F17 export to Australia

With all the excellent cats already available in Australia, why would you want to go to all that trouble? <img src="<>/confused.gif" alt="confused" title="confused" height="15" width="15" />

Get a taipan 4.9, for the money you would spend importing a f17 will get an excellent example.

the taipan will have better backup support, good class racing and is better machine all round.

Well, There is an Inter 17 already here, and when you say in Australia, it is a big country and I live about 1700klms away from the nearest manufacturer (Nacra). The guys from Nacra are great and come up here 3-4 times per year due to the F18 fleet.
I can appreciate the 4.9 suggestions, but they are all down south, and I can't fault the back up service from Nacra that everyone up here gets.
I have spoken to Nacra about a F17 import, they can even put wings on them here, but they have some great stuff in the pipeline that I'm waiting to see.
I see the F17 second hand goes around 10-12K US. a Brand new one is about $22K AUS delivered. I have never sailed a boat that can be pushed as hard as an F17, hence I'm willing to spend the cash to get one, and the wings are awesome.
Does anyone know how much they pay to get the gelteks from Aus to US?

Check your yardstick Dazz and you will see the I17 smokes a 4.9 Taipan

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VYC Catamaran Yardsticks
Class Reliable Probable Tentative
A Class 72.50
Alpha Omega 4.3 88.00
Alpha Omega 5.0 82.00
Arafura 113.00
Arrow 90.50
Aquakat 87.00
Calypso 14A 93.00
Calypso 14R 92.50
Calypso 16 85.50
Calypso 4.4 85.00
Caper Cat 103.00
Cobra 84.50
Dolphin 85.00
Gemini 88.00
Hobie 14 94.50
Hobie 16 81.50
Hobie 17 82.00
Hobie 17 Sport 79.00
Hobie 18 78.00
Hobie 20 73.00
Hobie Turbo 88.50
Hurricane 5 76.00
Hydra 85.00
Impara 113.00
Kitty Cat 99.00
Maricat 4.0 Cat 111.00
Maricat 4.0 Super Sloop 100.00
Maricat 4.3 Cat 94.00
Maricat 4.3 Sloop 92.00
Maricat 4.3 Super Sloop 88.50
Maricat 5.0 80.00
Mosquito (All) 84.00
Nacra 14 sq 84.50
Nacra 16 sq 80.00
Nacra 18 sq 73.50
Nacra 4.5 88.00
Nacra 5.0 81.00
Nacra 5.2 79.00
Nacra 5.5 73.50
Nacta Int 17 72.50
Nacra 5.8 72.00
Paper Tiger 91.50
Quest B2 80.00
Quest B3 74.00
Scat 96.00
Solcat 18 87.00
Solo 16 90.00
Stingray Mk2 75.00
Sundance 5.0 84.00
Taipan 4.9 Cat 76.00
Taipan 4.9 Sloop 73.50
Taipan 5.7 70.00
Tornado 69.00
Windrush 14 Cat 92.50
Windrush 14 Sloop 90.50
Windrush 14 Super Sloop 87.50
Yvonne 88.50

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Ah.....but which of the many versions of the N/I/F 17 does that rating refer to? Isn't it about time that Nacra got an F17 measured for rating purposes?

Yardsticks in Aus are done on results not measurement. When a new class comes along a yardstick is negotiated then refined as the results come in.

The pdf attached has a lot of good info including which yardsticks are reliable.
Darryn
Mozzie
1782

yo don't really want to go down this path do you? its a little bit prickly!

The main problem with the VYC yardsticks is the lack of updates. the guy behind them has now quit after a great many years of excellent work. but realistically they have seen very little updates in the last 5 years.

how about I poke a few holes for you.....

the taipan 4.9 got a new sail plan, the boat is dramatically faster.. the vyc unchanged

the maricat has been changed in construction, they are MUCH lighter and stiffer... the vyc unchanged

the nacra 5.8 is built lighter every year, the big jib was introduced in mid nineties.. the vyc unchanged

the b14 skiffs nearly doubled the size of their rigs... guess what.. they actually got 1 VYC point added..

I would suggest at the current VYC of a taipan 4.9 sailing on corrected time the F17 would be smoked week in week out.

Is that why an Inter 17 beat an F18 at the North Queensland Nacra Championships? I think you under estimate the Inter. I have seen this thing with its nose well and truely buried and still driving with more available, amazing boat. I don't dislike the 4.9 taipan, and in no way doubt that they are fast, but i would put the Inter up against any 16 footer, VYC or not.
Up here, North QLD is Nacra country.

