According to the Texel Rating F18s now rate 100 instead of 101.
Getting faster every year?
Full list: http:/
Shouldn't be a surprise - sail and rig development are advancing nicely. There's way more juice in my 2009 boat than my 2006 boat.
http:/
I thought texel rating is a mathematical rating based on specifications. has the f18 specs changed?
I agree to Dazz. Apart from this, how should a 10 years old Hobie Tiger become faster? Obviously boats like the Wildcat, Infusion and C2 are faster than the F18s of the 1st generation - but it's not fair to change the rating retroactive.
Texel is not a measurement based rating, its performance based on the average boat in a fleet.
top F18s are getting so much faster that the average has go up eventually
I wish the Portsmouth numbers would do this.
They do. Since Darline has passed nobody has come forward to replace her and unless a DPN believer comes forward things will remain as is. A system is only as good as what you are willing to put into it.
You always have the option to use a different handicap system.
But texel IS a formula!!! but they have changed it. still f18, f16, a-class have all different shaped mains, who's did they measure?
The differences are not big but we try to get closer to reality.
The document can be found on http://www.texelrating.org/ (open cats)
The text on the website is:
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Update for 2010
New method of rating sails
Since 1982 the aspect ratio has been used to calculate the efficiency of sails.. Modern square top mainsails are more efficient than triangular mainsails. The aspect ratio approach is not correct for ‘modern’ sails. In Australia a new system already has been introduced in 2008. In the OMR, (offshore multihull rule), for around 140 cabin multihulls of the multihull yacht club of Queensland. In 2008 comparable new formulas have been tested in Holland which will be introduced in the Netherlands, Germany and Norway and other countries.
The new formula for the mainsail is a combination of two values. One is the measure of rectangularity of the main. That is sail area main divided by the rectangle p times e. (p being the height of the sail (vlm), the length of the luff, e being the dimension e, the length of the foot of the main). The other ratio is the ratio (p/e). A higher and narrower mainsail is more efficient. The product of both values gives: msam_ex_mast / (p * e) * (p / e) = msam_ ex_mast / e ^ 2.
The formula to find the right efficiency factor is:
Efficiency factor main = c 1 * (msam_ex_mast / e^2) ^ p 1. For beach multihulls
The constant c 1 = 0.67, the power p 1 = 0.3
The efficiency of jibs is based on the ratio: msag / lpg^2.
Lpg is the perpendicular from tack to luff. The formula being used is:
Efficiency factor jib = c 2 * (msag/ lpg^2). ^ p 1
The constant c 2 =0.72, the power p 1 = 0.3
For cabin multihulls the formulas are the same as the one for the beach multihulls., The rated areas will be:
rsam = eff. factor main * msam_ex_mast + area mast (if a swivelling mast). For open cats msam always includes the area of a swivelling mast if that is the case. No separate adding of the mast area.
rsag = eff. factor jib * msag.
Basic TR formula
To harmonize the basic Texel Rating formula with the ones used since 1997 in Australia for a group of around 170 cabin multihulls and in France for a group of around 120 multihulls, the decision is made to return for the open cats to the formula used here before 2002, resulting in TR = 100 / (1.15 * RL ^ 0.3* RSA ^ 0.4 / RW ^ 0.325). For all cabin multihulls the constant 1.15 is lowered to 1, like in both foreign countries. That changes the absolute values of the rating numbers, but not their relative positions..
Correction for no dagger board(s) or centre board(s)
The correction factor for designs without efficient dagger board or centre board is changed from 1.03 in 1.04
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Geert
top F18s are getting so much faster that the average has go up eventually
Paul,
Are there two Texel systems?
Not in direct relation to the performance I've seen on the West Coast, Gulf and East Coast in regards to the F18 vs. N20.
So, in the whole US Sailing organization, nobody is addressing this issue? Since the T's are out of the Olympics, I would hope my dues go to something that benifits the beach cats.
So, in the whole US Sailing organization, nobody is addressing this issue? Since the T's are out of the Olympics, I would hope my dues go to something that benifits the beach cats.
Lee, You're name is Lee, correct? After the initial number for a boat is created (which is measurement based) the number changes based on the data received and processed, that's how DPN is supposed to work.
Problem 1, data has always been VERY hard to come by, and it's everyone's responsibility to submit results but only a small minority make the effort.
Problem 2, Darline wanted someone to take over the DPN task long ago and NOBODY stepped forward. So, she did the best she could for us.
Problem 3, and this is our biggest problem APATHY, it is rampant and it is our enemy!
Now we can sit here and say
I pay my USSailing dues it's USSailng's responsibility to take care of it
Maybe it is maybe it's not, at this stage I don't care. The point is if you want this issue addressed
WE
(the sailors) have to address it.
Personally this issue isn't high on my priority list, handicap racing is for pu$$ies. Why people give so much cred to handicap results is still a bit of a head scratcher for me. Yeah, yeah... the area quals use handicap racing to pick the area reps...bring me something that satisfies all the requirements and I'll be your biggest fan.
