I think Jake's more high tech. He probably talks to his Ipod named
the Jake 9000
I personally think that a well-sailed double hander will always be faster than a well-sailed singlehander - only because the number of activities is subsetted into double the amount of brains and hands.
For example. My Crew trims main MUCH better than I could do it alone while driving. He's constantly looking at telltales and sawing that sheet - making us fast fast fast. He reacts to my changes in course much faster that I could alone, just because thats ALL he's doing upwind whereas my brain would be focused on driving first, and trimming second. He also does a great job of telling me when my driving sucks when his arms get sore <img src=
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I used to sail a H17. I hated sailing it alone. I hazard to say that I was bored while sailing solo recreationally.
There are only two boats in that photo that are more than 5 years old. Eight of them are less than a year old.
Haha,...If i
get out
any more often, i will have to live on my catamaran (as i will be out of work/money and a roof over my head) I sail EVERY weekend (year round), usually fri,sat sun... i was being sarchastic (as usual) about the fact that i have never actually seen a NEW catamaran, and have seen 100's of USED hobies.
My first boat was 24 years old, my second was 22 and my curent cat is a baby at 14. Most of the guys i sail with are in the same boat 14-25 year old cats..
I am glad to hear of NEW boats being sold
For example. My Crew trims main MUCH better than I could do it alone while driving. He's constantly looking at telltales and sawing that sheet - making us fast fast fast. He reacts to my changes in course much faster that I could alone, just because thats ALL he's doing upwind whereas my brain would be focused on driving first, and trimming second. He also does a great job of telling me when my driving sucks when his arms get sore <img src=
alt=
/>
I used to sail a H17. I hated sailing it alone. I hazard to say that I was bored while sailing solo recreationally.
Tell that to Charlie Ogletree. He SMOKED all of us at the last Texas Catamaran Championship I went to. That A cat made us look like we had Barges for boats. Light A cat will ALWAYS beat a 2 up boat, if sailed right.
Doug
So, what kind of
off the public airwaves
info has mr Curry been feeding ya ?
Wouter
Wouter:
Bob just said F17 would suit may weight better at 210. And he think it is a stronger built boat than the Blade. Still want to sail both of then before I make my choice. Both are great boats, DON'T get me wrong.
Doug
You dont say <img src=
alt=
/> <img src=
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/> <img src=
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/> <img src=
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I love sailing two up, working in a team and succeeding as a team. After 8 years on the T it was hard to let that class go, but we had to move on. To be able to improve as sailors, we had to split and get two boats which we can sail alone or to match each others.
Ability to go sailing one up or two up is an enourmous advantage. Being able to take the girls sailing, which was very risky on the T, also counts. In addition smaller boats are cheaper to run as wear and tear is not so large as on the heavier boats. Sails are somewhat less expensive etc. Being able to handle my boat on land without breaking the back is also very important.
So Mitch Booth and his crew choice on a 'T' and Charlie on an 'A' up and down... dude, you're on!
You can't compare Charlie with weekend warriors of course he's going to run circles around the fleet.
Now, if you want to proove you're point put Charlie on an F16 uni w/spin and Mitch and crew on the sloop w/spin and in varying wind conditions on say 10 races and I think you'll find it's a wash... unless of course the F16 uni really is slower than the F16 sloop 🙂
I am just looking at the best of both worlds. <img src=
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/> <img src=
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/> I uni that is competitive THAT you can throw a jib and crew on AND still also be competitive. <img src=
alt=
/> <img src=
alt=
/> That is why I got out of the two up boat (IE Hobie 16) a long time ago. <img src=
alt=
/> I lost my good regular crew and could not find another to replace. <img src=
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/> <img src=
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/> NOW they have good boats that can be sailed both ways. <img src=
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/> I just have to choose which one I want. <img src=
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Doug
There are only two boats in that photo that are more than 5 years old. Eight of them are less than a year old.
Haha,...If i
get out
any more often, i will have to live on my catamaran (as i will be out of work/money and a roof over my head) I sail EVERY weekend (year round), usually fri,sat sun... i was being sarchastic (as usual) about the fact that i have never actually seen a NEW catamaran, and have seen 100's of USED hobies.
My first boat was 24 years old, my second was 22 and my curent cat is a baby at 14. Most of the guys i sail with are in the same boat 14-25 year old cats..
I am glad to hear of NEW boats being sold
It's been an incredible season for new 16's all over the country. Also the local craigslist is short any decent used Hobies. Seems that gas prices are making people think about selling their stinkpots and bigger sailboats and getting into smaller sailboats. Hopefully it turns out to be like the '70's...for boat sales not disco!
J
Glad to hear!