Ah.....but which of the many versions of the N/I/F 17 does that rating refer to? Isn't it about time that Nacra got an F17 measured for rating purposes?
That rating was for the Aussie made I17 which has F18 jib and 22Sq Mts F18 Spinnaker with wing mast and smaller square top main than F18. That version is now not available in Aus as Nacra Aus shipped the moulds to Nacra in America where they have been upgraded. Now with less rocker, hulls have been canted, beams are stiffer, completley new rig including F18 carbon fiber mast etc. A far superior version than my old I17 according to Nacra here, this is what you get when you order a F17 in Aus now the imported Amercian version, what its yardstick is I have no idea I spose bob currey may know, dont know if they have Taipan 4.9 there though so we probably will never know which one is faster, but I know that there quite a few F17`s on their way over here.

Would be interesting to see a match race at Tinaroo mate!!!!

F18s now have carbon fibre masts?

Am I mistaken or are there two kids in addition to the adults shown aboard in that video?

That is correct Rolf, there were 2 adults and 2 children on board.

http://www.nacraclass.com/F17C/2008%20NACRA%20F17Car%20Tuning%20Guide.pdf

Tuning: NACRA F17
Nacra F17 Carbon Mast Tuning Guide. Effective date: June 20, 2008
The information provided comes directly from years of testing and sailing.
By Bob Curry, 2004 / 2007 NACRA F17 North American Champion
Rudder Alignment
Rudder alignment should be set to 1/32”to no more than 1/8” toe in. With rudders down andlocked, measure fore & aft on the rudder, 12” down from the bottom of the lower castingandlevel with the bottom of the stern. The tiller arm to cross bar space should be equal on both starboard & port sides before tightening the set screws.
Daggerboard/Rudder Tuning
Careful tuning of the daggerboards and rudders is important to prevent cavitation. Rounding ofthe leading edge seems to be more important than getting the trailing edge sharp. For the trailing edge, thinning of the foil from about 1” forward to an edge about 1/16” thick seems to work best.
Daggerboards:
Upwind:
- Skipper sitting on the side> Boards totally down.
- Skipper hiking almost on trapeze > Boards totally down.
- Skipper on trapeze > Boards totally down.
- Skipper on trapeze and full cunningham > Raise the boards 6.0” up above the deck.
Downwind:
-Always raise the leeward board about 12.0” up above the deck and the weather board all the way leaving just enough board down to fill the trunk below the hull.
-Mast rotation always fully opened/released and enjoy the ride!
Rudder-rake/angle:
You turn the adjustable eye that is screwed into the lower rudder casting 1 ¼” out. You measure
between the black rudder case to the center of the adjustable eye. This is a good starting point for most skippers.
Mast Set-up
Spreader-angle:
With 175 lbs on board, recommend that you use 2 1/2” of spreader rake.
With 187 lbs on board, recommend that you use 2.0” of spreader rake.

And that the Taipan 4.9 get a rating that INCLUDES a spinnaker; just like the F17 ?

With respect to the European I-17 version matched against my Taipan F16; No contest; those EU I-17 are slower. They only have a Texel of 114 against 101 of the A-cat, F18's and F16's. More then 10% slower. The US version is significantly faster though. The australian version was a whole different beast altogether with kevlar hulls and a sloop rig (plus 30 kg lighter). But they don't make that version anymore.

Wouter

Thanks mate, that explains why Devons boat is great in a light breeze, plus he flies an F18 Spinnaker.......

.

Ok DAZZ!!! lets go there again, here`s the Texel rating and yes again as you can clearly see the Nacra Inter 17 jib smokes your shitbot Taipan 4.9 and that is with the small spinaker with the larger F18 spinaker factory fitted that rating would obviously go down some, as the I17 can take the extra power the Trypan 4.9 would just go nose in. Now take u ball and piss of, this is done!!!!

