Sorry..
I am looking at options for organizing a compliant boat and showing up for this.. I think experts running tuning/speed sessions and a de-briefing of the racing on a large screen would be excellent. Having pictures of the days racing on the same large screen in the beer tent tends to take care of the entertainment <img src=
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Here I give my experience.
Maybe we can get somewhere.
Personally I don't see the fact that some boats sail without a GPS receiver as a problem worth considering. GPS loggers are become more and more available and even for rather low costs due to GPS route planners. My GPS logger stores 10.000 data points and costed 150 Euro's some 3 years ago. Past season we used several of these during club races. The hardware is not the real problem. And I would accept a good numbers of GPS carrying boats as acceptable. I think all F16 sailors in NL have a personal GPS logger already.
What I'm saying here is that this is not a technical problem.
Our experience is that the accuracy of a GPS logger on the water is typically 3 to 9 meters. Most loggers can log once a second. That is very accurate when measured on the overall size of the course. It is quite easy to see the windshifts etc in the tracks. Again, this is the result using 100-150 Euro GPS loggers.
The data itself can and should be pre-processed by a different application before it is fed into a viewer. Even I can program that. In this pre-processing an intepolation routine can be used to bridge gaps or even correct for reduced accuracy. Again I got the skills to do that; had been doing that in my previous job. My skills however are lacking in the display field.
Logger do sometimes miss a few logging instances but even extremely simple lineair intepolation routines work rather well here.
The GPS can not function without a universally synchronized clock. Hence the clocks of the individual clocks are automatically synchronized with a the satelites themselfs. Of course the coordinates are calibrated as well otherwise the GPS would not be a GPS (Global positioning system).
From experience I can tell you that two boats 10 meters apart will show themselfs exactly like that in the tracks. Therefor these points are not an issue.
The boat we'll be using for the racing has a build in GPS navigator. Shouldn't be to hard to store waypoints for these items.
In the past I just loaded all the tracks of individual boats into one view and the location of the marks and line is rather visible by the shape of the tracks. The last may not be most accurate but it did work rather well.
It is surprising how much can be learned from the tracks alone. All these things can be done in the pre-processing phase even logging by the committee boat fails. A little human inspection of the tracks can go a long way. It really helps that this is not real time.
You are correct in principe, but not really in practice. This viewing of GPS data will be in playback mode and not real time mode. So the direction of the boats can be found by looking at the next waypoint (or even more future way points). If future waypoints are inconclusive then look at a few past waypoints.At the time of plotting all waypoints of the entire race are known. This info can feed a simple routine that determines direction. But I think it to be better to have the pre-processing phase do these actions and just expand the data with direction info. That makes displaying both easier and faster.
Can this go wrong in some instances ? Probably, but if these are limited in number than that is quite acceptable. Further more I'm thinking about a simple routine that keeps boats always pointing
upwind
on a upwind leg and on downwind legs you don't have this problem of sailing backwards.
When I programmed I always multiplied my best guess by 3. But then again I'm not a fast programmer.
That is much more difficult ! And way beyond anything I would consider building or asking anybody to build.
Well, I'm not saying we have a big budget but I'm not saying it must be for free either.
I feel confident that I can get the data file right by pre-prosessing raw GPS logger data. Including the marks and start-line and the direction of the boats travelling.
The only question I have is whether multiple tracks can be easily displayed using a program like Tacticat. And if so; whether the amount of effort required would make it too expensive or otherwise impossible.
You may have guessed by now that this is not an idea that just popped up in my head. I actually did work on it occasionally over the past years but I always hung up on the graphical display part. I can program processing routines and such but graphical user interfaces is really not my sport.
Also before I let anybody do any interface work, I (or a few of us) will first proof the pre-processing part by actually doing it.
Wouter
This is what I enjoy about short close racing (see Attachment)
Let's get this thread on is original track.
Apart from providing some Tacticat activiy during the regatta days we, at tacticat, have another possibility. It's being planned for other events so why not this one?:
We are to schedule a weekly event. Times and dates aimed to the potential real regatta attendance. The weekly event will have a name, an image, an info and a trophy that is related to the real event (some months in the future).
If you are interested just let me know. The model is still to be completely defined but the idea is to keep during some time the attention on a future event.
Amando.
And, please, for all GPS, playback, etcetera, I'd gladly discuss it in the technical forum at tacticat. <img src=
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It isn't likely I would attend for one regatta. If I could arrange a 7-10 day package, including two regattas; then that is a different matter all together!
