Alter Cup Area Elimination Sailors

I think if the elimination is a stand alone event, then yes, all should be members. If, like this years Area D South event, it piggybacks on an existing event then no. I think it would be bad form to tell people that sail annually in an event that they can't this year because a decision was made to make the event a qualifier.

+1

I'd still like to hear the Golden Anchor spiel again.

Golden Anchor Program

I think you have three options.
1. Strictly enforce the rule of be a member or do not compete. Kinda harsh aint it? It can do more damage than good in the long run, pushing people away will leave them bitter.

2. Be lenient and do not enforce anything, if they win then make sure they are members. But then its a catch two because we are not enforcing the rules.

3. Leadership - My favorite. if my subordinate fails I have failed him. A good leader makes sure his people are setup as much as possible to be succesful. If I were area rep, I would start tagging folks early on. I would surely get in touch with the regulars who have a chance at winning the event. I would make sure the top 10 teams are registered and all their paperwork is good to go. I would then work hard on the rest to make sure they show up and give them all the options available.

But I'm missing where it allows the sailor to be identified as multihull. I'm a little slow. . . wait, we knew that!

My point was, if it's in the NOR, everyone in the elim fleet needs to comply.

David, is this issue really unique to the Alter Cup? Do the other USSA Champs events (monohulls, etc.) require all crew members to be paid members?

If it's not really required by USSA, take it out and make everyone happy. But, my sense is, this is an across-the-board policy.

ksurfer, no one is talking about sending people home from an existing event. They would simply not be allowed to race in the AC elim fleet.

In reality, it rarely works to combine this event with another cat event, because it's viewed as more expensive for the sailors, and lots just opt to sail the cheaper event (they don't have to pay membership). Or, they decide to race in a larger OD fleet. This has happened over and over again, especially in Area A.

I agree with Robi, as leaders we need to show the value of the membership, rather than cram it at people, especially on the day of the event. That is what we strive to do with HCA membership.

Having said that, I disagree that it's OK to follow that with partial compliance. The worst thing to do is have a rule that isn't followed consistently, that just creates bad mojo.

Mike

Okay, the standalone event and strict rule enforcement, easily done... sort of. However, the reality of it is the host clubs get a little squirrely when you tell them between 15 and 20 boats this is why we go with combined events from time to time or at least it's why it was done for ADs 09, which was a lesson learned, I'll stay away from that in the future.

Robi, interesting you defined what you would do as Area Rep, I like it, shoot me your cell so we can talk. Sounds like you might have changed your mind about my offer?

I honestly do not think I am mature enough in the entire racing scene to be even considered. I consider myself a junior sailor within the crowd. I do not think its a good idea at such an early stage.

wus!

Grandpaw knows best!

I keep hearing you guys talk about

my chances of winning the event

. I think we would see 3 boats at any regatta if we placed that much value on getting on the podium. Is that REALLY what you guys think the AC eliminator is about? Really?

At the end of the day, it's actually quite an interesting, though provoking, and challenging way to race when you commit yourself to racing an entire fleet on portsmouth handicap. The conversations, the opportunities, the fresh change in strategy (covering a guy you owe three minutes too doesn't help you). It's a freaking regatta. If winning is everything, I expect to see all your boats up for sale effective immediately.

Lastly, you don't have to cater to

the guys that have the best chance of winning

. They can play or they can choose not to play. The event is the North American Multihull Championship and whoever wins it has won it regardless of who's name was or wasn't on the roster.

Jake, maybe you are misunderstanding my point. Or maybe you are just enfazicing, I am not sure, but you are quoting me.

My point is, leadership is key. Leaders make things easier for there subordinates. If you have one particular team that you know will win, but there paperwork can jeopardize that podium spot and you are there area rep you wont do anything to help them?
A good leader takes up newbies as well and helps them move up through the ranks teaching them as much as possible.

Obviously this isnt a coaching thing that Dave will make us Golden Olympians or world champs but he can help us all understand the INS and OUTS of being a US Sailing member and competing in such a competition like the Area Qualifiers.

Is it called the Alter Cup

Qualifier

or

Eliminator?

I don't think it

eliminates

anyone, does it??

I mean, even if you come in 3rd you can still qualify by going to some other event, right?

