what to get??

Single handed? Crew? All up crew weight? Price range? What part of the country?

prefer single handed, but i have good crew avail, I am 6'4" and 'bout 230lbs. North shore Lake Erie (where there are no cats) East Coast of Florida winters (Treasure Coast) not too woried bout budget or travel time

<img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" /> F16. What else?

IF you need the option of 1 or 2; the F16 is IMO, top of the list. YOu can have sailss cut to your weight etc....

sails cut for my weight? nice, um hmm, looking into this further, thanks

Hips,
You should consider a few others before you decide.

Acat - single handed, high end, high cost, lots of racing, high level of competition, box rule so you can tweak and change your boat within the 7 rules, boats hold their value well, lots of used boats for less money, $6k for a used older boat, to $25k for a new all carbon min weight. Unirigged, easily rigged, lightweight, easy to move around on the beach. www.usaca.org

F18 - Quickly becoming the 2 man class for racing, multiple manufactures (Hobie, Nacra, etc) tighter ruleset, lots of high caliber racing. New boats in the $16k - $18k range. http://www.f18-international.org/

N20 - Lots of nice boats for sale, used to be the defacto 2 man racer, being taken over by the F18. Lots of good used boats around. Check the classifieds on this website. $7k - $10k used. Lots of the distance races still done on the N20 including the Tybee500. http://www.tybee500.com/

Hips,

North shore of LE puts you in southern Ontario between Fort Erie and Leamington during the summer. The F18 class has really taken off in Ontario...especially the GTA. Hobie Fleet 276 holds an annual regatta at Port Burwell that draws a larger number of Tigers. For more info check out www.cat-alist.com www.ontariosailing.ca or www.hobieclass.com

I guess someone has a stake in those boats?

My post got deleted, and it had no derrogatory or cussing, etc. Just an opinion.

Todd, are you SURE your post was deleted here in the Open Forum? As far as I know, Rick and I are the only ones who have the capability of deleting a post, and it certainly was not either of us. <img src="<>/frown.gif" alt="frown" title="frown" height="15" width="15" />

How big is your crew and how much experience does the crew have? Also, if you will be sailing alone more than two up, check the weight of the boat you are buying, as you will be moving it and stepping the mast alone too. Lighter is better, obviously.

I recomend a spinnaker cat of some type. All the F's have them. F16, F17, F18 two up and I20.Sailing downwind solo on a fast spinnaker cat in a 20 knot blow is about the most demanding sailing you can do. Expect to go swimming a few times until you figure it out.

I sail the north shore of Erie quite a bit.
There a fair number of cats at Turkey Point.
Long Point Bay is one of the best sailing areas for cats.
Flat water and warm water in the summer

Buy the cat you feel you'll get the most use from.

this input is good thanks all, and keep em comin'. ya i agree there will be some learining and swimming involved. I think my size is the issue that first must be resolved, which boat/fleet is better for a big guy? i remember from my fireball days, when i was Teabag, politely asked to stay ashore <12k breeze. when i was at the back of the boat, i of course did much better in heavy air. I realize that was then, and this will be much different. but its where i come from so it plays in the back of the mind.
I agree a spin. boat without a doubt, prefer no crew, I have dealt with crew for many years........
I really like the option of 2 with the F16's however by no means the deciding factor. I will go with the class that gives me distance races, and adventure as a real option.

I love Turkey Point! and yes there is a fair bit of cat sailing there i agree. Not far from me either (welland canal). is anyone orginized there tho? events? (other than pawdahawk?)not sure the spelling on that one.

buy the cat you feel you'll get the most use from.

is good advice, no doubt. some long distance races, good, strong, well attended, fun, and competitive events. and a boat that is well suited for a guy who is 6'4" and 230#. (so as not to determine my position at the start). When i can match these two criteria........

There are a lot of F16's in Central Florida, but not many up where you live I think. If racing is what you want to do, find the most active fleet near you up there, see what they are racing, and maybe get a ride, see how you like it. When you are in Florida you can check out any local regatta and see all the different types there.

The Blade F16 is built up in Titusville, on the east coast just north of Cocoa Beach if you want to get a close up look.