I'd like to see some hard numbers regarding costs.
Pete,
If you want two regattas from the one trip then Zandvoort '07 is for you!!
F16 Global Challenge Aug 11th - 17th
Zandvoort REM Meeting Aug 18th/19th (100+ boats)
Go book your trip right now! <img src=
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Anyone else interested from the U.S.? We've been through the container
thing
before. Wanna try again?
Anybody wanna buy my boat- fob Zandvoort?
Are you all Karaoke Kings? BBQ addicts? Disco Divas?
BBQs yes. It takes a *lot* of alcohol before I'll consider singing or dancing (this is for the good of all concerned, trust me). Experiments in the past have shown that I usually pass out before either of the above will happen <img src=
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Personally, I have more interest in how to make what I've got go faster, than what designs are fast, so in that respect I'd rather hear from successful sailors than successful designers/builders.
For the record, I'm with Mark on the
more shorter races
thing. Also I think it's quantity and quality of sailing that will attract people from further afield (as Pete points out). I know that when Singapore was being considered, quantity of sailing was a big consideration for me. It needs to be worth shipping a boat for.
Paul
John,
Do you have the dates of the Westland Cup?
That was a fun regatta.
Can't beat an open fire, a bar, a band and lounge chairs to relax in all together on the sand.
If not, maybe Wouter or Hans could advise.
Regards,
Phill
Seriously guys, I am interested. But I am not overly excited about shipping my boat. So this brings back my question.
Will there be any available boats for charter? I am too heavy to crew 185lbs so I would rather drive, uni or sloop (with light weight crew).
Another question that comes to mind is, how will the weather be? is it cold? will we need some foul weather gear in order to sail comfortably?
It's the NORTH Sea Robi!!! Duh? <img src=
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Wouter and Co can be more precise, but when I've sailed in Holland before at that time of year, the water has been ...... refreshing? You'll need a wetsuit, but the air temps can be pretty good <img src=
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Definitely DRY SUIT for me (and possibly other sailors from FL) <img src=
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Last year's Westland was 10th Sept. This year's is 16th Sept.
I'm guessing that the 2007 running of the Westland Cup will be either 8th or 15th September - a good 3 weeks after the F16 event.
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LOL, sorry but I am not familiar with anything other than the Carribbean and maybe 500 yards off the coast of FL.
Definitely DRY SUIT for me (and possibly other sailors from FL) <img src=
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YES! exactly!
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We don't even DRINK water that cold! <img src=
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http:/
Bump..
The fact it is a
Worlds
type event means it goes without saying the racing needs to be as complete and organized as possible of course. Here I have no doubt the Zandvoort crew will put togehter a top notch event.
For me personally I go to these events to hang out with old friends and meet new ones. My least favorite events have been those where the competitors show up to their boats, race and then head out on their own or with their clique. No real formal organization is required (and you really do not want me doing karioke) but a seriers of casually scheduled reasons to keep everyone together, meet the different personalities from around the world, discuss sailing or whatever.
M
The fact it is a
Worlds
type event means it goes without saying the racing needs to be as complete and organized as possible of course. Here I have no doubt the Zandvoort crew will put togehter a top notch event.
For me personally I go to these events to hang out with old friends and meet new ones. My least favorite events have been those where the competitors show up to their boats, race and then head out on their own or with their clique. No real formal organization is required (and you really do not want me doing karioke) but a seriers of casually scheduled reasons to keep everyone together, meet the different personalities from around the world, discuss sailing or whatever.
M
Agreed; and the solution to this can be having accomadation close by.
What is the situation in the area for either camping, apartments or similar ?
Interesting idea Amando, I trust the F16 governing council will take note of it and consider it.
With respect to GPS logging, lets put that one on hold for now.
Wouter
I think John worded it best.
The concluding weekend of the F16 event is a 100+ boat REM race weekend (2 days of racing) that is also an official F18 class regatta where every
who is who
will be present.
But otherwise you could also consider doing the Valk sailing thing. Those boat can also be your accomodation so those additional days can be quite inexpensive for you. The majority of Valk sailors sleep in their boats or in tents on shore next to the boats.
If you want a holliday full of different sailing experiences than this Zandvoort Event is truly it. Bouy racing in F16 event, Distance race and bouy racing in REM race event. Cruising and inexpensive pleasure sailing in the Valks.
And if so desired there is more available.
Wouter
At these times I typically use a shorty.
However I do keep a full wetsuit available for the windy days with low air temp.
