Let's try a different tack. <img src=
alt=
/>
What would you keep? I'm happy with everything except the halyard. It's really abrasive and chews up blocks in a hurry.
Robi,
I just sent you a PM about sails.
Pete, I think the problem is the soft white plastic on that little block at the bottom of the mast. If it were the harder black plastic of a Harken block, probably wouldn't get so chewed up. I think I'll replace mine with a Harken bullet on the beam, ala Terry's set up.
I'll probably do the same. The halyard I have is rough on my hands, <img src=
alt=
/> which is another reason to replace it.
Why do you use the bottom sheave anyway? I prefer to pull the sail up standing by the mast, pulling the halyard from the cutout the sail feeds into. Same for taking the sail down again.
I did this since like maybe the first sail outing. It is much better and smoother.
Anyway as far as carbon mast goes, the cost skyrockets compared to the aluminum superwing. I have lots of room to improve the tiller handling to justify a carbon mast.
I mean the difference between aluminum and carbon is exponential and very unattractive. <img src=
alt=
/>
Applied Composites in Melbourne Australia build
A
class carbon fibre masts
to your specifications
. They are one of the largest suppliers of
BIG
masts and spars for large multihulls through to many of the Sydney Hobart boats.
first it was the foil rudders and now the thread is about masts... although masts certainly have more performance impact than foils IMHMFO.
I need to see specific numbers regarding price for a carbon mast for an F16 before anyone talks about how easy it would be to get one! It ain't gonna be cheap and my guess would be at least 2500 to 3k at a minumum. Maybe it is less for a stealth mast if you make pounds rather than $. If carbon were the same price as Al then we would all have carbon masts... if anyone wants to say otherwise bring it on <img src=
alt=
/>
I think the real benefit of carbon (aside from the obvious weight savings) is that it is stiffer which can give you more power. Go ahead... argue with me because I am speaking out of my a--! But my limited experience with carbon tells me that. My aluminum F16 mast is not very stiff.
as for the bottom sheave- I used a small piece of spectra to tie a small block to the bottom sheave which makes it much easier to raise the sail. Pulling it out through the cutout in the track would create problems with pulling the luff rope out I would think
The guy wants to get ideas for fitting out a new boat, weighing up ALL the options for the mast is a MUST! It will be one of the most expensive items on the boat regardless whether you go carbon or aluminium.
Awesome, just checked their website. Might just need to get in contact with them.
Is this the manufacturer of the carbon stick going on the US Viper that ppl have talked about?
Don't know where the rumour of the carbon mast for the Viper going to Robbie Daniel came from, but Greg Goodall sent a F16 Alu mast to Florida in Glenn Ashby's container, which was then transferred onto Robbie Daniel's trailer. Robbie did mention that it was for the Viper. Hope this dispels the rumours...
I'm more curious about the rumor that a US Viper actually exists. Anyone laid eyes on such a thing?
I spoke with the gentleman who is getting the Viper and he was VERY specific that it would come with a carbon mast. I mistakenly told him that F16 did not allow carbon. Wouter cleared that up and I related my mistake back to the guy.
Who knows until we see the boat. It was supposed to be here in September but then Greg mentioned in some post that it would be in country in December (now). Robbie lives a mile from me so I'll ask tonight.
I'm pretty sure a carbon mast is available for the Blade at $5k. Personally, I wouldn't pay anything extra for carbon. With the tip weight, it's a moot point.
Quote:
[I need to see specific numbers regarding price for a carbon mast for an F16 before anyone talks about how easy it would be to get one! It ain't gonna be cheap and my guess would be at least 2500 to 3k at a minumum. Maybe it is less for a stealth mast if you make pounds rather than $. If carbon were the same price as Al then we would all have carbon masts... if anyone wants to say otherwise bring it on
I think the real benefit of carbon (aside from the obvious weight savings) is that it is stiffer which can give you more power. Go ahead... argue with me because I am speaking out of my a--! But my limited experience with carbon tells me that. My aluminum F16 mast is not very stiff.]
End Quote:
Correct on all points (but add the ease of righting if ditched and that the “lightness” makes ditching FAR less likely as well) BUT if/when you do use a carbon mast; I personally feel that you would find it very difficult to be content going back to an aluminium one. That is purely my opinion and others may differ. I feel that the extra cost is worth every cent of the outlay.
(I don’t know which carbon mast is being considered for the Viper, I do know that Goodall has used Applied Composite’s “A” class mast quite a bit in the past though.)
