Here, here, Mary.
When I see parent buying $50,000+ power boats so they can take their kids wake boarding, I have no qualms asking a parent to fork over $10,000 on a
brand spankin' new
Hobie or SL 16.
I have a h16 with spin.We need to develop h16spin and sl16 regional racing.My son has raced both boats.Both are good youth and adult platforms.I request that the US Sailing Portsmouth committee give these boats an official rating [about dpn73] and allow them to race in the Alter cup eliminations.If a difference in speed is detected then change the rating but there should be continued h16-sl16 events with portsmouth modification to encourage youth development.Also,why not
do the next two Alter cups in these boats.I bet Performance Cats would do it .It would be good for Hobie too
PS.I bet the kid raising the chute in John W. post above will win the Art Stevens trophy more than once.
When I see parent buying $50,000+ power boats so they can take their kids wake boarding, I have no qualms asking a parent to fork over $10,000 on a
brand spankin' new
Hobie or SL 16.
Oh man, is it really at $10,00 already? I thought it was around $8500 or something like that?
More like $13,250 with spin, snuffer, and trailer.
You don't have to buy a NEW boat. Just a good used boat and add the spinnaker kit. Most people don't buy their teenagers brand spanking new cars, do they? I hope not. <img src=
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How much were those F16's again ?
And Mam & Dad can sail/race that baby as well.
Wouter
Parents are not going to buy a boat unless there is a program worth the time!
When you want to go racing... What's the number one piece of advice... Oh... just find the local active and biggest fleet, join up, get a boat, go racing.
No different for junior racers....
What program would you point this parent to check out?
hmm.... perhaps that is a problem.
We already have a
program.
The problem is that it is the parents who are sailing in it -- all the regattas available to us catamaran sailors. Let the kids sail and let the parents work race committee and/or coach the kids.
Not pretending to have the answers here, but I agree with a few of the items above. There are parents out there in the Opti program that are buying $20,000 plus inflatables, paying coaches, buying new Optis at over $3000 each, etc. The program is what matters (meaning, regattas with 90 boats, sailing schools to get them started, etc.).
Certainly, we're not going to get there overnight. Going the elite route is a good idea, but again, we need to be careful about where we're getting our sailors. If we're
stealing
kids from mono programs, that will lead to getting uninvited in a big hurry. How elite can we be without a multihull in the Olympics, or is that not really a factor?
I think the sponsorship idea is great, but this takes a lot of time for a dedicated person (or group) to make sure it continues beyond a one-time occurance.
Mike
IMO, that is the long term damage of the ISAF decision.
Nevertheless... we still have the ISAF youth championships and a OD youth world championship that is a pretty good carrot to chase.
Stealing kids .... not a good word.... Try CROSS TRAINING!
The goal is to get kids who race... cross training in performance boats. Of course, we want them in cats... the skiffy's want them in 29ners.. The skiffy's have a bit of head start... but not an overwhelming lead... on the east coast the 29ner has not caught on... it's stil a 420 world out there... Surely we can pull 10 to 20 good teams off of a 420 for three events a season!
Well, it's just like the AC. Taking time off your
normal
mono, to sail one (or three) events on a cat is not the same as having youth cat sailors. They'll go back to their 420 unless we can convince them to buy cats and stick with it. That's where we need the long-term plan...
Mike
It's a start... We are not talking perfection here!
Moreover, I think that when they turn 25 or so... and are looking at a boat/class to get into... what are there choices?
crew on a monohull.
existing monohull classes (laser vanguard 15, albacore, snipe, lighting, thistle jet 14 flying scot hampton od 505 j22)
existing cat fleet (h16,18 h20, F18,F16 N20 or single handded (Wave (Aclass, H17, N17)
I will take my chances on that investment.
In the Pacific Northwest (Area L), we sent 3 teams to the Youth Multihull Championship in 2007. One skipper 'graduated' and was not young enough. His crew wanted to go this year. But she would've been a one-time flash in the pan. The Championships were a way for her to get some good competition cross-training for her mono campaign. She was not committed one iota to multis.
One of the other skippers broke his leg in a skateboarding accident and was out for a year. His dad owns a Tiger, so he'll be back this summer. The other skipper was the daughter of a Tiger owner who also had a bad accident and was sidelined. She was brand new and very green. We expect both kids to be back this summer. One of our
up and coming
youth is the daughter of a multi sailor.
Results from the Pac NW -- the kids are coming from the families, not from other classes. The top notch kids in other classes are staying in those classes. We might get some crossover from other classes in the lower ranks, and some of those might even do well on multis. But the rank-and-file youth multi sailors are gonna come from families that already sail multis, and kids that have little exposure to sailing prior to jumping in.
