>>Hi all. I asked this question on the F16 forum but only got one reply.
I remember that posting. I thought at the time that I shouldn't forget about replying to it. Then that whole spitfire-aruba thread boomed and we went from one post to many others.
I short I'm sorry to say that in my experience you can forget about moving the traveller car under sheetload on pretty much all older Hobie designs. Meaning h14, H16, H17 and TheMightyHobie18. Maybe on some lakes it is better but overhere on the sandy beach with beach side parking. The damn things were always jammed. Come to think of it. The harken recirculating ball traveller seem to have problems as well. The stuff that works are the Prindle wheeled cars and the I-track traveller rails with stainless wheeled cars. Harken RC will work after you spend a few minutes cleaning the cars out. Hobie system were always "don't even try". Of course the newer Hobies likes Tigers, Foxes and FX-ones have the more modern setups and these RC systems do work with a little care.
Personally I would try to figure out a different methode of sailing with a spi on the H17 than was discussed on the F16 forum.
Sorry for not responding sooner.
And ohh, that curved beam is not helping you either. On F16's, like Gary said, the systems do allow moving the traveller under load in some setups even very well. I switched to the I-track system and I can sheet on hard and still trim my maintraveller with just 1:2 and one hand, easily even. I never clean the track or care out. It doesn't need that, unlike the RC systems. So yes it can easily be done if you have the right system. If not than you'll just have to find some other way.
Wouter
Thanks, Wouter.
With the I track system can you ease it as well as sheet it under high mainsheet load? I'm assuming you can do this on Taipan F16's and Blade F16's?
Jerry
>With the I track system can you ease it as well as sheet it under high mainsheet load? I'm assuming you can do this on Taipan F16's and Blade F16's?
I can ! And the force on it is alot lower than I expected it to be. Before I sailed the boat I was thinking about using a 3:1 system on the traveller but after sailing it I haven't given it second thoughts. 2:1 is enough. I do have the centred cleat on the beam instead of the cleat on the car itself as alot of boats seem to be having nowadays. The reduces the force on the line and cleat when the traveller line is cleated, it also pulls the car less sideways and thus results in less friction. Actually I believe that the centre cleat system is the only setup that should be used with wheeled cars on the I-track.
I currently use the Ronstan 19 mm I track with a 6-wheel car. And I'm loving it. It was bloody cost effective and works better than all other systems I ever used with only the possible exception of the X-rail of RWO but don't sell this anymore.
Go to http:/
and look for RC61912 (The 6 wheeled car with ballbarings) when I bought it it was called the RF331 (for old catalogies)
Seriously, I need to put quite a bit of tension on my mainsail leech while sailing with a spi to prevent the top from bending off to much. And under spi I just hold the traveller line in my hand and work the gusts with it. I can do that for a long time without getting tired. The ronstan swivel cleat RF67 works excellent as well.
As a matter of fact I use a curved 19 mm I-beam with the smaller 4 wheeled car RC61945 (old code RF334) for my selftacker. AHPC made a very nice setup of it and it weights less than the Nacra F18 fibreclass system and I suspect it weights less as the Tigers as well. It is non permanently fixed and therefor can be taken off leaving only 4 small feet on the mainbeam. But what I wanted to say was that it works absolutely perfect as well. It hasn't ever jammed or hung up on me ever yet.
Maybe you can tell but I'm sold on these parts. When the boat was build I really want the X-rails to go on it and even source these but do to uncooperating chandlers I had to compromise for the I-beam but again these have proved more than adequate and I have absolutely no regrets for not having the X-rails.
I have no idea what is featured on the Blades. I do know that the Taipan F16's are delivered with these I-beams. Although they can also be delivered with the newer Recirculating Ball (RCB) systems on request. The standard Taipan 4.9's have the RCB systems. They work well enough but you just have to take care of them and the rail. A little grease and sand clogs them up and small dents in the rail quite quickly hinder smooth movement due to the small balls. I-beam has neither of these issues. And I've used all of them extensively now.
Wouter
Hi Jerry,
My stock Taipan 4.9 traveller moves quite freely under full load, ie under mainsheet tension with or without the spinnaker up. And thank goodness it does.
Thanks, Wouter (and Eric). Great input!
So does your outhaul also trim/ease easily under mainsheet load?
Sorry to say mine doesn't 
Jerry
>>So does your outhaul also trim/ease easily under mainsheet load?
