Demasting

i think demasting is like an initiation for cat sailing

i think demasting is like an initiation for cat sailing

😆 I agree. It's really the worst thing that can happen next to sinking.

Glad you were prepared with the phone and got home safe. I once saw a beachcat get home after a demasting by jury-rigging a mast from the boom and lines, kind of a crab-claw setup.

I've had this happen to me twice this season!

The first time was on a Hobie 16 when the shackle at the base of the starboard shroud disappeared. Fortunately there was a shroud extender that held so the mast stayed up well enough for us to get back to shore.

The second time was in a Hobie Wave when the port shroud snapped at the base. That time I was upwind of my launch site so I laid the mast athwartship held up the sail by the leech.

I think one thing worse than demasting (and right up there with sinking) is to have your boat capsize and then blow away from you. Even with a chase boat and other sailboats around, it can be really tough to spot someone in heavy air/seas.

A lot of the guys I sail with (many of the boats are single-handed F17 and A-Cats) carry VHF not just on the boat, but attached to their life vests. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, having a radio on board might be a USCG requirement.

Wow. Glad to hear a happy ending to this story. I recently purchased a floating, Uniden VHF portable marine radio and based upon this story, will be careful to make sure I take it with me. My last trip, I forgot to bring it along and it sat in the car while I was out on the boat. Kinda defeats the purpose.

A VHF radio is not required by the US Coast Guard but they do take the time to list it under "recommended items"....and it's the first one on that list. Seems to me if they take the time to do that, it should be strongly considered.

I've been holding back on telling my new experience partly because of embarrasment but here goes.....

A couple weeks ago, I was out on the wire when a splice on my trapeze rig failed and I dropped into the water like a stone.
I had the mainsheet and tried to let go of it as quick as possible, but still sheeted in quite a bit. I surfaced in time to watch my wife valantly try to get the windward hull down but it was too late. She sailed away a couple hundred yards and then capsized. Fortunately, the tide was coming in and I was able to swim the 200 yards back to the boat but was EXHAUSTED by the time I got back to her. Too exhausted to right the boat. We could not get our bows into the wind because of the tidal current. Yes, we had our weight forward on the hull but the current must have been negating the effort. There was no way I would have been able to swim the mast around.
Fortunately, we had our VHF radio tied to the boom so I called the Coast Guard for help. We were in a pretty desolate area and figured the radio was not going to reach anyone but fortunately they heard me and sent 2 RBI's out to help us. I had them lift the mast end and the boat popped right up and we got back on.

I learned several things from the experience.
1) Put a radio on each person's vest instead of keeping it on the boat. If my wife had sailed any further away and capsized, there is no way I could have swam back to the boat. Then, I would have been screwed floating in the water with nothing but my whistle.
2) Don't tie "safetly" equipment onto the boat. Fasten it so it can be easily retrieved. I could not untie the GPS to tell the CG my position. The CG had me count to 10 so they could triangulate my position. I actually had to break the dry bag holding my radio because I couldn't untie the stupid knot I tied to hold it to the boom. Which brings me to....
3) Just because a radio is submersible does NOT mean it floats!! I handed the radio to my wife and she dropped it into the water. I thought it would pop to the surface but realized pretty quickly that our radio sunk. Fortunately, it was after the CG had our position.
4) Finally, put signalling devices onto your vest. We capsized late in the afternoon and could easily have had a situation where one of us is floating alone after dark. We had whistles on each vest but that was it.

What was funny was the next day, we headed to West to replace the radio and guys in the store heard the "pon pon" go out on the CG band. Of course, West had many suggestions on what safety gear we needed. Now each vest has a whistle, radio, mirror, knife, light sticks and a flashing LED. I feel like inspector gadget with all these things on my vest but think I'm ready for just about everything.

Now if I could just learn to splice a line so that it doesn't fail!

Edited by ericweller on Sep 19, 2011 - 09:26 PM.

We have had a number of incidents this year. I'm thinking we need to increase education a bit. Carrying a vhf, a gps, a length of good line, maybe some food and water. The great lakes or any large body of water are no place to get stuck. Also dress appropriately. You might be out there for a while. A fellow sailor just this weekend had his hull open up along the keel. A seven year old perfect h16. I mean go figure. Filled up with water, capsized, could not right the boat without additional help. I have had a mast buckle and a side stay part in years past. You just never know. Think boy scout. Luckily everyone has returned safe this year.

ericweller

One other thing to learn. Even if the boat is capsized, you can lower the mainsail. Once the main is lowered, the boat is much easier to right.

amen for the cell phone and VHF...

to throw another option in the list w/lights/whistles, etc...

a scuba safety sausage in each life jacket....

in rain and waves and wind it's hard to SEE someone so you can go back and get them...

http://www.scuba.com/scuba-gear-117/030750/XS-Scuba-Safety-Sausage--SMB.html

cell phones are worthless if its rough and dry bags leak. Attach a VHF to your vest w/ a lanyard. I'm adding a kayak line/throw bag to the list. We had a MOB type rescue this year where a throw bag would have helped. A skipper on a turtled and mast busted boat would not get in the water so we could pick him up. A throw line would have ensured he stayed close to us. It was SUPER rough. Like 8-10 footers on Lake Michigan.

