need some info on learning to sail in open ocean
Question: Do you start off the beach in surf or are you sailing out of an inlet or from behind a breakwater ? This is important for getting off the beach with a limited timeslot between sets of breakers.
thanks Out of the Blue, i start from a protected beach, that has anywhere from 1 foot waves to 3 foot waves deppending on the swell running , but also have a lot of swimmers on 3/4rs of the beach. and a prodomiminently onshore facing breeze most days
I should have read your location (Anglesea) <img src=
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Since you start from a protected area then getting started off the beach shouldn't be an issue. Be completely ready to launch (no last minute panicks). Wait for a lull in the sets of waves for some flat water and go for it. Just remember to keep the traveller set about half way out so that you don't luff into the wind and waves. Once you have a rudder and centreboard down and some speed then you can think about re-setting the traveller and pointing higher.
If you have already sailed catamarans and are looking to improve your performance when broad reaching or running always try to sail downhill (never sail into the back of waves). Travel along the trough until you see an opening then go through it. There will always be an opening somewhere along the wave. Sailing into the back of waves is just like putting the brakes on. <img src=
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Sailing into the waves also requires a bit of skill. Luff into a breaking wave face so that you don't get knocked sideways then bear away once over the back of it to get speed back up.
Coming back to the beach make sure that both centre boards are removed from the cases and secured on the trampoline. Raise one rudder so you only have to think about one item. As you get close to shore raise that rudder and turn into the wind. Back the Mozzie into shallow water and get it up the beach as fast as you can (assuming that you have 1m beach swells nad breaking waves).
Hope this helps.
Peter
Thanks peter for your valuable info, i have never sailed cats before so i guess there might just be a few of those last minute panicks,but i am keen to learn and i thankyou for your time explaining the ins and outs. And thanks for the tip on how to run through the swells. If your good self or anyone else knows where to get some cheap sails from ,even 2nd hand in decent condition, would be keen to contact them. Brett Leighton
Corsair 2
Brett,
If you've never sailed a catamaran before there are a few more things you need to know:
1. When you are tacking you need to have plenty of speed then gently push the tiller and let the yacht go through the eye of the wind. Don't wildly push the tiller as it will act as a brake and you will loose speed rapidly and probably end up in irons. When you are in irons the yacht starts to reverse you will have to use the rudders to back it around.
2. When the yacht has started to go through the eye of the wind throw the tiller extension out the back of the boat climb across the trampoline then retrieve it so that you have control again.
3. When you have gone through the eye of the wind let the mainsheet go so that the mainsail ends up at quite an angle to the hulls. You will have enough to do collecting the tiller extension from the water, repositioning yourself and figuring out where you should be heading and pointing the rudders in the same direction. Once you have done all that, you can just pull the mainsheet on and the yacht will just start to go forward.
Naturally you'll need to do all this on a calm day with a gentle breeze so the learning experience can be a pleasure. The more experience you get the more natural it will seeem.
Sail settings are a bit more advanced so just have fun with one setting in the beginning. You should be able to purchase some good catamaran sailing books which will give you alot more info.
Happy sailing.
Peter
p.s. Will you sail cat rigged or sloop rigged ?
Brett,
http:/
Try this link to see what books are readily available.
Regards,
Peter
Peter, thanks again for the advice,it will be priceless to me. To answer your last question on cat or sloop i would imagine that 1 sail might be enough for starters (maybe just the jib) ha ha , but seriously will try cat rigged and see how that feels ,I was hoping to teach my son 16,daughter 12 as we go ,would you suggest this to be a good thing ?, also i am keen to sail solo but am a little hesitant to do so until i learn how to right a inverted yacht correctly so my dilemma is do i take out my son and have two people onboard that are out of control. i have done some twilight classes at the royal geelong yacht club just recently in 4.3 fibreglass dinghy's that were fairly quick and a bit of a handfull in 20knts with gusts,and we ended up wet,only once though. Anyway hope im not boring you to much , do you think i should try in a lake first or just go for it and learn quickly, i have many years experience in surfing ,but would like some opinion on this please. And thanks again for the link on the books, Think i will purchase the start to finish one unless there is a better one for me at this time. I am still at repainting stage and havent had the mast up yet so i will be learning a lot about how to do that in the next week or 2. Thanks again Brett
Corsair 2
Corsair,
Did you just say that you sail at RGYC, i sail there aswell and have just bought a hobie 17, so i'll be down there training over christmas.