It is a volunteer organization. For our niche, we have run out of volunteers. I'll have some news by the end of the week.
Yes it is, that's why I put it at the bottom of my posts.
Interesting analysis of the Area Qualifiers and those who compete in them. I would love to sit around a fire and discuss the topic with you sometime since I'm sure mood is lost over the internet. I so much more enjoy being called childish names in person rather than behind the safety of a keyboard.
I guess the main point is that things haven't seemed to change in the last few years. I appreciate all that the volunteers have done to give us numbers to begin with. I wish I had time to dedicate to help the cause.
John, what can I do to help and get involved. I've bitched enough, now it's time I tried to help with things.
Did you know I sail in my area qualifier every year?
Phill,
There is one general Texel Rating system, it's formula based.
That means we take the dimensions of a boat, put it in a formula and that gives the rating
But there are versions, a beachcat version and cabin cat/tri version.
The bigger cabin cat and tri's have provision for screechers etc..
And there are a couple of variants on the Texel Rating systems, for instance the Australian multihull yacht club of Queensland uses a slightly modified version of the Texel Rating.
Geert
Geert
top F18s are getting so much faster that the average has go up eventually
Paul,
Are there two Texel systems?
Yes, there are 2 systems....
The proper one and the one that only I can operate in my head!
Sorry about that, i was sure that I had read about how they knock out the top% and bottom% from each class of finishers and work out the number based on the average for the mid fleet!
I'll get me' coat....
That part is correct!
Nico Boon makes these analyses every year, so that we have an indication if our formula is still correct.
Geert
No, since I usually never read the bottom half of results posted.
Thanks for clearing that up Geert.
were not doing any betting in Oz, the VYC (Victorian Yardstick Council) have maintained the handicaps for off the beach craft for many years, John Donaldson has maintained the system for the last 18 years and has retired some 9 months ago now. still no one has stepped up to the plate to replace him.
not looking good at all!
John
Why doesn't the multihull council and USSA simply pick between Texel or SCHRS for the Area Qualifiers for the Alter Cup championships?
Clubs could then choose between the 2008 Portsmouth table and the measurement rule for their local handicap racing.
Hey Mark -
The Multihull Council does not administer the Area Qualifiers - the Area Reps do as part of their volunteer work. While it is true that the Area Reps make up almost the entire excom of the Council, they actually run the eliminations for the Multihull Championship Committee. The Committee is free to decide to change handicap systems.
To put it another way, the Council can't tell the Committee how to administer the Championship or the Ladder Events.
And, Lee - let's chat soon. I'd love to get your perspective.
John, I'll see you at Alter Cup. I've got a couch if you or Dennis Kee need a place to stay. Small place till I get my house built but can handle one guest. PM me and I can give you the address if you want.
That part is correct!
Nico Boon makes these analyses every year, so that we have an indication if our formula is still correct.
Geert
Even if all F18s have to comply to the class rules (dimensions, sail area, etc.), why do they have to have the same Texel rating? I think we can agree upon that more recent models are faster than early ones - actually this has made the F18 field of Texel finishers as such faster. If F18s race among each other, no rating is used - but in a mixed regatta the new ratings penalise early F18s like old Tigers, Inter 18s, etc. a lot.
There is no old tired flexible boat discount in any reasonable handicap system.
Put the same rock stars on brand new Tigers and what is your guess at the time difference between this Tiger and a Wildcat in an hour?
It will never happen but my guess is ...that it is not
much faster
You realize that the precision of these rating schemes is only 1 % (they round the rating off for a reason).
If you had a perfect formula that reflected the small speed difference between a Tiger and a Wildcat...or a Cap 1 and 2 or a F18 and Infusion... it would be rounded off in practical use because the far larger factor in time around the course is the sailor. (Olympic races have spreads of 3 to 5%)
My point being that using a rating with more precision is not going to make the handicap game any fairer or allow handicap racing to manage the differences between F18 Tigers versus F18 Wildcats.
On the other hand... getting an accurate rating is essential! Texel's vetting of their rule by comparing the middle of the fleet times versus Portsmouth's approach of comparing the performance of only the first place boat gets you to an accurate rating system much faster.
I believe in the the Box Rule that makes up the Formula 18. If you took all the
old
boats and put them on the water as brand new boats I think you would see that the formula is working. Each owner is able to update their boat with newer equipment, such as sails. If you think that old boat with old equipment should get some consideration with a better rating I have to disagree. What would denote a change to the same time penalty as they make upgrades to their boat? There are conditions that Tigers and even Inter-18s shine. I feel it would be a huge disservice to the class to make these distinctions. We are growing great with the setup and the goal is class racing in the end.
Dan DeLave
Texel ratings are based on specs, not age, sorry. Tigers are still really fast in the right conditions as well. Don't make it more complicated dude.