I had the mainsheet and tried to let go of it as quick as possible, but still sheeted in quite a bit.

may be different with crew on board, but i ALWAYS hold on the main.. let it capsize!... the last thing i ever want to see is my cat sailing away from me.

PS great story/lessons in there!

Kevin219 wrote:

i think demasting is like an initiation for cat sailing

😆 I agree. It's really the worst thing that can happen next to sinking.

unfortunately, i disagree... boating is my passion, but it has lots of dangers.

I bleed one way or another most weekends (from sailing), this summer i have blown out a calf muscle (running my wheels up the beach) blown out my shoulder, and probably pickled my liver (not really sailings fault)

capsizing sucks, breaking boat parts is even worse.. but getting cuts, bruises, infections, losing fingers, friends, and worse are all possible.

Last week we had 2 old men in a small boat get flipped from a boat wake... one man survived.
We have had people cut by props.. and bleed out
we have had jet skiers with most of their faces missing
i had 2 jet ski's have a mid air collision about 200' in front of me.

Not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but there are many things worse than a capsize

Some of us don't have the luxury of sailing with other cats, So I urge all of you to check your anchor pins, bring a phone, and tell someone where you'll be and when you'll expect to be back.

those pins are know to fail, i demasted in the gulf of Mexico due to one on my h18. thanks goodness my pals saw me (way back) and came back. they towed me to a beach and we rigged a g-cat anchorpin that got me home.

i now still carrry my extra h18 pin

PS those typically fail in the middle, where you can't see the threads... it is recommended you change them out ever 2 years or so...

I agree Andrew, death and such is certainty worse than breaking a $27 bolt, but I guess I was referring more to what can happen to your boat. not the crew.

So what vet do you guys wear to carry all this gear in. I don't sail in the ocean but I still have been wanting to add a knife and such to my vest but it is not really have a place for it. It is hard fro me to find some vest that will fit me. The one I use now only fits because the sides are only adjustable straps but many have a mesh or other materials on the sides that just don't expand enough. I did get a solquist one at the hobie dealer to fit ok and so far it is my fav but I have not bought it yet as it is expensive. Plus I want one or two others that can hold gear as well for my crew/kids.

To the OP, off topic but why is your tramp so loose?

funny what people notice in a picture. i noticed the striking resemblence of the sailor to a popsickle!...and that look you get when the mast decides to come and join you. the first time i met matt922, i was loading my boat at the secret spot and there he was with his boat-horizontal mast and that same look on his face...i must have had the same look when i heard that loud "BANG!". a picture is worth a thousand words, i nominate this one for "best demasting photograph", it has it all- the rescue boat, the crippled cat, the frozen/demoralized captain...you should submit this one to life magazines "the beachcats edition"!

To the OP, off topic but why is your tramp so loose?

It's not. It may look like it is sagging but that's just because the cross bars are so high above the trampoline sleeve on the hull.

i nominate this one for "best demasting photograph"

I tried to find a picture of what a demasted Hobie looks like with the sail still up and all, to show my land dwelling friends, but my search came up empty.

I know this sucked for the OP, but I'm so glad to see threads like this. The first time I took my H16 out, I had a diving knife strapped to my life jacket. When I had my mono hull, I always carried the smae knife and I always found it handy. I'm a boy scout and there was just something I didn't like about being around so much water AND rope.

My buddy, who is new to sailing says saw me and said, "You look like something out of deliverance".

Well, about an hour into our sail, I got hung up in the trap adjustment line with a storm front pushing us hard. I tried to untangle, but it was useless. I grabbed my knife and sliced the rope. Done.

If it weren't for post like this, I might have forgotten to put that knife on. So, thanks for posting this. Now off to order a couple of bolts 🙂

Oh, and by the way, my buddy just ordered a knife for his life jacket!

That anchor pin on the H18 is a "known" weak point. Take a look a the below links. There is an old and a new design for the pins.