Tom
Did you just say that you sail at RGYC, i sail there aswell and have just bought a hobie 17, so i'll be down there training over christmas.
Tom
Good for you Tom, I hope you are happy with the Hobie17.
Why didn't you buy a Mosquito? Did you test sail a Mosquito? If so, how did the Mozzy compare to the H17?
Did availablity of second hand boats affect your decision?
Just curious Tom, your answers could help the class and other potential newcomers.
Darryn
Didnt buy a mossie because of a couple of things,
There is a bit bigger of a class around geelong. I can take it to torquay or anglesea and sail it there with others. More seaworthy compared to the mossie's. I sailed one in South africa near cape town fogot name though and was great for flat water, but never tried it in seas as i was on a lake.
Availability was a factor aswell, there was nothing really what i was looking for avaliable. I was a little late i know, should have gotten in earlier, but i was in NZ at the end of November and the boat i was about to buy sold.
This i found by accident looking for a mossie, i rang a dealer who i was told had a good mossie for sale for around 5000(Not the guy you guys gave me), and he gave me pro's and cons of the two boats as well as the A-class. Then gave me the number for a guy who just recived a new 17 from him and was about to sell his old one.
Speed differences wasn't a problem for me as im fine racing any thing faster then a laser, the diffrance is only 2 points so it isnt that much. Mossie in South Africa did point a little lower then the 17 though, this is probably because of the bigger hull area and larger centerboards.
Price wise it was only $300 more so i really didnt care spending the diffrence as it was still in my price range
So i have ended up with a 2000 H17 and am taking delivery tomorrow morning then sailing a fair bit out of RGYC and around the area.
So if anyone in the area will be sailing at RGYC i'll be there for some training. And also if any one is thinking of doing the Indented head christmas regatta i'll see you down there.
G'day Corsair 2,
My 5 cents worth is that if you haven't sailed the mozzie yet and are learning to sail you'd be better starting on flatter water i.e. a lake or Corio Bay would be good.
This will allow you to learn the basics and get a feel for the boat before tackling the open sea. Things can go pear shaped pretty quickly on the open sea as you don't have the breathing space that you do on flat water. On flat water you can just slow down and think about what you're doing if you need to.
Corio Bay also has a bit of boating traffic and if you get into difficulty there'll be someone to help you should you need it. Watch out for the ships though. <img src=
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Far better to build your confidence slowly than having a profoundly bad experence that puts you off sailing the boat again.
Enjoy your new mozzie. <img src=
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G'day Col, thankyou for your opinion, i am sort of leaning that way for all the reasons you just described, and it does make sense to me . Also where can i get my hands on some newer pulley systems for the traveller and some other worn-out looking rollers , any advice would be much appreciated. Brett
Corsair 2
Corsair 2
Can you give us a little more info on what you are looking for?
Traveller car or the main sheet system. If it is the traveller car what type? I-beam track with the 4 wheel car or the flat track with the ball type car. Also can someone tell me if the Indented Haed regatta is on before or after christmas.
Peter
Brett,
The reason I bought a Mozzie was because it could be sailed either 2 upor solo. In fact the only reason for the initial purchase was so that I could go sailing with my son and daughter. If I ventured out without them I was seen as selfish!! <img src=
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The very first time we went out a Mirror sailed around us. Now that's really embarassing. <img src=
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So my suggestion that to keep in the good books and get some extra brownie points is that you take the kids out. <img src=
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As for sailing with or without a jib, the jib will allow you to tack easier because you can keep it sheeted until you are well through the eye of the wind. It will actually help pull the bows around and therefore is more forgiving of your learning stuffups. <img src=
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Hope this helps.
Regards,
Peter
p.s. wear an old wetsuit to avoid rashes and bruises from scrambling about on the trampoline and bumping into fittings.
