswell of opinion to push this debate in any direction that you can suss out of a survey. If the championship is not held in 2012 or the future, I doubt that there will be much of blip.

IMO, 3/4 of the cat racers simply don't care to sort through the many issues...

US Sailing is going to want ONE mission statement for all of the championships they run..

The MHC council and the one design class leadership should then prepare a couple of proposals and put them up for a vote.