Case in point, we had 15 teams show up to our area qualifiers. Only ONE team was not current with there paperwork. I updated my status the registration night.

That is what I mean, if I were area rep (and this can go as a suggestion) I would have looked at teh registrants list. I would make every effort possible to check their US Sailing Membership and to see who is up to date and who is not. I would contact those who were not up to date, and inform them the importance of there membership particularly for this event.
This works good on two points. Keeps the qualifying event cheaper; and keep the membership requirement at bay.
Cheaper because the team would not have to renew their membership the night of registration, possibly making the cost of the event even higher. $75 for the event, and $50 for the GA program.

If I would have paid a few weeks ago into the GA then the cost of the event would have been much lower. See what I am saying?

How about option 4:

Include membership in the cost of regatta registration. Cut'em a deal on burgers and dogs.

Pacific Northwest

Our Alter Cup Qualifier drew 17 participants last year. This event was held at a major yacht club in the Pacific Northwest. Total entrants to the sailing weekend, all classes, over a hundred.

Some of the entrants were not US Sailing members and I did not push it as they were sailing in the Alter Qual Multi start. We are trying to build from 4,5,7 entrants to a start that is noteworthy. They also have paid the entrance fee for the event.

I think that encouraging multi sailing is our primary concern. Focusing on the minutia is a quick road to obscurity. Without the numbers representing us, we look weak.

Ranking the entrants that participated and as to who qualified to be eligible (in top positions)is adequate in todays circumstances.

And as always, any one in the long list of voluteers waiting for my position, please come forward and take over. I am always willing to provide the opertunity to the next volunteer.

Mike Hensel
US Sailing Area L Representative
Hobie Fleet 95 Commodore
Father of two sailing daughters

Mike, well put. With hard working volunteers like Mike, we are growing our sport in the Pacific Northwest. Example, six of our Tigers made the long trip to HAVAMEGA. Results: 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. We also brought back two Waves to add to our fleet at Sail Sand Point.

Caleb

Robi,

I verified everyone's membership Sunday morning. Those not current were given the opportunity to renew, two people declined.

You make the requirements clear and certainly you encourage people to do things the right way. I've just hear two or three people talk about their chances of winning as part of their decision making process and that drives me nuts - especially from folks (like nearly all of us here) that don't have a tall history of winning events...it's not logical. Second, just because someone has a better chance of winning, they don't deserve any special treatment. They are provided explanation and every opportunity to dot i's and cross t's with everyone else. You run the event the same for everyone and THAT actually keeps you out of more trouble than you can imagine.

I had always maintained that all registrants in the qualifier had to be US Sailing members...I know I've had this conversation with US Sailing at some point and this was the intent. However, reading the Conditions again just now (a document I've modified in the past including adding the race and entry requirement in item 2.1), I just NOW realized the wording only applies to regattas that have multiple class starts. However, the view at one time was that your performance in the event could be negatively affected by someone that isn't even eligible for the big picture. While I do completely identify with the motivation behind getting more sailors on the water, we all have a full schedule of other regattas throughout the year for this. This IS a special event for US Sailing...that said, it is going through some significant (and positive) organizational changes so the focus can certainly shift.

OK, before anyone else pulls the martyr card; as evidenced on this site, lots of us spend inordinate amounts of time volunteering for the sport. We may heartily disagree at times, but we all put a lot into this.

I agree that lots of effort needs to be spent on growing the sport in many regions, but that is a totally different discussion than managing this event. Indeed, the USSA Championships aren’t known for having large turnouts, that’s totally not the point.

Obviously, having a larger event helps keep the costs down. I do not think having this as a stand-alone event is a good idea. The best format that I’ve seen is to tie in with an existing, non-cat regatta (such as Lipton Cup at Quincy in Area A). This way, all the cats that show up are there to race the elims, and you avoid the issues of people wanting to not join and sail the “fun event,” etc. As a bonus, we get exposure to the mono world.

I couldn't agree more with Jake. Ding took part of my conversation from the other thread, but left out this exact discussion (overall fairness to those that DO comply, and the notion that this is meant to be a PREMIER event).

My other question still stands. Jake, do you know if USSA membership is required for all crew members for the other USSA Champs elims?

If not, let’s change the rule. Having rules without compliance causes more nightmares and bad PR than you can imagine.

