Class business

This has been talked before and I think that people has not come up with good reasons being a ISAF class. I would guess though that certifications tend to give people assurance that class is run

certified

way and maybe it would shut up some of our critics points even if it wouldn't change anything <img src=

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/>. Also we could have World championships after that (again just a name of an event).

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is the ISAF?

International Shark Attack File, ref: http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/Sharks/ISAF/ISAF.htm

<img src=

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ISAF = The International Sailing Federation. Or is there something that I didn't understand with ISAf and your are making fun of me instead?-o

Ahh, Rolf nailed it, I'm sorry to give false information <img src=

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I thought there was some angst involved here. Someone care to enlighten me.

ISAF is the International Sailing Federation. It claims to have complete control over sailing in all its forms all over the world.

ISAF is the organization that decided to eliminate the multihull from the Olympics for 2012.

I guess that should be enough to explain the angst.

US Sailing is the National Governing Body of sailing in the United States. They are kind of a subdivision of ISAF. The US Sailing delegates to ISAF were among those who voted to eliminate the multihull from the Olympics for 2012.

More angst. <img src=

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That's scarey. Is there a concise history of the group written down anywhere?

Okay, still on class business here, if an F16 Class has been established here in the United States, the class should join US Sailing (if it has not already done so). I don't know what it costs this year, but usually it is about $100.

Don't ask me WHY the class should join, because I have a really hard time with that question. I just think you should do it, at least right now, because it establishes some sort of national political credibility for the class.

I think we have. Tshan would know.

You can find the history at the ISAF web site, www.sailing.org, and then click on

About ISAF

Class associations belonging to a local governing body is different thing than being a ISAF class, meaning that we can be part of ISAF but we don't fulfill requirements of ISAF class. I'm not sure what all is required but I think most important things relate how class is managed. We do have GC and policies how class/rules is managed, so I guess that nothing much would change (I guess that we would pay more $'s). So being a ISAF class is like certifying that class has certain elements.

I'm not saying that we should or shouldn't get ISAF class status, before someone will clarify following things (without angst): what is required form us, costs involved and what would we gain.

I have never been able to find a good cost/benefit analysis on ISAF Recognized and ISAF International status for a class either. For me this question is a simple cost/benefit issue, even if I have my own opinions on ISAFs decision process and structure.

Joining your

local

country sailing association, like US Sailing here in the US, has nothing whatsoever to do with getting International Class status with ISAF.

I don't know why the F16 Class would want to become an International Class under ISAF rules, because then the class basically loses control over its own class, and every little change it might want to make in its rules has to be approved by ISAF. And manufacturers of that boat have to adhere to very strict standards as established and approved at the time the boat first becomes an International Class (unless you can get ISAF to approve a variation).
And in order to become an International Class you have to have X number of boats racing actively in X number of countries on X number of continents.

I haven't been able to figure out why any class would want to be an ISAF International Class except for the fact that ISAF will not allow a class to hold a World Championship if it is NOT an approved International Class.

ISAF claims to control the words

World

and

International

and anything that implies that something is of this world.

It is because of ISAF that the F16 Class is not able to have an International Class Association. That is not allowed by ISAF, since the F16 is not an International Class. That is why the F16 Class has a

Governing Council,

to get around that

international

thing.

And that is why the F16's can't have a world championship and have to call it something else.

End of rant.

You say they claim control. Has there ever been an actual test? Were they ever granted an injunction? Awarded damages in a court?

It seems I'm getting a little far afield! <img src=

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/> This isn't really class business. I just wanted to bring myself up to date on the

world

view of sailing.

Pete, ISAF 'own' the sailing part of the Olympics as well as some of the major Ocean racing events. If they decide that you're not elegible to sail then you're not elegible to sail, end of. Generally speaking, sailors don't and haven't rocked the boat very much with them. Lately though there seems to be more questioning of what entitles ISAF to police sailing the way they do.

ISAF have a very strong voice and very powerful persons on board, they are involved in discussions at the highest levels all over the world. As networking goes ISAF is one of the finest tuned and most powerful.

