Blame this on Robi and Terry! <img src=
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We come to waves now, near land and far out [said Abera]. The main swell, nao bangaki [nao- wave or swell] comes from the South; it is big and low and does not break; it is independent of the trade wind. If you are in a canoe bound from Onotoa to Tabiteuea [about north-north-west] you feel it as a slow heave that rolls the canoe a little from the port side. This swell can be detected over all the seas.
- We, the Navigators page 182
More to come, lots more! <img src=
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Is this comming from a novel? Maybe a science fiction book? LOL!!!!
Check with your local library! It's in the non-fiction section! <img src=
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Sorry but that does not answer my question. What is this comming from? What is the source?
Pete listed the literary reference at the end of the quote he posted. It's from We, the navigators , and sounds like a very interesting read.
We, the Navigators is a book written by David Lewis, published in 1972. He draws his information from the written record of the first European explorers to visit the Pacific and from conversations with the last of the Pacific navigators still living in modern times.
Is that when they thought the world was flat? <img src=
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Is that when they thought the world was flat? <img src=
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No its when they were eating each other.
I read We the Navigators when prepping for my first trans-Atlantic. It was a pleasure to study and provided techniques that actually worked in the field.
Expanded landfall
comes in handy spotting particular clouds over islands at vast distances.
Star course
is a terrific technique of learning the sequence of stars that rise or set on a particular heading. Steering by the stars is considerably easier and more accurate than steering by copass.
Reflected waves didn't work for me, but wave profiles for various current vs. wind conditions is valid.
Regards
Chet
If you guys are interested in navigation, I read quite an interesting book a few years ago that I would highly recommend:
Longitude: The True Story of a Lone Genius Who Solved the Greatest Scientific Problem of His Time
by Dava Sobel
Longitude: The True Story of a Lone Genius Who Solved the Greatest Scientific Problem of His Time
by Dava Sobel
And if you ever get to London, John Harrison's clocks are in the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich. Amazing machines!
Oops! Edited to say that they're actually in Greenwich Royal Observatory and not in the NMM - but you HAVE to go to both so it doesn't really matter!
I was just in London but didn't have time to see famous machines--I'll catch it next time.
Actually that would be :
That is time when in a show of power the Church tried to make everyone believe the worlds was flat. In maritime circles however the knowledge that the world was a sphere was retained as accurate ever since its discovery. How do we know that now ?
Because of what use are latitude lines and sextants if the world was actually flat ?
Lets see if anybody knows the answer to this question.
Wouter
Is that when they thought the world was flat? <img src=
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WAS flat <img src=
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You got me Wout, I do not know. <img src=
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If the world was indeed flat the measured angle to any star would remain the same no matter where you were on the flat world. Because the globe is actually round the measured angle to any star changes as you move towards or away from it. For example the angle to the north star gets smaller (in relation to Horizontal) as you go further south. This would not happen on a flat world. This is just basic geometry stuff.
BLS
Exactly !
Because Mariners stuck to latitude lines and measurement devices like the sextant we know that part of European society retained the conviction that the world was round ever since that fact was discovered by the ancient greeks. In midevil times this was a tightly kept
trade
secret as you would be beheaded by the church it you ever decided to share this knowlegde with the world.
Wouter
BLS
I don't understand that. If the world were a pancake but were still circling the sun and rotating on an axis and oscillating on that axis, wouldn't you still get different angles to the stars?
Also, if the Earth were a pancake, would places like Australia and China actually be places we could get to with a really good posthole digger? <img src=
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Mary,
The answer is to you fisrt question is maybe. The church also said that not only that the world was flat but that it was the center of the universe and that everything revolved around it. If the universe revolved around the flat earth on an axis perpendicular to the plane of the flat earth than all the stars would always have the same angle in reference to the horizon no matter where you were or what time of night you took the measurements, they would all appear to just go around the sky at the same height from the horizon. If the universe revolved on a different plane then all the stars would appear to change angles during the night.
The answer to your second question is probably no. I have never seen anybody small enough to fit down a hole the diameter that a pole digger would make. <img src=
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BLS
All I know is that I was told from early childhood that if I started digging a hole in my yard in Ohio and dug it deep enough, I would end up in China. I'm surprised nobody has yet dug a tunnel to smuggle in goods from China and bypass customs and import duty.
Why should we go around the outside of the globe, when we can take a shortcut through the middle?
Maybe we could set up vacuum tubes to suck products back and forth from one side of the world to the other. Maybe people, too. <img src=
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Last time I heard, scientific thought was that the center of the Earth is a glob of molten iron a few thousand miles in diameter.
Last time I heard, scientific thought was that the center of the Earth is a glob of molten iron a few thousand miles in diameter.
Really? Then I guess we would have to go through that area really FAST!!
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Mary, you should make use of the Holtzman Effect and fold space to get to China.
If the world was indeed flat the measured angle to any star would remain the same no matter where you were on the flat world. Because the globe is actually round the measured angle to any star changes as you move towards or away from it. For example the angle to the north star gets smaller (in relation to Horizontal) as you go further south. This would not happen on a flat world. This is just basic geometry stuff.
Hang about a minute, if you have a “relatively” fixed point in space, such as a star, and the angle to it is measured between a point on a flat plane (the earth if it was flat) and that star, then, if the point of measurement on the flat plane is shifted, then the angle measured to that star WILL be different.
Any way, sailers only needed to “navigate” across the seas centuries ago because they couldn’t afford the tickets to fly with Quantas.?
And if the world was in fact a giant pancake, my kids would have eaten it by now. <img src=
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To quote Martin Luther when referring to Copernicus “People give ear to an upstart astrologer who strove to show that the earth revolves, not the heavens and the firmament, the sun and the moon. This fool wishes to reverse the entire scheme of astrology. The sacred scripture tells us that Joshua commanded the sun to stand still not the earth”.
In fact several astronomers where burned at the stake as heretics for claiming the earth revolved around the sun. And there was a ban on the notion until the early 1800’s. I'd venture to guess people were not nearly so open minded back then as they are today... <img src=
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Quote
[In fact several astronomers where burned at the stake as heretics for claiming the earth revolved around the sun. And there was a ban on the notion until the early 1800’s. I'd venture to guess people were not nearly so open-minded back then as they are today...]
If you think that “we” today are an “enlightened” people, talk to a few “Christian fundamentalists” about the origins of the world and you may think that you ARE back in the “dark ages”,
For that matter try the practicing beliefs of fundamentalist Muslims and their interpretation of the Koran to see what “closed mindedness” also is,
If you want bigotry and bias then check out the “Arian nations”
For true “enlightenment” how about the “teachings” of George W Bush??
The KKK?
etc, etc.
The list goes on and on and ----
Prime minister John Howard ?
Wouter
Careful Wouter, some unkind person may add your name (or mine for that matter)
To be considered
reasonable, un biased, open minded, non bigeted, fair etc
is generally a personal point of view any way, and depends on which side of the fence you sit at the time. My
Terrorists
are some one elses
patriots
and vice versa, history is always written by the victor.
For that matter try the practicing beliefs of fundamentalist Muslims and their interpretation of the Koran to see what “closed mindedness” also is.
One group thinks their diety can walk on water. The other believes horses can fly.