If the racing lasts a full day then the long wetsuit is often nice to wear as over the hours spend on the water you do tend to get a little
fresh with only a shorty
I never wear drysuits in this time of year; far too hot.
Wouter
I think Matt touches on an important point here.
I have no chance of scoring big in this event if some of the mentioned names turn up for this event. I mostly participate for the camaradery and meeting the guys AND gals. Additionally I do really value the learing for the best part.
In order to satisfy all and make this event worth while to builders, promotors and hardcore racers I think we should really race during the time alloted for the racing. But then fully switch over to the leasure style once the racing has ended for the day. This is alot more enjoyable to the spectators and accompanying family members and it prevents the hard-core racers from being short changed on the racing.
Ergo I think we must endeavour to do both in optima forma AND I do believe that if we can get this done right that it will be a huge boost to the enjoyment of the event by all.
So I'm think out loud :
10:00-12:00 Boat tuning and tweaking and other sailing related activities if so desired by individual crews. Otherwise sleeping in. The RC will use this time to prepare the racing for the day.
Racing starting at 12:00 and ending at 16:00. At least 3 short races a day (I don't want to force the singlehanders to do 3 or 4 long races a day). Allowing three to four
45 min
races and accompanying start/finish sequences.
Then 16:00 - 18:00 derigging boats, showering and getting dressed (all at the club house). During that time the RC will take out the bouys and put these and the boat down for the night.
18:00 and onward an evening long ban on excessive sailing talk and any boat tweaking. This time is then reserved for happy hour, cooking eating, admiring the sunset and generally hanging together.
I envision having some 3 to 4 days like this with intermediate resting days on which each crew is free to do as they like/want.
First weekend is largely open to personal initiative. Last weekend is the REM-race event which is seperated from the F16 cup event. So new chances or new leasure activities. In this weekend the kids are catered for with a various play apparatus.
Wouter
Westland cup 2006 was at 29th / 30th July it is typically 3 weeks before the rem-race.
Often the REM-race is surrounded on either side by the Dutch F18 championships and the individual builder championships (nacra, hobie etc). So not much change of combining more events into one go unless you are willing to spend 3 weeks or more here.
And Phill, you forgot to mention the blue moon ! You remember that rather rare natural aquatic light show for which we woke you while you warned us that :
it'd better be good !
Wouter
Zandvoort is one of the larger sea resorts towns of Holland. You may have to book somewhat in advance but anything from hotels, private rooms as in B&B, to holliday houses (appartments) can be arranged. The club itself has everything from very clean toilets to showers and storage space for valuables. It also has an non-profit on site bar with last century pricing. The boat parking is somewhat fenced off so only sailors come there. It is not hard fenced off. What I'm trying to say is that the club has somewhat of a private beach area where it is relatively quiet.
There are 2 campings (I believe) in Zandvoort itself. It is more a hotel/appartment oriented town.
These are about 1.5 - 2 km from the club. With bycycles an easy distance to cover.
There are a few more in Bloemendaal, a neighbouring town. About 5 to 10 km from the club.
This is front the top of my head.
Do a google search for details.
Dutch tourist information agency is called VVV .
Wouter
Hi all,
Wouter is mentioning it all ready a bit, but on the moment we are putting a package together where all the exact information will be available for camping, hotels, bungalow parc etc etc etc.
We put a lot of the ideas on paper already in what is mentioned in the posts above. Thank you for this.
There is asked to the webmaster to add an extra button in the main menu with the info available so please keep this on your minds, there will be also a pre-entry form available very soon, if the people who are interested fill this in and return this, would this be great so we can more work on the details of the social part. The race part is already lined up.
The website is now updated. http://www.formula16.org/
A navigation tab on the left of the homepage will take you to a new section specifically for the 2007 Global Challenge.
Details of the planned week of racing and entertainments will be published there. Also there is a link to an entry form in Word format that we would like people to complete so that we can get an idea of likely numbers of competitors.
On the form you can indicate whether you will be definitely attending/thinking about it. Please be totally honest about this so that we can get a reasonably accurate feel for what is required to make the week work.
If you may be sailing 2-up rather than solo, but don't definitely have a crew please indicate this with either 'TBA' if you will arrange your own crew, or 'crew required' if you would like us to link you up with someone. If the latter case applies then it would be useful if you could indicate somewhere on the form what your weight as helm is.
If you want to race, but don't have a boat and wish to crew, please fill in the form accordingly. If you wish to race but need to charter a boat, again fill in the form and we will see what we can do. No promises though!!! <img src=
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Thanks.