F16 Blade in Texel dutch Open (Geert and Raymond)

Rolf,

Will they have live streaming again this year.?

Any other of our illustrious Dutch F16 sailors attending their country's biggest cat event/regatta? It is in their backyard so shouldn't be any excuse.

I dont know Marcus, but I would think and hope so.

Apparently its quiet an expensive exercise even for the locals, as you have to go across on a ferry to the event & the entry fee is not cheap?

Love to do the event one day. <img src=

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Quite expensive but the biggest cat regatta!? Normally the 2 don't mix.

But do plan to get there one day and sail Texel in the next few yrs.

I see Geert has done a couple of the races, maybe he can share his experience & advise what the logistics are like getting there.?

Been to Texel for a Euro's once; the ferry can be a pain, yes it's not cheap. year we went we got 10 mins sailing as it blew old boots for the entire week. Sailed off the beach; broker rudder - end of regatta!

Rounde Om Texel was cancelled as it was blowing F6-7 onshore. First time it was ever cancelled....

🙁

Looks like they finished 140th (corrected, 500 boats)

At the start I saw a uni Viper as well, dont know how well he sailed though as the results seem to be down.

It is an expensive race but if you consider you get 4 days of racing for €110 entry fee and €70 ferry costs IMHO it is not too bad (especially when you go camping to keep cost down, and take full advantage of the Hobiecat BBQ which has free drinks! <img src=

alt=

/> ).

This was the fifth time I did the race (first time crewing) we finished 95th overall which was not too bad, it could have been a bit better if we stuck to the coast on the spinnaker leg (50% of the course).

The

problem

we and a lot of other cats had with the Dutch Open was that the (sloop)M20s where so ridiculously fast that when they closed the finish after 20 minutes nearly half the (F18) fleet was still sailing.

Another thing I noticed was that the new rig Nacra 17 was quite competitive sailing 2-up (very light Aussie crew though).

There was also an A-Cat with spi being sailed by Remco Kenbeek (overall winner 2006) but dont know how well he did.

Thats it for the debriefing. <img src=

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Sounds like a good time Tony! Even if I am not one for large and congested events, Texel is one of the few events I really want to do.

And it should be as it is resembling the F16's more and more. The F17 has an alu wingmast now that came of the Infusion F18 which stole the idea from the capricorn F18 which in turn was inspired by the Taipan Superwing mast that we all have on our alu masted F16's. Of course the Superwing is a refinement of the Sori A-cat mast.

Also the F17 is now more and more sailed as a sloop apparently. And the F17 has shed some 20 kg weight lately and had an updated sail design. The only difference between it and the F16 now is the mast length (+0.5 mtr), hull length (+0.20 mtr) and the weight (+25 kg). In itself these differences are quite small overall and hence the handicap is only a few points slower then the F16.

To me this all proofs that the lightweight short hulled alu masted sloop design with a modern cut suit of sails is a winner ! A concept pioneered in the F16 class !

Wouter

Thanks for that Wouter.....So where did you finish? The texel website is fairly slow at the moment and i cant check out the results.

For somebody refusing to share who and where they are, you sure have a spiked tounge

Sue

. Before going after one of the oldest members of the class, it would be good form to contribute to the class and share who you are.

Sue, give credit where credit is due..

Those who struggled to develop the concept of the F16 did a fantastic job.. The concept has shown itself to be sound and well thought out.. Wouter isnt the greatest sailor on the planet but it was his dedication and stubbornness that held us together in the early days..

I think its great that Wouter has just thrown some numbers into his post without any verification whatsoever. Where is the science?

If the F17 has lost 20kgs in weight then it must be missing something (like 4 feet of hull length?) because the laminate has not changed nor has the core so the 20kg must be coming from somewhere!! Maybe the hulls are filled with helium...

Also great to see Wouter taking credit for a manufacturers own development path..?? I think you will find that F16 had nothing to do with the F17 development and its clearly linked to F18.

Oh and by the way the Infusion mast is vastly different to the Capricorn section, but I can understand how it could be mistaken for the same thing... both are long extrusions of alloy...

I was actually discussing the F16.. I did not comment on the F17...

As for the F17 I don't know the weight nor did I say I did.. But if its true.. It could also mean that Nacra has finally figured out how to build a cat properly. Then it could still be false in which case they haven't progressed since 1972..

Also read what Wouter said.. Sori A mast went to Superwing to Capricorn to Infusion to F17.. Or are you saying that Nacra never looked at either the other masts out there and thought how can we improve?