As for the parents giving up their boats so the kids can jump on them, I don't see that happening. We are all too selfish and passionate about our sailing to do that on a consistent level. A few might; but not the masses. Area L parents are buying 16s for their kids and double-stacking them to regattas. It works sweet.
Pacific Northwest Area “L” & Division 4 Youth Sailing
We are in 2008 and our sailing season is just around the corner. There is a lot planned for this year.
Out here in the Northwest we have put together a plan for 2008. It builds on great work by very dedicated sailors. This year we have several events that are going to focus on getting the kids on the water in a bit of a different environment where they are the focus for the event.
See attached Youth Letter by Laura Sullivan, a wonderful job of inviting our local young people out to sail this year.
We hope to increase the level of youth participation in cat sailing, whether it is recreational, cruising or racing. We want to draw in a new group to go along with the existing youth sailors we have. It will begin with fun & familiarization, skills, then racing.
Our goal is to make it as easy for the kids to participate in sailing as we can. All of our events are free to the youth that are participating. And most of the costs so far are being covered by donations.
Here is a list of what we have planned,
Potholes Warm Up , April 4-6, the first outing for the kids. We are bringing 8 Waves and various other boats. No racing just fun on the water.
Hobie 101 & Youth Clinic , May 10, planned as a racing skills clinic for the kids.
Summer Celebration , July 26 & 27, Youth only regatta.
This regatta is a two-day event for the multi- hull sailing youth of the Pacific Northwest. You are invited to sail in any of the various skilled fleets available. There is a spot that is just right for you! H16s and Waves avaiilable.
Oktoberfest , September 27 & 28, youth only regatta
Another regatta that is a two-day event for the multi- hull sailing youth of the Pacific Northwest. H16s and Waves available.
These are four events that there will not be adult racing at. We hope to grow a new crop of youth sailors not only from the dingy fleets, but from our families and friends. Hopefully this is only a start.
Mike Hensel
Hobie Fleet 95, Div 4
US Sailing Area “L” Rep.
How much were those F16's again ?
And Mam & Dad can sail/race that baby as well.
Wouter
Yes and the kids would rather be sailing an F16 no question about that. <img src=
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Let's face it US Sailing has failed miserably and the sport is now in dire straits in part because of that failure. <img src=
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Are you talking about all aspects of the sport or just multihulls?
It appears to me that there are more youth sailors actively racing now in the United States and around the world than ever before in the past. <img src=
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The crowd we should be going after is the 18-24. Usually don't have any commitments, (wife, kids, mortgage), and have some disposable income. When I fit into this bracket I had 4 motorcycles sitting in my garage.
In the United States, the baby boomers, born between 1946 and 1964, make up 77 million people. How many of those are now sailing, or have sailed in the past? The Millenial/Internet/Y generation, born between 1982 and 2000, make up 75 million people. See any correlation? That's why numbers are up. Generation X (the baby busters) population is around 31 million. The oldest Millenial
customer
is 26 and ready to buy something. Karl is right on with the target market, they're between the ages of 8 and 26 right NOW, and time keeps ticking. Where is the F12 when you need it? <img src=
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After many regattas where the manufacturer supplies boats those
used
boats are sold at a discount. The Alter Cup Blades sold quickly.
Did ANY of the parents of the Youth Multihull Championship racers buy an SL16 for themselves or their kids?
No. And the boats are deeply discounted. Two have been moved a couple of blocks over to the US SAILING center because the winning team wants to continue training for Denmark. The other eight were de-rigged - I have taken four back to the factory in Santa Ana where Performance is taking them apart and putting them in boxes. I have four more to stack up and take back.
The kids at the event who are catsailors (like Evan) sail with their family, like Peter pointed out. The kids who have dinghies already own monohulls. I'm hoping a couple of yacht clubs might want to pick up one or two before I load them up...
Why would you buy a boat for one regatta a year?
This is a chicken and egg problem.
It can't be solved by a handful of individual parents of sailing kids at this time....
There is something very interesting under the surface here.
We have a new cat design, aimed at kids, that can't be sold. We have people trying to come up with other new cat designs to be aimed at kids.
People may have other opinions, but I see the key to this as the regatta and support network (DUH). Hobie 16s continue to thrive because of this. Hobie Waves are strong in pockets, but many owners are never told about the local fleets or racing by dealers. I've heard a dealer say, many times to many people: You don't want to race this boat.
There are a ton of Waves out there, I don't think it would take much to get them to some events, even just
fun
races.
I really don't see new designs, no matter how brilliant, fixing the shrinking regatta problem any time soon.