Finally, an UPSIDE to $4.00/gal gas
I sold my Stingray to get my A because I couldn't go out in rougher conditions with my kids. Then my family couldn't sail with me on the nicer days so I bought the 5.8. The A is fast and responsive but there's no way to describe the feeling of power with the 5.8 <img src=
alt=
/> My answer is buy two older boats about the same size to double stack in the shed.
regards
The best advice I can give you is to indeed test sail both boats and be sure to do all the beach handling yourself as well. Don't take my word or Bob's word for anything; find out yourself.
The claim that the F17 is better suited to your 210 lbs then the F16 (or even the other way around) is just plain BS. There is absolutely no basis on which to arrive at that conclusion. Really, there isn't. (I'm 198 lbs)
Wouter
That would be one interesting test !
I venture that the conditions will determine the winner here if the crews are absolutely equal with the sloop edging out an advantage in the high end with the uni doing so in the
just single trap
conditions. In the really light stuff and mid range (reasonable trapping) conditions the test will be really tight.
Would love to spectate this one !
Wouter
I recently bought and outfitted a Wave for my family and myself for fun and simplicity.
Now am on the prowl for a bigger boat.
The Nacra 17 or 580 look like the boats for the single-handed, sometimes two-person sailing I want.
To respond to your question, Mary. There are simply too many choices in bigger boats and too many rigging issues and too LITTLE information about the many questions that arise when looking into the bigger boats.
A buyer now, I think, simply throws his hands up and looks for something he can get his head around more simply.
What's the right term for a cat sailor who is into all the tweaks? Like a motor-head to car aficionados or a geek in the computer world... A tramp monkey? A centerboard-head?
It is a market of riddles, and like the thread on pitching boats noted, many people are somewhat more concerned that they NOT pitch, swim, break stuff -- and have a then fascinating (irony here) time putting everything back together -- when it was hard enough to put it all together in the first place.
The cause in my opinion falls at the feet of the builders.
The cat has evolved from the Hobie 14 experience to a myriad of too many choices with too many doodads, and it appears now to be swinging back to the Hobie 14 type experiences but with more power and an desire for more stability.
And if US Nacra doesn't do more marketing and I am going to be a sad man... and just go buy an A Cat.
I have given up on Hobie. If they would import the Hobie 15, I might love them instead.
/rant off
An excellent advantage of a smaller, lighter boat is that encourages wives/girlfriends/children to participate. Everyone likes to go fast and if you can do that on a boat that is easy to rig, confidently rightable by a light crew in all conditions and easy to sail (reasonably light sheet and halyard loads) you have a winner. I think getting the whole family involved could help in the resurgence of the sport.
Of course I have something to contribute here.
The fact that a given boat can be fully tweaked out doesn't mean it has to be to forfill your desires/needs.
I actually see the ability to tweak it out to be an advantage rather then a disadvantage. It adds and extended live to the boat and maintains resell value. Typically there are two ways an owner can go after a boat purchase; reselling the boat later on because
It wasn't for him
and
looking for more performance
. Buying a trimmed F16 (just the mainsail), will be a good upgrade from an old secondhander that everybody should start out on, and later on it can always be sold on within weeks or be gradually upgraded along with your new desires. Same thing applied to F18's and other tweaked boats except maybe the A's were all the money is in the basic stuff (carbon hulls and mast) and you can't sail one without every part being on the boat.
Anyway, on a global scale the real world of choices is really small when it comes down to beac cats (able to traverse the surf).
Hobie Wave
Hobie 16
Hobie Tiger
Nacra 500
Nacra Infusion/F18
Nacra I-20
Dart 18
A-cat
F18's from other builders
F16's
All the rest are just local classes with a strong fleet in one location and no where else like the F18HT's and the US version of Nacra 17's, or too disorganised to matter Hobie Fox, FX-one. Others again are just tries by builders to put more models on the water without really supporting them to succes : nacra 450, nacra 580, hobie 15, hobie max and almost the entire big builder listings apart from the craft named above. Sadly designs like the Taipan 4.9 aren't sufficiently supported by the manufacturer as well. And of course Formula 20 is dead by now and all that is left is the Nacra 20 class.
My advice would be to concentrate any choice of boats to the above listing; I see no need or desire that is not covered by that listing with the exception of the niche that F12 could fill (introduce and training young sailors 8-16) to cat sailing in the way the optie and laser dinghy do). Yet the F12 is not ready and won't be for a little while to be on the above listing.
Wouter
In the Northwest, the Hobie 17 fleet continues to grow. We have had five regatta's this year, with the H-17's usually one of the larger fleets. The H-17's signed up for the Hobie Cat North Americans at Harrison, BC, August 25-29 now stand at 20, nearly twice the fleets of H-18's and Tigers.
Caleb Tarleton
H-17 6446
That would be one interesting test !
I venture that the conditions will determine the winner here if the crews are absolutely equal with the sloop edging out an advantage in the high end with the uni doing so in the
just single trap
conditions. In the really light stuff and mid range (reasonable trapping) conditions the test will be really tight.
