I think the lack of cats is because of the few sandy beaches. Most of the mono dinghys are kept at the various yacht clubs around the bay and are launched off a hoist that swings them from their trailor to the water and drops them in, or, in the case of Lasers, they can store them on a rack and launch them off a dock. Cats are too wide to do that off most docks.
We need a solid sandy beach to roll them off the trailors, onto wheels to the water, mud won't work and rocks are death. Oh, and the water up there is cold, cats are very wet, especially when it's blowing, so wetsuits are in order even on a warm summer day. SoCal has the sandy beaches, warmer water, etc. so there are more cats there.
But there's a strange thing about the SF Bay. There are lots of dinghies and skiffs and keelers out there, and kites and windsurfers (a superb Formula windsurfing scene) -- but very few cats. Either this is a tremendous untapped market, or there is some special multihull repellent which I don't know about, and which doesn't repel every other sort of sailing craft. Does anybody know what's (not) going on with that?
There has recently been a bit more activity out of Richmond Yacht Club...
Regarding CA sales tax...isn't there an exemption/loop-hole that allows boat buyers to store the boat out of state for 3(??) months after an out-of state purchase, then register it without the tax?
This issue keeps coming up each year...the Govenor keeps defending this policy despite public outcry against what is considered a
luxury
perk.
I think the other have given excellent responses to your questions and just for additional support I give mine now.
fast
for most of these guys, but the spi, weight, and carbon mast option make it intriguing.
Speed is indeed relative, but the feel of the boat isn't. On a reach there is nothing between a H16 and F16, but on the upwind and downwind leg the difference is quite significant. The feel of the F16 is sharper and more pronounced. Don't flick the tiller over when doing 17 knots under spinnaker ! The boat will curve nicely but that 80 kg of bodymass will not (you fall off the boat).
No, personally I would not even advice a H16 to him under those circumstances. All noobs should start in lighter conditions and work their skills up before doing 20 knots in 4 foot chop/swell on a unpredictatble and unprotected body of water.
No doubt about it. Your conditions are not muchy different from what we have here in Zandvoort and after 4 years the F16's here are going on strong without any major damage.
Overhere we do for 6 months per year and have done so for at least 4 years now (with respect to F16's). It is no different in this respect to F18's, there are only two basic rules. Tie your boat down properly and secure your mast properly so it can not rotate from side to side and shake itself loose. The newer F18's with wingmasts must also adhere to these same rules upon punishment of damage. F16's are no rotomoulded trash boats that take heaps of abuse, but when cared for the are not fragile or easily damaged either. In my opinion they are no different then the FX-one except for the specifics of the wingmast.
Exactly the same. Only difference is the overall weight so it is easier to lift onto and off the trailer or to transport over a soft beach. Basically the F16's are a smaller and lighter F18 and are as such exactly as complex as the F18's in the way of rigging and derigging.
That is something that you must decide.
I personally feel the F16's fill a quite unique niche and as such I feel that there is a modest demand for it. It just triangulates so well between the F18, A-cat and H16.
With regard to being overpowered on a F16. We must note that the F16 has LESS upwind sailarea then a H16. It is just more efficiently implemented and the increased speed of the F16 make it behave more sharply and agressively. In principle the power is no different to a H16 but in order to make it go you need to know more about sail trim and boat handling. As such the F16 is a step up from the H16 or getaway. But still the boat will sail well under mainsail alone even with 2 persons on board. I have done so several times when I was lazy. And 15 sq. mtr is not alot of sailarea. Basically the F16's scale well to your momentary needs as a sailor but the sailor must still makes the right or wrong decisions. A given sailor may be fine 2-up with just a main in your conditions but not with a full rig and hoisted spinnaker. The F16 boat is just like a sport car, dummies can still get themselves into trouble, but careful sailors will not.
I hope this helps
wouter
On the tangent-topic of taxes and registration... as a recent transplant to SoCal, I can say that registering my out-of-state boat was a slight hassle, but typical of any other DMV experience. Coming from Florida where cat registration is not required, I read the CA law carefully, did some homework and walked in with all my documentation complete and ready to go. I had to pay a little tax, even on a boat I bought in 2006. I also had to have my CA numbers issued before the City would give me a storage spot.
In any case, the requirements are pretty easy to meet and leave room if you want to be
creative
- personally, I did not feel it was too onerous. I DID feel cheated paying extra tax on a car we bought eight months before moving here. <img src=
alt=
/>
When I was in college I got a ton of work sailing peoples boats to the '90 day yacht club' in Ensenada Mexico. Brand new $250,000 Santa Cruz 50's accrue a significant chunk of sales tax and the owners were happy to pay me to take their boats down the coast from SF for a 3 month stint in Marina Coral.
This is no more <img src=
alt=
/> I made (what I thought then) a pile of money to sail some other dudes boat and drink his beer. AAHHH, the good old days!
Thank you for the input Wouter!! It is much appreciated. I am in negotiations with an F-16 builder right now.
EP, I'll call you.
Hmmm, Thoughtful?