Mike
They may be having some trouble getting the class started in NA but I think in EU there are quite a few KL5.5s and SL16s around. ISAF partly based their decision on the strength of the existing fleets.
Dave's right - good-sized fleets of SL16s and Hobie 16s with spinnakers in other countries. It is the US where the problem is so pronounced.
Don't even get me started!! I mean, why is Europe driving the international multi scene? The U.S. is a big, powerful country in most circles. Why aren't we getting an ear into ISAF. I believe we need to start allocating resources to shmooze and booze the boys at ISAF.
But enough of that tangent! In North America, the boat of choice for youth should be the Hobie 16. Not because it is a 'better' boat. It probably isn't. But because it is so dang common. The SL 16 reinforces that. Performance made a boat specifically (or so it seems) for the youth market and they can't even get one taker! We need to use the existing stock, and that means the Hobie 16 (like it or not). (But if your area has something different, then use that!)
Just get the kids on the water -- that's the ticket. Mike Hensel points out the opportunities available in Area L. If you don't build it, they won't come!!! Have youth events and make sure they are YOUTH events -- not adult events where kids are invited. Play music, show videos (cool vids, not the learning kind!), have games and good food.
Rather than all of us sitting around our computers bitchin' and whinin' about the youth dilemma, why not get off our sorry butts and plan one -- just one -- youth event in 2008 for our respective area? Heck, take them out on F18s (chaperoned, I would recommend!), if that is all you got. Just get them out!
Rather than poach from mono fleets, get YOUR kids on the water (as Mary suggested). Get their friends to come along so it is more fun.
It is easier give birth than resurrect the dead.
Have Fast & Fun weekends like Caleb Tarleton does in our area where strangers can take 20 min. rides for free to introduce newbies. There are a ton of great ideas for events.
This is a call to action -- a challenge, if you will. Why doesn't each person who has posted on this thread with an impassioned plea look themselves in the mirror, get the pencil and paper and calendar out, and put a outh event together? Right now...in the winter...when we are all inside. YOU can make a difference. It starts with YOU. Not me, not the guy in your fleet. YOU are the one reading this post. So make it happen!
If you will build it, they will come.
If you go to the Sirena web site that talks about the SL16, they mention that they have a fleet of 650 SL15.5 and SL16s. This probably refers mostly to France. How many Hobie 16s with spin are there in NA? 20, 30 maybe? That is why Europe is driving the bus.
Hey Peter!
I hear your battle cry! I would love to build a Youth cat event in my area. I have some potential contacts that could help facilitate.
The big problem has been that people in our fleet that have had kids have disappeared, with their time taken over by the kids' other hobbies and interests.
I will discuss finding a way to set up a Youth event to try to get some of them back, but most of those kids are probably way too young to handle a H16, and that's the slowest boat we have in any sufficient numbers.
The spin issue is another monster to conquer. We're in a Catch-22, we need them for the youth, but the adults (who control the funds) are adamantly against them in the US.
I guess my question is, if we build it, will they come? Only one way to find out, I guess.
Mike
Brucat,
I know you love the Hobie product line but there is one thing you a overlooking continiously.
Hobie 16's and Hobie Wave do well maybe in the USA, but outside of that area, it is a very big question mark. Sure there are many H16's about, but attracting kids to them is like beating a dead horse when dad and uncle bill are sailing F18's and A-cats. The Wave and the Bravo are as rare as diamonds outside of the USA.
With respect to new designs, their is a very interesting precedent in the blokart landyacht design. It's market share simply exploded the world over because it struck the right balance between fun, good looks and ease of use and storage/transportation.
In my opinion neither the H16 nor the wave or bravo strike such a balance.
Now I admit that I don't see eye to eye with many F12 designers either for the very same reasons. But it is simply not fair for you to diss the
new design
projects simply because there has been a ton of h16's around (most of which are now part of landfills)
I just wanted to say that.
Wouter
Guys,
More and more I'm convinced of the following.
I we want to get kids hooked on sailing then landyachting is the ticket. Cheap, simple, very exiting and very easy in the space requirement. Again, an empty parking lot at a mall will do the trick. These sailcrafts are alot cheaper as well.
More and more I'm in awe of the succes the blokarts are achieving. They have sold thousants of these craft over the last 7 years or so.
Right now on my favourite landyachting beach in NL you can see tens of such craft. Actually many adventure companies use these for team building days and other group arrangements. These craft are that easy to master that a total novice can sass it out in 10 minutes.
Remember, this is landyachting ! A sport more
elite and rare
then any of the other of the windsports.
Maybe get them hooked on sailing first and then switch them over to waterborn craft for the summer months ?
Wouter