This IS class business, because there may be people within the F16 Class who want it to become an ISAF International Class. It will be an ongoing debate within the class as to whether this would be helpful or detrimental to the F16 Class. The manufacturers are very much a factor in this kind of debate.

Hey, Pete, you are the one who started this

Class Business

thread, so don't blame me.

I know I started it! <img src=

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/> Was hoping to add some structure, perhaps halt some of the wrangling.

Let's get into it then. It appears the ISAF doesn't want multihulls, else they would have provided a spot in the Olympics or suggested some alternative format.

Additionally, I don't want anybody mucking around with my boat! I bought into the F16 class association and don't need any more authority.

That said, I oppose joing ISAF.

Discussion?

I hate to mention this, Pete, but it is hard for me to talk seriously to a chimp. Do you think you could change your avatar to resemble a human being? <img src=

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Sorry! No can do! That's an orangutan. In one of the (Malay?) languages it means

old man of the forest

or some such. Hence, it is an integral part of my persona.

Besides, he sails the same way I do.

Pete,

why do you say no to ISAF recognized/international status when we dont know all the pros/cons? I dont know enough about the matter to make a decision even if I asked about this on the open forum earlier ref: http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho... 9&an=0&page=3#Post123379

I have this feeling that there must be something I miss since

everybody

go with ISAF status except the 18foot skiffs. I think a pro/con analysis is what we need before we decide. Asking ISAF about the matter is probably also a good idea.

ALL of the information about getting ISAF Recognized or International Status is available at the ISAF web site, www.sailing.org

Wade through it, as I have, and come to your own conclusions.

I have done so several times earlier, but I was never satisfied with what I found out. It's a lot about the process and not much about what a class gains.

Rolf: Just a gut reaction. There has always been animosity between catamarans and the

traditional

sailing communities. The ISAF have dumped the Tornado, our oldest, most respected class, from the Olympics; and offered no alternative format. My conclusion is that they don't want us.

I find it very strange to be defending ISAF and ISAFs decisions! <img src=

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The Tornado process was a PR disaster for ISAF. The event committee which have both olympic sailors and other ISAF representatives had a very long and serious debate about which events would be the best for sailing and the games. They proposed both a multihull and a high performance dinghy for women (kind of a 49er for women). It was the highest decision making body in ISAF, the ISAF Council ( http://sailing.org/555.php ) which choose to disregard the proposal from their own expert group and toss the Tornado out with the womens high performanceskiff. We know the rest of the story and ISAF is still paying for it. As you can see ISAF Council dont have many well known sailors amongst them but they do represent their countries sailing associations.

Would you be opposed to actually checking out what

ISAF Recognized

and

ISAF International

status have to offer?

Multihulls were not singled out, we just ended up on the short end of the stick on 1 item where a group was asked to choose.

I had the same feeling about US sailing, especialy as they had a large influence in starting this whole issue. John Williams being intimately involved in a lot more of the aspects of it, since has convinced me that running with an established on-going group has some significant advantages to winging it on your own.

I am sure ISAF has some advantages to membership or they would not exist at all. The A class is 1 group we likely share the most in common with. Piet Saarberg would be 1 person I would feel could provide a pretty objective view on the advantages and disadvantages of membership due to his long term involvment with what the A class has done over the years.

It is alittle pre-mature right now, but as this is being discussed, maybe Hans could get him to put up a little post on a few of the pros and cons?

M

I forgot to mention one thing. Before the black day in Estoril I contacted the president of the norwegian sailing association to ask if they were going to support a multihull event in the 2012 games. He replied positively, and our vote did go for a multihull event. I think everybody who cared about the events in 2012 should have done the same. Not blaming anybody, especially not you in the US who had a real struggle with US Sailing, but voicing opinions in a polite manner with the decision makers is usually a very smart move.

I was musing over the webpage with ISAF Councils members, and suddenly it struck home that africa and the middle east was hardly represented..