Would love to spectate this one !
Wouter
Or put two midgets on the A Class
Smaller, Lighter Singlehanders and Folding!
Hi Everybody,
A-Cat addresses crew problem and boat weight for easy manipulation, but the price is STORAGE ISSUE.
As long as you cannot keep your A-Cat at home, with the carbon mast in a safe place, these kind of boat becomes a problem.
Except 2 clubs in the country, sailing club's managers are not very happy to see A-Cat on the parking.
The reason is obvious, each time you have a big wind conditions, there is always an old laser or similar which
flies across the parking and crashes on your carbon toy.
It triggers many problem between the owner, the club and insurances, that is why A-Cats are usually not welcome.
The solution would be a quick folding boat&mast, stored in a box on the trailer.
For the rig, Ben Hall has provided a very interesting solution considering storage problem. a folding wing has no compression above the hound, so folding does not create any problem, Instead a 2 parts wingmast will be far less optimum than a classic one part model.
It will be probably the same problem for the new 16's with kite and carbon mast.
If in addition we could get a boat with carbon cross-beams plugged into a conical housing (no bolts nor nuts)very easy to put apart, we would get a solution, unfortunatly, not the cheaper one.
As a result, the whole boat could be stored in a big box on the trailer and remained imune of most casualties.
Sorry , my English is far from perfect, I still hope it is understandable.
Good wind to everybody
EK
I started out sailing cats singlehanded 25 years ago on a Catapult. Moved on to a Dart 18, when my sons were old enough to crew. On to the Dart Hawk, and then when the sons got their own cats, I moved to the lighter Spitfire and had some light girls crewing for me. Now my crew has finished college and may not be available all the time, and I'm not sure that I want to commit to attending all the events in a season, so I am going singlehanded once again and only have myself to answer to. The Spitfire has been sold and I am picking up my Shadow in September. I have decided not to go for an
A
because of having to drop the mast after every sail, and not being able to leave the boat unattended on the beach, even for a minute, between races, if there is any wind at all. Also I like having a spinnaker.
One of my sons is probably about to buy an
A
, but I feel that the Shadow suits me better.
Get them to park the A between the Nacra's that way nothing will get broken when the Lazers go flying <img src=
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Dermot,
welcome to the club. The more I sail my Shadow, the more I love it. It is definately a
Spitfire For One
. I think you'll thoroughly enjoy it. I take it you know where to find the Shadow forum, where you'll find lots of advice (not that I suppose you'll need it!). Putting 2 and 2 together, will you be sailing it at the Reg Fest?
At 65 and while trying my best to stay in shap, I discovered lifting a 30' stick was no longer enjoyable or possible lol.
So about 10 years ago I started sailing smaller and lighter cats. I found them much more responsive, faster to set up and take down. But most of all, I like the idea of being totally responsible for the outcome of my efforts, good or bad in a regatta. Finally, the less bells and whistles, the better...
So about 10 years ago I started sailing smaller and lighter cats. I found them much more responsive, faster to set up and take down. But most of all, I like the idea of being totally responsible for the outcome of my efforts, good or bad in a regatta. Finally, the less bells and whistles, the better...
what boat do you sail?
welcome to the club. The more I sail my Shadow, the more I love it. It is definately a
Spitfire For One
. I think you'll thoroughly enjoy it. I take it you know where to find the Shadow forum, where you'll find lots of advice (not that I suppose you'll need it!). Putting 2 and 2 together, will you be sailing it at the Reg Fest?
Thanks Simon, Yes I'll be over for the big party <img src=
alt=
/> Hopefully Henry will have the boat beamed up and I will get there in time to rig and race. I will need all the help and advice I can get. I sailed a Shadow about 2 years ago and loved it. It will be tough jumping on to the boat and trying to race it straight off, but I'm sure that I'll learn a lot over the 3 days. See you there ?
Dermot,
yes I'll be there - it'll be good to meet you! I've found the crowd very helpful, as I am sure you will too. It should be quite a bash!
Moved up to a 33 foot monohull. Then to sailboards.
Now happy with a Bravo, with a 16 for when we get time to haul it to a real lake and rig it.
Not sure how much longer I will keep the heavy 22 foot monohull.
Went from a NACRA 5.8 NA w/Spinnaker to a Prindle 18-2 various reason that have already been covered; not always having a crew, being able to drive the boat hard and recover from a capsize single handed, take family out and beach with out worrying about getting the boards and rudders up when beaching and getting back to the simplicty of a Prindle. Most important was having a boat I am comfortable taking my son out when we go camping at some of the lakes in California next summer where if it whips up I will not be overpowered or have the ability to de-power quickly.
I went to the A-Class because it is a single-handed boat. Do not need to find crew. Do need to find more time on the water and more practice. I am what slows my boat down.