<a href=" http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=14013&start=30
"> http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=14013&start=30

<a href=" http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12637&p=72811&hilit=anchor+pin#p72811
"> http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12637&p=72811&hilit=anchor+pin#p72811

Here is the summary to be able to tell them apart.

Old pins: The threads are groves cut into the diameter of the pin, so peaks of the threads are equal to the pin diameter. You can also see where the thread cutting tool leaves a nick at the top end.

New "rolled thread" pins: The threads are pressed into the pin. The tool presses in and the thread peaks squeeze out. The thread peaks are higher than the pin diameter. The pin diameter also is smaller that the old pins.

Probably worth replacing them when you replace your standing rigging, since well it is part of your standing rigging.....

I keep a VHF radio on a lanyard in a packet on my lifejacket, along with whistle and knife. I use a kayak jacket that has several front pockets.

Glad to hear you cell phone worked in this case. I usually put my cellphone in a waterproof back down in one of the hull ports. I figure it doesn't hurt to have it on the boat, but I count on the VHF for safety.

I never carried safety gear until I started sailing on Lake Michigan, I didn't feel threatened on small lakes. But now I would still carry most of the gear even on small lakes. Except maybe the VHF since there might no be anyone on the other end if the lake is small enough.

Edited by smfinley on Sep 21, 2011 - 12:09 PM.

So, to have it all in one place, what safety equipment would you folks recommend be on board or on your person when out on a catamaran? What I've read so far includes:

On your Person:
PFD
Light/Beacon
Knife
Scuba Sausage
VHF Radio
Signal Mirror
Whistle

On Board:
Righting Bag
Righting Line
Spare Parts Bag
Food/Water

Anything else?

Edited by motivated on Sep 21, 2011 - 01:30 PM.

The full list of "recommended" items as listed in the Federal Requirements for Recreational Boaters..includes the following plus a few items I've deleted that don't apply (unless you feel you need fuel tanks!!??). I note a GPS is not included...? Along those lines, my Garmin 76 line promises to be waterproof and it floats. Although, I've never tried it.

VHF Radio
Visual Distress Signals
Heaving Line
Fenders
First Aid Kit
Flashlight
Mirror
Searchlight
Sunburn Lotion
Tool Kit Ring Buoy Whistle or Horn
Anchor
Chart and Compass
Mooring Line
Food & Water
Binoculars
Spare Batteries
Sunglasses
Extra Clothing
Spare Parts
Alternate Propulsion (Paddles)

there may be other items but this was available so I thought it would be worth sharing.

daniel_t wrote: ericweller

One other thing to learn. Even if the boat is capsized, you can lower the mainsail. Once the main is lowered, the boat is much easier to right.

Some might argue that is it easier with he sail up. Primarily when pointed into the wind as the wind will help to lift the mast with the sail.

Plus then you have to raise it again while on the water which can be very tricky.

Any idea what year the new bolts came out vs the old. Is My new to me old H17 going to have th same issues?

Quarath wrote: Any idea what year the new bolts came out vs the old. Is My new to me old H17 going to have th same issues?

My standard answer would be to replace all the standing rigging when you get a "new to me" boat. Especially if it has seen salt water. That way you know how old they are. If the boat was cheap and you can't buy new rigging, I wouldn't sail the boat in conditions strong enough to fly a hull, even if the rigging looks good.

I don't know the H17 good enough, but if the shrouds mount in a similar fashion through the hull, then yes I bet it is the same part.

smfinley wrote: [quote=Quarath]Any idea what year the new bolts came out vs the old. Is My new to me old H17 going to have th same issues?

My standard answer would be to replace all the standing rigging when you get a "new to me" boat. Especially if it has seen salt water. That way you know how old they are. If the boat was cheap and you can't buy new rigging, I wouldn't sail the boat in conditions strong enough to fly a hull, even if the rigging looks good.

I don't know the H17 good enough, but if the shrouds mount in a similar fashion through the hull, then yes I bet it is the same part.

I inspected stays and traps lines pretty well and am pretty confident they are in good shape but I didn't consider the eybolts they were connecting to at the time. I plan to pull em all and look at at least now but it would be nice to know when they started using the new ones. My H17 is an 86.

I bought and old beat H16 at a charity auction for my fiance. I figured it would be a good boat to let her skipper on and in the worse case scenario that it sinks, I am only out $200. We found quickly how important it is to have fresh rigging. She capsized it on the first trip out. When she was righting it, a shroud snapped and luckily she caught the attention of some power boaters and found someone who was happy to help pull her to the dock.

Lesson learned, I bought fresher rigging the next day.