G'day Peter, sorry just getting my head around the terminoligy of everything ,slowly all sinking in . As i said i haven't been able to raise the mast as i am still painting , so the traveller is an I track with the 4 wheel car,its the little white rollers on the top, one is perished an other is rather sad, also the main sheet pulleys are chipped around there edges, there is also another set (in the trailer box) that im not sure where they go at this time, I am fairly aware that im up for some newer ones,and all the sheets,halyards are looking tired also. Mate i'm just fishing around to see if anyone has these types of items that there not using anymore ,have updated,ect and would like to sell them to me.Thanks for your in put . Regards Brett
Corsair 2
Brett,
You don't have to replace the traveller car. You can buy the little white pullies from most Yacht shops. As for the second set of block in the trailer they may be Jib blocks. We are going down the Summers Boxing day regatta, if you get a chance to get across with or without your boat please do and we are happy to help you set your boat up.
Peter
Brett,
Most of us who update our fittings do so because the old ones have worn out or we have seen a better system and keep the old bits as spares just in case. It's probably better to buy new fittings if you have to. Ronstan have a good selection per the link below:
http://www.ronstan.com/marine/
Ronstan fittings are sold at most yacht chandlers.
Before you go off and buy new fittings make sure that you really need to. When you rig it up for the first time in the back yard make sure that everything works properly and can take all the stresses applied through the sheeting systems.
As for mainsails you can probably get a pretty good (competitive) 2nd hand sail for around the $700 mark through the VMCA website. New sails are around $1500. If you're really desperate I have a really old one with battens that hasn't been used for a few seasons. I'll get it out next time I'm down at Somers if you're interested.
Regards,
Peter
You will have heaps of fun on a mossie Brett. I came from the 470 class to the mossie and finding it alot more enjoyable and competative.
This is one class I wont be leaving for a long time and hopefully we can see you up here in NSW competing in some of our regatta's
cheers
William
G'day to all,happy new year and hope the berocca's are doing there job. As some of you are aware i have been restoring a timber mozzie and have finally finished painting her hulls. So finally had a chance to fit my mast,slightly daunting task in itself. So having set the mast out on the driveway and detangled i have found that there are 3 stainless wires for each side. 2 thicker guage with d shackles (shrouds),2 thinner wires with pulley adjustments and 2 with what looks like a bit, with a circle at each end . And a thicker guage wire i am asuming is the forestay. All looks good in theory,until we hoisted the mast. I have found that the shrouds went on nicely and pulled the mast up and slotted the base of the mast into it's seat(from rear to front) of boat. But found the forestay fell well short of (4-5 inches)to the connection of wires at the front.
Q:1 Am i hoisting the mast correctly, laying it aft of the boat.?
Q:2 the 2 thinner guage wires off both sides, one adjustable i asume to be a trapeze wire,but could be way off the mark here.The other wire with the 0--0 type end on it i have no idea where to connect it to. So after you all have laughed your heads off. Could someone please slap me a little and try and run me through the correct procedure on how to hoist the mast. Any advice would be appreciated. Regards to all and stay safe over the holiday period. Brett
Corsair 2
Hey happy new year!!!
Im only a novice. I use some 3mm spectra between my forestay & bridle to tension rig .
and the two thinner wires are prob trapeses (it may be set up for twin traps) photos would help.
Oh well hope that helps you.
Also on the mossie web page there could be some photos. http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/vmca/MosquitoRigging/
Hi Brett,
the lighter wires with pulley adjustment are probably the skippers trap wires and the ones with the bit with circle each end commonly called dogbones are probably crew trapeze. The dog bones allow height adjustment by hooking trapeze on upper or lower ring, as the pulleys do for the other trap. They usualy both attach on one shackle near or with the stays, at the hounds on the mast.
The 4
or 5
short in forestay, probably can be taken up with 3mm rope lashing which you use to set rig tension. Usualy tighten this until it stops mast rotating and then back it off a bit so mast rotates freely. Many Mossies use rope lashing in forestay, make sure it is high quality low stretch rope, best is spectra, dyneema etc. or at lest a pre stretched braided polyester. 3 or 4 mm is ok tension it with 3 wraps, which is enough for 4 mm, if using 3mm wrap it a few more times before tying it off.
What do you have on the bottom of your sidestays? you mentioned shackles, is there no adjustment. Many boats have some form of adjustment here which could take up some of the shortage in the forestay.
Raising the mast with sidestays attached from the rear is common. Is there a pivot pin and plate in your mast foot fitting? Many Mossies do have this. Personaly I like to raise the mast from the front attaching the fore stay loosely first, as you can then just walk between the hulls until it is upright lean it back against the forestay and reach across and attach sidestays. But you need to have mast base pivot pin around the right way for this.