Texel Rating (TR) 2009 for trampoline catamarans
31-aug-09
type Crew corr. one-off LOA RL WS WS MSAM VLM MSAG VLG
no spi incl. spi No CB ** excl spi incl spi
a-cat 1 101 95 ** 5,49 5,49 75 13,94 8,83
a-cat large spi 1 101 94 ** 5,49 5,49 75 13,94 8,83
bim 16 sp (1) 1 109 104 ** 4,94 4,94 110 14,87 8,13
blade F16 (1) 1 106 101 5 5 104 15,00 8,10
catapult 1 127 117 3 5 5 100 10,00 6,50
coolcat 15(1) 1 124 118 3 4,85 4,75 127 12,50 7,50
dart 15 1 136 127 3 4,51 4,39 120 10,20 6,30
dart 15 s 1 127 122 3 4,51 4,39 123 10,20 6,30 2,00 3,11
dart 15 sting 1 121 117 3 4,51 4,39 126 11,34 7,17 2,46 3,68
dart 15 sting no jib 1 131 123 3 4,51 4,39 126 11,34 7,17
dart 18(1) 1 121 113 3 5,46 5,3 137 12,66 7,55
Formula 16 (1) 1 106 101 5 5 104 15,00 8,10
freestyle 474 1 118 113 4,74 4,74 135 13,90 7,70
hawke surfcat 1 127 122 3 3,96 3,76 100 9,36 6,50 2,76 5,00
hobie 13 1 140 131 3 3,91 3,89 97 6,56 5,96 1,92 3,07
hobie 14 1 135 126 3 4,23 4,19 109 11,12 5,95
hobie 14s 1 123 119 3 4,23 4,19 112 11,12 5,95 2,62 3,54
hobie 17 1 118 111 3 5,2 5,14 150 14,76 7,93
hobie 17s 1 107 104 3 5,2 5,14 153 14,76 7,93 4,10 4,86
hobie 18 form.(1) 1 111 106 5,52 5,46 183 17,28 8,27
hobie FX one 1 112 106 5,23 5,23 149 14,91 8,03
m18 1 99 95 ** 5,45 5,435 78 15,13 8,93
maricat 1 135 127 3 4,3 4,1 115 11,00 6,50
merricat 1 138 128 3 3,84 3,7 75 8,60 6,00
nacra 16vm 1 117 110 5,04 4,92 147 14,00 8,20
Nacra 18m2 1 104 100 ** 5,48 5,48 162 17,83 9,48
nacra 4.5 (1) 1 124 119 3 4,56 4,54 139 13,35 7,60
nacra 4.5-1 jib 1 114 111 3 4,56 4,54 142 13,35 7,60 3,58 4,64
nacra 5.5 sl (1) 1 111 106 5,49 5,48 173 16,26 8,44
nacra 500 (1) 1 120 113 3 5,07 5,05 147 13,83 7,74
nacra blast (1) 1 125 118 3 ** 4,82 4,82 147 13,57 7,05
nacra blast jib (1) 1 114 111 3 ** 4,82 4,82 150 13,57 7,05 3,26 4,65
nacra inter 17 1 116 109 5,24 5,23 155 13,68 8,15
nacra inter 17 jib 1 107 102 5,24 5,23 158 13,68 8,15 3,44 5,02
nacra inter 17R 1 109 103 ** 5,24 5,23 151 16,44 8,53
nacra inter17 XL 1 113 107 ** 5,24 5,23 155 15,25 8,05
Nacra F17 1 111 105 ** 5,24 5,23 155 15,27 8,72
newcat 12 1 141 131 3 3,5 3,45 70 6,94 4,79 1,83 3,34
paper tiger 1 135 125 4,27 4,1 100 9,30 6,00
piranha 15 1 125 118 3 4,66 4,64 125 12,51 7,55
pixie 1 126 121 3 4,3 4,1 100 8,50 6,00 3,00 4,50
prindle 15 1 125 118 3 4,56 4,47 118 13,02 6,93
prindle 15s 1 116 112 3 4,56 4,47 121 13,02 6,93 2,63 3,78
seaspray 15 1 122 118 4,57 4,4 130 9,90 6,07 3,00 4,00
shadow 1 114 110 ** 4,8 4,78 101 12,79 7,42
speedycat (1) 1 124 118 3 4,35 4,35 80 8,30 5,60 2,70 3,60
stealth F16 (1) 1 106 101 5 5 104 15,00 8,10
supercat 15 1 120 115 3 4,65 4,5 136 15,86 7,42
supercat 18 sp. 1 104 100 5,8 5,7 188 19,23 10,00
taipan 4.9 (1) 1 108 102 4,95 4,95 97 14,58 8,02
topcat k3 jib 1 112 108 3 ** 4,91 4,84 147 15,10 7,38 3,29 4,15
topcat F(1) 1 127 120 3 4,77 4,55 121 12,71 6,60
topcat k 2 (1) 1 117 111 3 5,18 5,07 160 16,20 8,00
topcat K3 (1) 1 120 114 3 4,91 4,84 144 15,10 7,38
viper (1) 1 109 103 5 5 126 15,00 8,10 5,64
windrush 14 1 130 122 3 4,3 4,2 100 11,49 6,45
windrush 14 ss 1 120 116 3 4,3 4,2 105 11,49 6,45 2,68 3,99
aesticat 530 2 122 115 3 5,3 5,2 160 12,00 7,70 4,00 4,00
bim 16 sp (2) 2 118 109 ** 4,94 4,94 110 14,87 8,13
Bim Javelin F18 HT 2 104 98 5,5 5,5 130 20,00 10,30
bim 20 speciaal 2007 2 104 98 ** 6,1 6 175 21,04 9,69
blade F16 (2) 2 106 102 5 5 107 15,00 8,10 3,70 5,64
b-klasse 2 103 97 ** 6,01 5,96 182 16,55 8,72 5,20 5,52
capricorn F18 2 106 101 5,52 5,52 180 17,00 8,60 4,15 5,50
cirrus ocean 2 111 106 ** 5,5 5,5 177 14,37 8,05 4,26 5,36
Cobra 5m 2 111 104 4,97 4,96 94 14,04 6,87 3,36 3,87
Texel Rating
(default)
Generated by Foxit PDF Creator © Foxit Software
http://www.foxitsoftware.com For evaluation only.