Whatever.. fact is Wouter held the F16 class together in the early days..

Sue, have you got a crappy Internet connection maybe? I've been getting very variable performance from my ISP .......

Just exactly how does boat weight affect performance?
The Polish Exploder F18 team's boat weighed in at 198.5(!) KG. If a Tiger or Infusion weighed that much you
would probably ask your money back, yet they where very competitive and finished 16th overall (IMHO it was also a very ugly boat making it even more remarkable <img src=

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It is still strange that so little F16s show up, every year it is only Geert.
There must be more boats in the neighboring countries that are able to make the trip?
(Correction: There where also 2 Viper's at pos 116 & 338).

Weight is a big factor in performance, and the Exploder things were total rubish! We were in front of most of them!!

Texel is the biggest cat race in the world and if F16 wants to be taken seriously then maybe the class should make the effort to get there and make an impression on the market.

Macca: what was your combined crew weight? IIRC the guys on the Polish cat where very light.
What route did you take around the island?

No, we really don't.

One of the best things about the F16 class is the independent mindset of its members and the class board. The fact that we can afford to be that way, surely says something. We've always done things differently and this is no exception. When members feel the desire to do Texel then perfect, the more power to them, but the class is not going to force this on members/sailors/agents.

Also we don't

want to be taken seriously

, we ARE to be

taken seriously

!

There is a difference there. <img src=

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Wouter

It is a copy without being a direct copy of the Capricorn mast. Nacra didn't do any research or pioneering in the area of wingmast. They waited to see how the Capricorn did with the alu wingmast and when it did well (= world champion) they rushed to get one true wingmast on their F18 themselves.

At least AHPC had put in some 20 years of experience and testing into their wingmasts for it to result in the Cap F18 mast; starting shortly after the Italian Sori mast (Lalo Petrucci) introduced the idea into the cat market. The F16 class of course, recognized the superiority of the wingmast immediately and never made the detour involving teardrop shape masts like some other classes. In fact the F16 class arranged a deal with AHPC in the first year of class existance to have other F16 builders use this section against cost.

Also removing the internal rib from the mast is not a major design step. The benefits of the wingmast are the result of its elliptical leading edge and its width to cord ratio.

With regard to F17 weights; I have my ways of inspecting official measurement certificates. By now you should have noted that I don't make UNSUPPORTED claims; goes against my character ! <img src=

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Wouter

So what does the certificate you have seen say? I can tell you for a fact (recurring theme here) that the F17 has not changed in weight at all. I built the boat in question and know this to be true. I am right now sitting next to the guy who made the sails and we know what we did. You are full of [censored] if you claim otherwise.

You need to get off your little pony and try checking out the real world for a change. Its actually a pretty good place <img src=

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Oh and while we are in the real world, how well did the F17 go against the F16 at Texel? proof is in the results hey...

Again, for the record: I think F16 is a great idea but there are some issues that need to be sorted before it really hits the spot. one of those issues is the marketing and market position. Sort those out and you will be a long way to making it work.

We were bang on 150kg for the race, there were a few Polish Exploders out there, none of which were very well sailed but they did light up a few times (not enough though)

We stood on under kite on Port for a fair while after the VC mark to take advantage of the tide, I took a stb ride back towards the shore to lock in the boats that were to leeward of us. We made good gains there but Gunnar stayed out there longer and made even more. But I was happy not to be too greedy. It was a risky strategy to get so far offshore from the fleet. Once we came back to the fleet we worked the smaller shifts and tried to stay near the front edge of the new pressure that the slower boats were bringing down with them. We made a lot of places keeping in the pressure as it built.

How about you? a lot of boats went to the shore and got hammered...

Just back from Texel and now my name in a thread's name; guess I have to reply.
Anyway, the round was not too bad for us. Had a pretty good start, close to the shore and almost free air. Still had my problems with light air upwind, as long as both hulls are in the water (with a bit of chop) we're just a tad slower than most F18's. Have some work to do on that part.
Just noticed that the ones who tacked early to the shore made better progress, the worst decision was to leave our good, clean air position, go to the shore, find out you can’t cross the fleet, and notice the wind is getting betting better on the sea…

Downwind was a bit better, could keep our position more or less and when returning to the Northsea we got an unexpected but very welcome 12-18 knots, upwind. In these conditions the blade is pretty fast so we could get some 20 boats on that part. Very exiting finish lot’s of cats close together and a gusty wind, and everyone tacking quite often to stay close to the shore for the better wind. So at the end place 141 out of 500 starters. Did enjoy it, good weather, light wind, strong wind, current lots of thing to play with.