A great opportunity to shop would be to show up at the Tradewinds Regatta, Key Largo, this Jan. 17-18. All the different type cats will be there.

Todd, i would not delete a post, even if i could. goes against the basic premis or ideals of this whole internet thing. Speak your mind, i am looking for input....... repost?

thanks i will make a serious attempt to get to Largo for the regatta

You live less than 70km from me.There alot of used cats at Sherkston, mostly Hobies. I believe there are a few for sale.
I would really consider buying the boat in the U.S. better prices and a much bigger selection.
Get a test sail before you buy.

Fred

Sherkston Shores is another great place for cats, never any organized events however. Yes i will be buying a boat in Florida or ??. this season. hopefully something used and ready to race. New boats are great, but i hate chasing gremlins, and making changes from new. the idea is to get into a boat/class that is a good match for me. 70Km? Hamilton?

Ancaster same as Hamilton.

Fred

Some impartial advice (I've had a foot in most the discussed camps to some extent).

F18 (including Hobie tiger etc)

At 230lbs your crew will need to be 130 lbs or below if you want to be competitive outside of local club level. This boat offers everything you've said you're after including an increasing long distance scene.

F16. Would be ideal for you single handed and a main could be built to your weight. If you want to sail 2 up (at the highest level) you'll need a crew below about 90 lbs

A Cat. The highest developed of the bunch, you can order off the shelf a boat to suit you. I believe there is a US design that suits the bigger boned sailor. Someone will chip in with the model, its slipped my mind. Once you've chosen a platform then pick a sail maker and they'll work with you to develop a mast/sail combo to suit your weight and selected boat.

To my knowlege (from the other side of the world) there is however very little distance sailing done on As or F16s except at a local club level.

If your main priority is the distance stuff then the N20 may be the go, however, they are currently/about to go through a rule shake up with a new mast and the F18s appear to be starting to match them number wise at the distance races (T500 etc). So if this option is attractive probably wait a while to see what comes out in the wash.

Good luck

C'mon guys, I know you love your F16's but the guy is 6'4 and 230lbs! The F16 route would leave him single handing only. F18 or N20 can get you to the distance races comfortably. Go with a Tiger and you have a little less leeway with crew weight. The Nacra Infusion is a little better with more weight. At your weight, I would highly recommend the N20 although the more competetive crowd is heading to the F18. That's not to say the N20 fleet is any sort of a pushover. There's still plenty of very competetive sailors in it. With your weight, you wont be dissapointed at all with the N20.

um, ya/no much better. i lived in Dundas, when i went to Mac, deGroot hall. good times. where you sailin'?

Scarecrow
thanks by opening up some realities, exactly what i am looking for. you give me much to consider. N20 with diminishing numbers may give me better results, and enough exposure to make a transition in a few years, or on the flatter line of my learning curve. this may well be the way to go.
if i can actually get the curve to flatten! i could transition into Acat's, or the F16 or what suits my ability and interest. hopefully not ending up in the

also ran

category.

Chums
I agree thanks. often the class that is just off the radar provides exactly what i need right now.

Ah... somebody with a fair bit of racing experience looking for a class that focuses on a certain niche.... very different then the casual guy looking for the right boat.

You obviously have some thoughts on the kind of racing that you want to get involved in. It sounds like you prefer the distance race format over buoys.

Your options for distance racing will be limited if you go with a single handed class. There is not that much interest among the single handed racers for those epic journey type races. Safety is an issue for both you and the organizing authority.

Almost all distance races are scored on handicap since fleet size is problematic. Some races that would be of interest and are close to you are:
Red Fox regatta in Michigan contact Cram
A Canadian Distance Race in Ontario, contact Pitchpole Dave
The New England 100 in Naragansat Bay, contact Rick Bliss
The Statue of Liberty Race at Sandy Hook Bay Catamaran Club.
The Storm Trysail Annapolis to Hampen, contact CRAC
The Annapolis to Oxford and the Race Back Contact CRAC
The Version 2.7 race Contact Fleet 32 in Va Beach
Ohio has a distance race of 20 miles at Put in Bay
The major Florida Distance Races, (SteepleChase, Miami to key Largo, Hogsbreath 100 and the River Race) The Macho man in Tampa plus a big distance races in the Panhandle/Fort Walton and a couple of shorter races on the east coast of Florida.
Of course the Tybee 500 and the Great Texas races are limited to two man teams...
Make sure you can play single handed in the events that interest you.