This conclusion is actually based on a faulty reading of the Texel ratings listing.

You compare the sloop rigged F17 that is singlehanded with a cat-rigged Taipan 4.9 that is also sailed 1-up. The texel listing does not however list the rating for the truly comparable Taipan 4.9 sloop being sailing solo. If the rating rating is calculated using the Texel calculator feature for custom boats then the Taipan 4.9 sloop is rated faster then the F17 sloop.

We have got to compare apples to apples.

The F17 does indeed provide better pre-pitchpole control then the classic Taipan 4.9 however, that is true. The evolution of the Taipan design was halted by its One-Design rules and due to its early establishment back in 1987, it could not gain from the 90's era experience in hull design, sails or production methods. The F17 obviously could. A better comparison is to be made with the new designs of the F16 class as these are at their core a restarted evolution of the basic Taipan 4.9 setup.

Alle are excellent designs though.

Regards,

Wouter

Bad luck there Devon... smoked again <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

http://www.kittosdevonhams.com/otherhams.php

or should I say Smokie?

But that is the F17, not the inter 17??????
Inter is lighter, has the F18 spinnaker and will be with wings soon.....

That may be, but the Inter 17 also has a smaller mainsail then the F17. You gain some by being lighter but loose some by having a smaller mainsail. In the end of the day, the Inter 17 is still rated slower; although by a small amount.

Wouter

I can see where you're coming from Wouter, but the Inter never came with an F18 spinnaker, so I can see where Devon is coming from also.
The Inter/F17 class in Australia is becoming a Nacra development class, they do change them alot here, now they are going to fit wings onto them.
To the best of my knowledge, Devon is the only one racing an Inter17 in Australia, but Nacra Australia has sold 3 X F17s recently so the class is growing. We will all know soon enough the answer to the equation.
F17>/<F16.

The two boats are close enough overall to race first in wins in my opinion. Sailor skill being the only meaningful differentiator. It is very hard to witness a 2% rating difference on the course in real life.

Wouter

There in lies the basic problem with the bris cat center... they keep changing the boats! in all

thier

designs ie nacra 14sq 16sq 5.0 5.8 there are different lay ups of the boat producing radically different stiffness and hull weights. even the spars and foils have undergone change so older boats are completely different to the newer ones.

when you go racing on them you are not on a level playing field at all.

the only nacra I would contemplate is an infusion as they have to measure, all the rest are a waste of time.

Is that why all the

old

5.8s win the regattas?
Don't generalise here, it's only the F17 that they are playing with.

A bit like me buying an F16 in FNQ.....It would be a waste of time. There isn't an F16 at any of our local clubs, i'm not sure if you would find any north of Bundy (BTW we are 1700klms north of brisbane) , plenty of nacras though........ I suppose the local dealer looks after everyone very well otherwise we'd all be sailing something else, possibly F16's. Briscat come to our regattas 3400klms return trip for them, Nacra mini regatta P. Douglas, May Day Regatta Tinaroo, Mission Beach Regatta mission beach. They are willing to support us, so we are happy to support them. Darryl came up to demo his F14, one of two, the only other to my knowledge that supports us is Hobie. Mal Gray from Hobie is coming to Cairns for a Hobie 16 training camp. No F16 support, Where are they???? No demos, nothing. Why would we get into a class that couldn't care less if we exist or not. It's easy for all you southerners to slag us off, you get all the support you need.
Slag Nacra all you like, I suppose you'd do the same to Hobie. Put your F16 up on your pedestal, we are all different and have different wants/needs from our boats. If they update old boats, that's great, guys can still buy a cheap one and update to suit their budget, and as the 5.8s have shown, it is successful to do so and cost effective.
If they want to develop the F17 and combine the inters, all the better.
Why do you and Wouter even come here? you have the F16 forum, do you have to chip at us to make yourselves feel better?
I stretch an invitation to all F16 sailors to join us for our May day Regatta, we had an 18 foot skiff last year, the F18's came, Tornados. Come up and show us your stuff. You can even race Devon on the Inter 17 to see which is faster. We have State, National and World Champion sailors, Angus Macgregor won Junoir Male athlete of the year with the sporting wheelies.
It is on 1st-3rd of May
http://tinaroo.yachting.org.au/
Enjoy,
FNQ Engineer