Certainly a good idea to look at Mossie rigging on Vic. website to see if pictures and descriptions help. Good Luck. <img src=
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Regards Gary. <img src=
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Fantastic info gary thankyou ,i wondered what that 1/2 meter of rope was doing there. And much clearer now as to what is going where,thanks to you and journeyman. We actually tied it off as you described just to work out what was going on . So we were in the ballpark by the sounds. I think the sidestays might be fairly old with just one ring to attach D shackle, so no adjustment there. As far as i can see the mast footing is very basic, Being just a male /female fitting,having the male end on the mast ,i will look closly again for what you described as mast base pivot pin but have not seen any obvious locking pin . Q:1 can you fit these items to older masts. Also a few of the diamond shaped spreader arms are loose and a little out of shape/position, do you know of any one that can help with tuning up masts
Thanks again Brett
Corsair
Hi All
This is not the norm, but its how I did it mostly. My rotation arm was a single stainless tube that went through the aft surface of the mast through to the inside forward face of the mast, I welded a nut into the end of the tube and had a metal thread to hold in position.
I would raise my mast from the front, as Gary said attach the forestays loosely, I would begin lifting the mast, when I couldn't go any further before it was going to kick up, I lift the mast so the rotation arm sat on the striker strap, and raised the mast vertical, then lift the whole mast vertical and sit it in the mast step, the mast would sit there by itself while I attached the sidestays and then tightened the forestays. I never ever damaged or marked the mast, beam or anything else doing it this way, by being careful.
It may sound less than perfect, but it worked for me and nine times out of ten, I had my mast up first and without any help.
Regards
Gidday Brett,
We have all been there !!!
The forestay should have a length of rope (3mm spectra) attached to the end about 1 metre long. this is passed through the bridle ring and back through the eyelet in the forestay a number of times and is used to adjust the rig tension. I use a 4 or 5 half hitches to secure it. It looks like a weak link, but I have never seen one let go in 25 years.
It sounds as though you have a sloop rig and the 4 thinner wires will be the trapeze. The metal ring arrangement sounds like a no fuss non adjustable system.
You mentioned that the mast 'slotted into its base' does this arrangement allow it to rotate?
The method I use to raise the mast is to face the boat downhill and attach the shrouds. either have someone walk the mast up to the back beam then pull on a trap wire to get the mast up and tie off the forestay. Alternatively (and not the best for the boat <img src=
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Remember that each person has their way of getting the stick up - tha main thing to remember is to ensure all that rope and wire is not going to catch on anything when it is half way up!!! <img src=
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Best thing is to watch a couple of people.
Enjoy!!
Hey there Brett,
I was in the same predicament 3 months ago, I ended up going to the sailing club Im at now and had them have a look through the boat.
Im still soughting out things on the boat which I know I can make better/easier to use(thanks Stephen), so my suggestion is just take the boat down to your local club prefferably having mossie sailors and get them to help you out.
I never take my boat out first day I take it out to the water I usually try to sought things out with knowledgable people around me.
Cheers
William
HI GUYS,Thankyou to matt,trevor,william for your excellent knowledge and advice once again. Well i have finally hoisted the main sail for the first time , very proud of myself,ha,ha. And have got a few pics for you all. It's old but i think it's scrubbed up ok, for me to learn on anyway. few more questions , not having much luck with the blocks and their placements along the boom. And also tensioning of the luff in the mainsail, i think it's all there but just reassureing myself as to where things actually hook up. Is there anyone around geelong area that can give me an hour of there time to show me please, happy to drive and meet anyone . thanks Brett
Corsair 2
another pic
and another
Hi Brett
Looks Good.
The luff tension - Is there a track on the mast where the boom slides on? Any blocks on that corner of sail for a downhaul? or blocks on the mast that look lonely? Some close up pictures of this area might help out.
As for help you could find out what days the clubs around geelong are sailing, most National Title should finish this week, but there may be some cats sailing the weekend at Portarlington or similiar. I'd meet you somewhere myself, but its hard to get away from here at the moment, I only just got one day down at Taipan Nationals for a look and had to come home. You haven't seen any approachable looking houses around Anglesea with cats parked in the driveway?
Regards