I recently meet a fellow who seems knowledgable and makes an interesting claim.
He maintains he can build a competitve, minimum weight, A cat cheaply and easily using tortured plywood construction. He readily admits the hulls would be
disposable
, but that he could easily knock of new hulls each season, or as needed.
Also, I recenlty read of a kayak being skinned with
ballistic nylon
, yielding a 16' boat weighing 37 lbs.
Does anyone believe either of these claims?
disposable
, but that he could easily knock of new hulls each season, or as needed.
Does anyone believe either of these claims?
Is there any A cat- production or not- that isn't disposable?
Seriously, how long do they last (mainly from the strength point of view, but also from a design point of view)
I don't think he has actually done it.
To the best of my knowledge, A cats started in wood. However, they generally came out to about 200 lbs.
Durability of wooden boats depends mostly on maintenance, just like fiberglass! <img src=
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The wood part has nothing to do with it IMO. Wood can last as long, or longer, than glass. There are disposable glass boats flying around here too.
p.s. REALLY SHITTY MOOD... it is snowing here today. This just sucks... and is stupid, and annoying, and W-T-F am I dealing with this?
There are hospitals in Florida, houses too! <img src=
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I have a friend who was a Navy doc stationed at Sanford. He came to Ft. Myers for a Hobie regatta and basically never left. . . 35 years ago!
yeah, I think I may be getting close to that.
we are buying some land on the water in Navarre and going to build a house (serious F16 house!!). How long before I just say screw it and move back down there? dunno
ANYWAY
A cats just aren;t made to last a very long time. I really doubt you will see one that is made today be around in 20 years like you do with the older school boats.
The inuit ocean going kayaks are thin skinned framed constructions. I have seen a version which is not quite as big as 16 foot but its covered in a fabric/film. So I would believe the claim.. As for making one into a F16 or A..
Inuit kayaks do not have the stresses a rig puts on the hulls.. I guess someone could build a framed F16 using carbon tubes as frames... But a designer like Scarecrow would have more understanding than myself..
My only concern is the stretched fabric has zero puncture resistance at cat closing speeds.......
Then then a
light
Prowler moth hull with deck is around 7.5 kgs or 16.5 pounds.. As opposed to the
heavy
prowler hull at 9.0kgs or 19.8 pounds.... This is with centercase, reinforced stern and all ready to take flying plates ect..
As for the wooden A at around class weight. It will be hard but using some tricks from the ultra light design book, I believe, it could be done.. Well I believe it is potentially possible.. Then I have been wrong before.. <img src=
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I think that might be true of all the very light boats. Haven't there been some catastrophic failures on the AC boats and big Tris?
I know that with Arie and me both on the Blade, I wouldn't allow double trapping and sailed much more
softly
than normal. 450+ lbs of
rail meat
? That's gotta be a bad idea on a 240 lb boat.
I know that with Arie and I both on the Blade, I wouldn't allow double trapping and sailed much more
softly
than normal. 450+ lbs of
rail meat
? That's gotta be a bad idea on a 240 lb boat.
yeah, 450 is a bit much (warranty says 395 I think). I had 380 on the wire at midwinters and the baot felt a little sluggish.
I don't have much more faith in my kevlar boat under those circumstances.
And don't forget the I20 at Tradewinds!
??
The boat was being towed in and slammed into the engine of the tow boat. The result was damage to the bow.
It was written up a lot. I'll try to find the links.
http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...
thanks
I was wondering why i didn't see that until I realized it was on the CABB forum
Did you got the follow-up about me bobbing around in the water for 1/2 an hour? You just never know when you're gonna have an adventure. <img src=
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I think he probably is right about the wood A cat down to min weight and breakages. The loads for a two-up F16 with bridle and spi is much larger so there is a lot more going into the hulls.
Would be fun to try a 3mm strip plank A cat in the future but not this year or the next..
Where is the F16 angle to the topic Robi?
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To rephrase, why did you post this on the F16 forum and not on the builders forum or the open forum? Topic is interesting but I dont see the F16 connection?
How is your F16 project coming along?
Rolf: What has Robi gotta do with this? Dont you mean Tikipete?
Gahh, baking pizzas and reading the forum at the same time.. Truly sorry Robi!
This is the only place I can ask a question and get a reasoned answer.
There is no direct F16 link. But, gel coat is heavy and weak. Replacing it might not be a bad idea.
Let's say you built an all carbon boat. It would be light, strong and relatively more expensive and would also need uv protectin. BN (ballistic nylon) is strong and cheap. You could cover the boat with it and it would be cheaper and stronger than gel coat. Assuming it could be applied like a vinyl wall covering, you could change aesthetic schemes fairly easily.
Remember, it's Sunday afternoon and I'm trying to avoid my lawn mower. <img src=
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Pete,
to my limited knowledge Ballistic Nylon comes as fiber weave, not a film type material. There are UV protection films, or dent proof films to be applied on car paint to resist denting from small pebbles and gravel. Also glass anti burglary films do a great job for UV protection, dent and abrasion resistance, but they are heavy depending on the degree of protection needed. Check out Oracal special films, or Llumar.
Yes, I have it from several sources that the lightest timber A-cats of the late 80's were 45-50 kg's but they would break their bows of during a pitchpole.
Some moth hulls build out of ply are 15 kg or less (3.55 mtr)
Wouter
Pete,
Do you know the name of the person that tried to provide you with some enlightenment.
What he is saying is possible. It all comes down to the skill of the builder.
So there would be some people who can do this and many more people who could not.
I know some people who built timber A classes 20 yrs ago and they came out at 74kg. Up until a couple of years ago I knew where two of the three were still sailing. I'm aware of No problems other than a crack in the front beam of one of them after more than 10 yrs. No big deal the round aluminium tube was replaced.
Since then with hull shape changes moving the bouyancy lower in the hulls there has been a decrease in the required surface area of the hulls which would normally amount to decrease in weight of the hulls. This is partly why they are now building composite As up to 5kg under min.
So IF you are skilled enough and IF you have a shape that can be easily formed from ply there are people who could do this.
When you say the old boats were heavy or that they broke I put it to you that these boats were built by those who could not do this.
As for the statement As don't last because you don't see the older ones around.
I think this has a lot more to do with the specialist use of these boats. They are not designed as recreational boats and as the hull shapes of the boats at the front of the fleet have evolved so much the older boats no longer are of any use.
Just the way I see it.
Regards,
Phill
simpler still would be a coating of UV resistant paint ..
He is a new club member. I don't recall his name at the moment.
Seriously, how long do they last (mainly from the strength point of view, but also from a design point of view)
As disposable as an F16, F18 or any other cat(from a strength and design point of view).......
The mk5 Boyer is still a very good platform and with a new set of rags on a good stick will be competitive. I still think the Flyer is as good as any of the other designs that have developed since and is certainly a better looking boat then the Gelteck Flyer.
Still plenty of early Boyers being raced in anger both at club and regatta level...... Still very robust boats too.
There is a mk1 sailing still in races here.. It does need some TLC but otherwise its fine