Hi ncik if you get a price can you let me no.
alt=
/>
What would you keep? I'm happy with everything except the halyard. It's really abrasive and chews up blocks in a hurry.
halyard? We don't need no stinking halyard! <img src=
alt=
/>
What ever hulls you have I would stick to the standard beams dolphin stricker, centre boards and bare trampoline this should save on costs and also be proven to work. I'll leave rudders up to your personal taste in kick up mechanisms. Given the choice of spi poles and snuffers and the fact you're not likely to import I think you should purchase the VWM snuffer and pole, again its been tried tested and proven to work well. I can't see that you have a great selection of Masts to choose from if your selection criteria doesn't include custom made Carbon, the only one which springs to my mind is the AHPC superwing and again VWM could procure this. So this now leaves sails and hardware and due to the dollar exchange rates you will probably be buying sails from a US supplier who has a good knowledge of the market and can produce sails to your personal requirements. Glasser would appear to fit this criteria well. As for hardware my personal preference would be Harken throughout especially on the high load parts. I'll leave the sizes, makes and strengths of sheets and halyards up to your personal choice. So in summary as you have asked for peoples opinions mine would be to speak to Matt and get practically everything you need from him. Otherwise, you might just be wasting your hard earned cash on bits and bobs which don't compliment each other and ultimately you have wasted your time (sounds a bit harsh). But good luck and enjoy the experience.
MarkP you hit the nail on the head. At the time that I posted this thread was before contacting several over sea parts/sails suppliers.
The exchange rate is killing us.
A carbon mast is extremely expensive, very close to what Pete (tikipete) psoted.
Ive been talking to Matt McDonals almost every day about options for this boat. He is very motivated with what I want to pursue and is working side by side with me. Every time we talk its for like an hour on the phone on what can/will work and what wont. What will cost an arm and a leg and what is the most bang for the buck.
So far looks like
Kevlar hulls
Carbon foils
aluminum mast, beams, spin pole and boom (although I might source a carbon windsurfer mast for free)
standing rigging
All these parts will come from VMI.
Side laced tramp - local company
Landenberger sails - if he has time to reply to Carla Schifer - I am doing a group buy, once I get solid numbers I will post a thread on it.
All harken carbo blocks - my own source
Lines - Trey Brown.
The boat will not have a jib, or the entire jib setup. Maybe in the future I will purchase the items required for the jib.
The boat will NOT be assembled. I am sure I will pick her up in boxes and put her all together. All the holes will be drilled but not one piece of hardware installed. <img src=
alt=
/> and thats how I like things.
This has been an awesome thread. I learned of trends across the globe about what works where. I am especially great full to those who have emailed and PMed me about my specific questions on shedding some light on specific parts and sails. I have contacted several big names in the sailing industry and all took time to reply - that is why those folks are true pros, they take time to give you a personalized reply.
Cant wait <img src=
alt=
/>
If I had the time and money to undertake such a project living here in the UK, I would either use Stealth or Viper hulls (Stealth have the volume, weigh less but aren't the sexiest the Viper look the business, have the volume up front but could be a little heavy). Definitely Stealth beams (probably carbon) The complete Stealth 'T' rudders, stocks and tiller arms and extension (all carbon) Stealth spi pole (carbon two piece) Stealth snuffer (mylar) Saarberg wing mast (carbon) Landenberg sails and Harken hardware throughout. I wouldn't choose the Blade hulls as I think that there isn't enough volume in the bows and their rear beams appear to be a bit low, but again they do look beautiful.
I'm not allowed to get into the hull volume and T-foil debate so I won't. However I can tell you that the rearbeam is definately not too low on the Blade (any version). I have sailed the boat in pretty severe wave and chop conditions with my 90 kg on board together with the 70 kg owner and at 160 kg the rearbeam stayed clear of the waves. That is all you want (need) really, so it passed the test there.
Wouter
Hi Wouter
I only said they appeared to be low not that they are to low. I came to this (my personal) conclusion whilst watching the Blades at Zandvoort where at times the conditions were extreme for my sailing abilities, mind you having said that I did complete every race (except when I saved Geert) which is more than can be said for the majority of the fleet for one reason or another. Maybe it was just an optical illusion but I do remember seeing the Blades rear beams and tramps frequently ditching in the water more so than my Stealths. It could just be the technique that the other teams adopted to cope with the conditions? In which case I'm correct the rear beams appeared low.
Latest on USA Viper as of 12/07/07. Here's an exchange with Jill Nickerson, AHPC dealer.
Jill,
There's lots of interest in the F16 Viper. Has it arrived yet?
Will you have another for sale?
Will they have a carbon or aluminum mast, especially this first one?
[color:
red
] First one is half here...it has a carbon mast. The hulls arrive about
just after xmas. We will not have another one on the ground but they
are orderable and will have a fairly quick ship
Best regards,
Jill Nickerson
Fun in the Sun
727-734-0799
fax 727-736-0798
Or could it have something to do with the fact that you were using T-foil rudders and the others (except) john weren't ?
Wouter