Some other things noticed; did see the Viper that was at zandvoort, now sailed by Paul Brouwer. Guess he did pretty well downwind, he passed me on that part.

Remco Kenbeek was indeed sailing an Marstrom A-cat, with spi. He put an existing (probably F18) spi on it and went pretty well (37), despite it was his first sail on an A-cat.

As for being expensive, do think the subscription is quite reasonable at 100-110 Euro for a four day event, as Tony pointed out. And there is a lot to be done to get this race organised.
I know one day events here which are at 65 euro’s.
Sure the ferry makes it a bit more expensive. In my case it was 50 Euro’s (did move the mast a bit forward before entering the ferry, makes it a bit cheaper)

You can do your stay the way you like, there are lots of hotels etcetera but also cheap camping’s pretty close to the where it happens.

Geert

Would you care to mention were the other F17's/Inter-17's ended up relative to the F16's ?

Or are we sweping that under the carpet ?

And yes there was more then 1 F16 crew at Texel. The crew of Brouwer and Hof (sailing a Viper F16) beat Ruesink and Haas (on a 2007 Blade F16) to the finish. And a German skipper, who has recently taken delivery of a new Viper F16, was sailing F16 1-up.

Personally, I think Fawcett and Dobie sailed an excellent Texel race to finish at 25th place overall on handicap. Getting 25th place overall is an achievement no matter what boat type is sailed. We note that the line honours winner is (only) 24th on handicap with an upgraded (custom made) line honours boat. Also they tweaked out a win over Sproat/Burke who are typically at the top of the

shorter hull

boats listing of Texel. So my congratulations to them.

As always I feel the credit goes first to the crew and only second to the boat type.

And I don't feel the F16 crews did a bad job at all (see the elapsed time listing below). In comparison they are in the top.

And just to make the picture complete and to show I have no fear of

real life

results I present everybody the elapsed time listing of the modern 16 and 17 footers. The handicapped order is actually very much the same. In total 9 FX-ones, 4 Inter-17's, 3 Spitfires, 3 F16's and an impressive 2 F17's.

-1- Fawcett/Dobie [color:

red

] Nacra F17 4:28:41
-2- Sproat/Burke [color:

brown

] Swell Spitfire 4:28:51
-3- Brouwer/Hof [color:

green

] Viper F16 4:45:32
-4- Ruesink/Haas [color:

green

] Blade F16 4:50:11
-5- Aart Hobie [color:

purple

] Hobie FX-one 4:54:04
-6- Houting [color:

purple

] Hobie FX-one 5:10:40
-7- McDowell/McDowell [color:

brown

] Swell Spitfire 5:11:44
-8- Smit [color:

purple

] Hobie FX-one 5:15:32
-9- Areosa/Lima [color:

purple

] Hobie FX-one 5:16:42
-10- Maat [color:

red

] Nacra F17 5:19:08
-11- Nakken/Schagen [color:

brown

] Swell Spitfire 5:31:08
-12- Brink [color:

purple

] Hobie FX-one 5:35:31
-13- Carstens [color:

blue

] Nacra Inter 17 5:36:09
-14-Brouwer [color:

purple

] Hobie FX-one 5:36:23
-15- Boomstra [color:

blue

] Nacra Inter 17 5:37:36
-16- Duin [color:

purple

] Hobie FX-one 5:40:51
-17- Dorfner [color:

green

] Viper F16 5:43:08
-18- Jong [color:

blue

] Nacra Inter 17 5:55:10
-19- Os/Leeuwen [color:

purple

] Hobie FX-one 5:58:16
-20- Graaf [color:

purple

] Hobie FX-one 6:09:50
-21- Bergen [color:

blue

] Nacra Inter 17 6:17:35

I hope all crews enjoyed themselves alot and I congratulate all on their placings.

Wouter

So how did you go Wouter at Texel? You have mentioned recently on this forum that you have won big races in big fleets, so this would have been right in your park then...

tell me how did you go in the recent Tornado worlds?

Ummm, don't sail Tornados. Never even been on one for a race, just tooling around every so often between races etc.

You have mixed me up with one of the other Aussie sailors that Wouter doesn't like. Sail A-Cats and other various sailing vessels, but my results are crap according to Wouter.