I think that you already know the answer to the first question. I liken it to asking if you should sell someone a high performance auto for a trip from Paris to Dakar, when they have only previously driven to church on Sundays .
The analogy with race cars seems very limited.
Among the advantages of the F16, as advertised by the people promoting the class, are the light weight as well as the ability to sail 1-up and 2 up.
That alone is is very convincing.
Sure it is also a race boat, and there are technicality associated with that which may or may not be a show-stopper depending on the sailor.
So is there an other boat that SurfCity should consider if F16 is
too difficult
, and indeed reserved to an racing crew ?
A cheap used Hobie 18 or similar is a good place to start the cat learning curve. They are pretty tough, heavy but durable when it comes to surviving all the mistakes a newbie sailor is going to make. Much better to learn on something you didn't pay too much for, then sell it, get a lighter, faster, spinnaker cat once you are further up the curve.
I once saw two new guys (new to cats) take a new (to them) Inter 20 out in 20+ knots for their first sail on a cat. There were about 10 of us Inter 20 racers at the regatta standing on the shore. We were not going out, the race committee had already cancelled racing for the day (too much wind) we advised these two it was not a good time to
learn
but they were determined to give it a go, they were after all, very experienced mono sailors...
They made it about 100 yards off shore when the first gust flipped them and they spent the next 45 minutes driving the mast tip into the muddy bottom while trying to right it, with no idea of how to right it.
So, if you are going to learn, get Rick White's book, then pick a boat that's easy to learn on. Easy being less sail area and strong hulls/mast which will stand up to a lot of abuse. Any old Prindle, Hobie, or Nacra is a good place to start. Most F16's are not so forgiving of any newbie mistakes and any new boat is going to be expensive to repair.
SurfCity said they are learning on a Hobie Getaway already, so they started safe and durable.
I guess they are looking for their next boat, and it must be lighter and modern design.
TheMightyHobie18 is heavy, and is not designed for 1-up.
The Getaway should fill the role of learning boat, no need for the TheMightyHobie18 then. The TheMightyHobie18 was my first cat and I sailed it solo many times, in whitecaps too, I would roll up the jib for upwind then deploy it downwind. A great fun boat and only cost me $750, with a trailer. After two years on it, I sold it for $2,500 after about $500 in repairs, most of that was to the trailer (new tires, wheel bearings, lights, etc) and bought a Nacra 5.5 SL w/spinnaker. Wish I still had it for my kids.
too difficult
, and indeed reserved to an racing crew ?
Personally, I'm pretty much in favour of the Nacra 500 series (or old secondhand nacra 5.0) and also the new Hobie MAX design if Hobie decides to run with that properly. Both are pretty much excellent
recreational F16's
(if I may call them that) that take a (later) spi addition well.
I'm not too hot on the SL16 personally and I feel the Hobie 16 with a spi is not much in line with the nature of the H16 class.
Wouter
That seems like a wise advice indeed. However, Nacra 500 is 100 lbs heavier than a F16, it is unclear if if can be sailed 1UP, and the price is very steep (north or $12K ??? fully rigged). Hobie has arguably cheaper/better recreational cats.
The attraction to the F16 class is weight and versatility. Being High Performance is a nice bonus for recreational sailor.
Work with me here... I'm trying to convince myself that I need one!
Sail one! That'll do it.
I sailed my Nacra 5.0 many times over in Santa Cruz solo--it was really fun...but...sailing the F16 is even more fun and a lot easier to rig, right, and roll around on land.
Tanks Eric. A lot of comments point to the same conclusion: many boats are nice, but F16s are even nicer.(assuming you are looking for a light 16ft cat)
The question though is: is it that much nicer to justify the extra cost, extra care and maintenance (due to high tech, high perf), the extra inconvenience of being the only boat like that in your area, the extra difficulty finding replacement parts...
Apparently you just need to try one to believe it. As soon as my dealer gets one for demo, I will find out!
There's really no problem with replacement parts--either available locally or easily ordered and delivered to your doorstep. And there's really no
extra
maintenance per se.
The other issue is very personal. You can buy Subaru WRX that goes 0-60mph in 5.1 seconds or a BMW M3 that will get to 60mph in 4.8 sec. The BMW costs over twice as much. Is that extra tiny bit of performance
worth
it???
The F16 will SAVE your back, vs the weight lifting challenge of the 400 pounders.
(lower herniated fluid disc's are vulnerable, be careful)
http:/
Be careful tacking/jibing in medium winds, as the centrifugal force can throw the crew over the main beam.
In medium winds the F16 reminds me of tacking a Laser
There's really no problem with replacement parts--either available locally or easily ordered and delivered to your doorstep. And there's really no
extra
maintenance per se.
That's very good news!
worth
it???
At the risk of repeating myself, performance is not necessarily the primary goal. Most people don't drive BMW because of performance, but rather for look, style, finish, safety, appeal... so in summary, to look cool!
I guess the same goes for boats.
(lower herniated fluid disc's are vulnerable, be careful)
This part alone is worth the the extra price, IMHO.
I guess the same goes for boats.
Sounds like you've got this all figured out.
In my opinion the Blade looks very cool. So that's covered. (and it's fast too).