If you are interested in Line Honors/ first to finish... Consider the Marstrom 20... Only 2 boats in the US but it's the fastest boat we have here.

If you want distance races coupled with the chance for a large sub class... Get a Nacra 20. (and they are good for a couple of buoys race turnouts a year including NA's, Trade winds, Spring Fever and two events on the Chesapeake (not including the Wisconsin fleet),

If you want distance races coupled with a project to recruit the larger number of buoy's racers on F18's to the cause of doing distance races... go with an F18. Your crystal ball will be needed to forecast the fleet interest/growth in the next 3 years.

If you want a two man buoy racer you should pick the F18 It is a national class with large fleets in Canada and upstate New York and a growing fleet in New England.

If you want a strong single handed class, the A class is national compared to the F17 or F16 which are regional classes. A Michigan fleet is now up to 5-6 boats with a very strong fleet in Bristol RI. Get a hold of Steve Clark for advice, he is your size and has sailed and built several A class boats.

If you want a spin single hander, the F16 would allow your sailmaker to build sails to your weight but the class racing is spotty.. the F17 class would be a lot closer to you and they have a stronger class schedule in CRAM, Ohio and the Panhandle.

At 230 pounds... unless you have a strong 120 lb crew lined up with the same interest in going racing.... you are best off looking at one of the two 20's. I would look to get in a race on all of them if possible to narrow your choice.

Have fun!

Sail out of Burlington Sailing at LaSalle, racing twice a week with controlled access, mast up storage. It's also has very resonable rates

Fred

I'd second on the N-20 ,for your weight it's the one. I'm 190 and have problems finding crews that would be competitive on an F-18.I've sailed a N-20 for the last 8 years, just got an A cat also. The serious distance scene in the US is more dominated by N-20s. F-18s are registering for more distance races i.e. Tybee 500, but most of those guys will admit that the extra 2 feet makes a difference.F-18s(because it's a formula class) are being advanced and improved more than the N-20 (one design) though. There's 2 good and fast N-20s in the classifieds right now.
Todd
p.s. Welcome to the Dark Side.

dude, you are well versed in the world of cat sailing. thank you for the well thought out reply. i read your post and find myself putting together an itenary. I sincerly did not know there were so many events so close to home.
Line Honours is a lofty goal, and i appriciate the input, but will not risk showing up with a Porsche, and drive it like a VW (yet) I have learned that lesson for life.
Yes i am interested in the distance races, they seem a greater challange, phyical, mental, logistical, etc. and am sic to death of going 'round cans, ending where i started, too long attached to a big ugly hunk of lead i suppose.
The realities of double handed are sinking in, and i can live with that. I will look into this F17 business, as the events are a bit more local. then on to the N20.
these 500 mile races are interesting, but i think it wise to be honest 'bout the realities of life, health, family etc. but perhaps.
Very happy to have a direction so soon, thanks again
I will keep you posted

Hipps said,

I agree a spin. boat without a doubt, prefer no crew, I have dealt with crew for many years........

If you go with the F18 or Inter 20, you can ONLY race WITH CREW.

I had an Inter 20, it's a great two up boat and I sailed mine solo but not racing. The racing rules require you to race it two up even in light air. Oh, and it weighs about 400lbs. compared to 230 for the F16.

If you have good, regular crew and want to race distance, especially in the ocean or the big lakes where big wind and big waves are a factor, the Inter 20 is the prefered ride, no doubt.

If you want to sail solo in big wind, or race solo, do triangles, or two up when it's really blowing, the F16 will be a good ride as well but will obviously not take the waves like a 20 footer. The F18 is a compromise between the two but must be raced two up per their rules, but can be sailed solo when not racing.

What we all really need is about 4-5 boats. An A cat, F16, F18, I20 and a 60' tri for those distance races! <img src="<>/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin" height="15" width="15" />