Well mine doesn't yet as I'm still using a quick fix there. I was in a hurry to get the boat sorted and since then haven't taken the time to build the system that I want. Actually it is a piece of cake but I haven't got round to it. It is more or less the same as the Taipan system but than 4:1 and using less blocks. The Taipan system works really well and again smoothly. No rail or car are used here. Only a loop that goes around the boom and transmits the load directly from the mainsheet to the mainsail. Only drawback is that while broad reaching under main sail alone the foot of the mainsail is pulled tight because the traveller is far out. However when sailing with a spinnaker the maintraveller is much further in and so this drawback is not present anymore. For spi sailing this system is the best, the cheapest and does all you want.
Wouter
Thanks Wouter. I've seen that system on more modern boats and it does look like it should work well plus it lets you use a thinner and lighter boom. You're right, it's the car in the boom on my H17 which is binding under load and that would't happen with the other system. The only disadvantage that I can think of with the system you describe is that it doesn't allow you to quickly/easily disconnect the mainsheet clew from the boom using a quick pin which can be useful on the beach.
Jerry
Why can't you have the quick release shackle/pin between the mainsail eye and the loop in my system ?
Wouter
If your boat has an eye/grommet in the clew of the mainsail you certainly could. However, the boats that I've seen that have implemented similar systems such as Tiger/FX1 and I think some A-cats use a webbing loop which is permanently sewn to the clew. You'd have to have a sailmaker modify the sail (or not use the sewn in loop) in that case.
Jerry
Why not use two webbing loops attached by a small piece of rope?
Have the loop from the mains'l going around the boom and have the outhaul attached to the end of the sail. Then have another loop behind the first one that the Mainsheet is attached to. Have the two loops tied together by a 3mm piece of spectra, for instance, about 10-15cm long.
When the outhaul is tight for upwind, the mainsail loop holds out the mainsheet loop. When the outhaul is loose and the boom is wide, the mainsail loop can move along the boom to wherever it likes and the mainsheet loop will be further out on the boom and not pulling it out as much.
Personally I don't find it too much of a problem. When running downwind in very light weather where the mainsheet pulls the foot flat(ish) when the outhaul is loose, you're most likely moving at quite high apparent wind speed at deck level anyway and would want a flatter shape. Once the breeze fills in a little, then the sail has some force in it to pull the foot into a curve anyway so its not too much of a problem.
I think getting the amount of twist in the mainsail and especially the jib in very light weather is much more important than the outhaul trim.
I get the impression you are describing a system like that on the Spitfire - a picture says a thousand words, and I am sad enough to have a photo (taken when I bought the boat, so I could reassemble it!). I have found out since that the outhaul (yellow rope) should go through the foremost hole, not the rear one.
It is a really simple system
- the outhaul emerges from the boom, goes through the eyelet in the sail and a knot in the end is slotted in a groove at the rear end of the boom.
- the blue string hanging from the mainsail has a quick release hook / caribiner, which connects to the top mainsheet block.
Both the outhaul and the mainsheet can be dis/connected very quickly.
Cheers
Simon
You guys just keep surprising me. Typically the start of the winter is a quiet time. But what do F16 sailors do ? Catch up on the gossip, discuss some traveller and outhauls systems. Do some brain (if not artistic) work-out on rules of racing. Win two races and than find time to whip up some support for a second edition of a mixed A-cat/ F16 1-up regatta. I'm up to my neck in e-mails and communication regarding new blood. And in the mean time we all worked up some 130 posts in 3 weeks time = average 43 posts a week ! Talking about logging on to get your delay ration ! You bloody have too or risk getting swamped.
I have to do alot of Math during the daytime, I'm upgrading my degree, and it is just great to be able to log on during the little breaks and find a new posting or even several new ones.
Thank you, thank you all. Trully
Wouter
It's just starting to get nice and warm down here in Aus. Been sailing for nearly three months and will sail until April next year.
I've attached a picture of what I was thinking of, the system in the photo off the spitfire is basically exactly the same as the Taipan, just with rope instead of webbing (and a big fat clewboard).
The system I was thinking of involves two webbing loops tied together with some small rope. I've seen it used before, but in my mind its still un-necessarily complex and only of use for very light winds.
Why do you stop? We stop when the snow blocks the launching ramp, or the sheets freeze.. 
I tought the temperature stayed sailable year round in Aus?
Rolf
Australia's a bloody big place! In the north its certainly sailable all year round (even in Sydney if you're really keen) but I'm in kind of a sub-alpine area and whilst its not ice blocks, it snows here once or twice each winter.
Plus, when its cold, its generally blowing 20kts+ and really not very nice out on the water. Do-able, but not very nice.
Yes it is certainly sailable all year here but I think year-round sailing might take a bit of a toll on family life