Mike

Personally I won't combine the Qualifier with a preexisting multihull event again, it just over complicates the regatta and causes confusion with the sailors and the organizers.

As for hanging the multihull qualifier off a exiting monohull event, that could work.

I don't see any relaxation of the membership requirement for the qualifiers in the future. It is a USSailing qualifier after all.

Well Said. This has been my philosophy in past years....

IMO, It is a HUGE MISTAKE for US Sailing to USE the qualifiers as a tool.... (read hammer) to get people to join US Sailing.

Gary Jobson said the following when he officially took over at US Sailing

... Jobson asks sailors to join US Sailing if

1) any aspect of US sailing helped your sailing... OR

2) US Sailing inspired someone.

if one of the following applies to you.. Join!

IMO... this invitation and reminder is the most powerful reason ever given for why you should Join US Sailing.

Why the qualifier... Well...

I ask everyone to consider what are the ways to keep all of the cat sailors in the same boat... paddling in the same direction to the beach.... (oh yeah... the boats on fire and your OD class today could have 3 members tomorrow... So... what's good for your regional sailing scene?

Fact of life is that Time and Money are limited for cat racing for most people. Most of the racers left belong to a one design class and so they prefer to race One Design but more importantly... they are duty bound to show up at their class one design race. Bottom line.... an A class sailor really doesn't have much contact with a Hobie 16 sailor. I have a very strong point of view that a regional open class championship is critical to keeping the OD fleets on point and working on a shared purpose of growing catamaran racing. Simply having OD fleets share the venue does not accomplish the same goal. Respect is earned when you race each other.

A single regional/ Area Open Class Championship that allows the sailors in the regions' one design classes to mix it up with the prize being that the winner can move on to the national championship is a spectacular way to maintain a community of catamaran racers in the region. Every one design class in the region is needed to feature the event in their schedule EQUIVALENT to their High point regattas or the championship looses integrity.

The qualifier's will never work if the motivation is the slot at the championships... Why?, It's the same reason that we don't give you money for winning a regatta. Our ego's have no problem competing for a symbol... We can deal with the pecking order that results. Competing for money... well that's a job. If you lose and don't make any money at the job... you quit and move on.

Wow, full moon isn't until next week and Chris and I have BOTH agreed with something Mark has posted this week??? <img src="<>/shocked.gif" alt="shocked" title="shocked" height="15" width="15" /> <img src="<>/shocked.gif" alt="shocked" title="shocked" height="15" width="15" /> <img src="<>/shocked.gif" alt="shocked" title="shocked" height="15" width="15" />

Like Robi has said, don't put the cart before the horse. People should be joining for other reasons, well in advance of the elim event.

And, as I have posted many, many, many times, I totally favor bringing points into HCA standings from the AC elims. There is no real downside to this.

Mike

It's a bit of a catch-22.

To Zander...
A regatta can't afford to pay two memberships per boat. That would be $100 per boat extra because both skipper and crew have to be registered.

The thing is it's a bit of a catch-22. The event by itself can't support getting enough participants to handle the cost in general. You need at least 15 boats to really put on a regatta and make it feasible to run.

To get 15 boats you need to have a reasonable price regatta.

Personally I think they just need to drop the requirement for the crew to be a US Sailing member. That would make it a lot easier to require all to be members. As we know many skippers pick up last minute crews for regatta's. These are the same skippers who might not be to serious about winning the event but want to just come and have some fun. They don't want to fork over an extra 50 bucks to make their crew join US Sailing. Plus they probably would have a hard time finding a crew that would be willing to pay the money as they might be just starting into the regatta seen.

All US SAILING championships and qualifying events require membership. All of them. Even the offshore event - all crew. The only way around the membership requirement is to be invited or selected for a championship through petition, résumé or to be named by a member class. Even then, to go to the championship, you then have to join - the on-line registration won't even take your money anymore until you join or renew. On-line registration will eventually get pushed down to the qualifying events.

I hear what some of you are saying; that you need to attract people to the events and membership is expensive. I tried to build the Area D event up to be a top-shelf, well-run and solidly officiated two-day event. That was what, IMO, attracted racers. I also tried to have some swag to give away. Those elements made it seem just a notch above the average weekender. There are only two events a year for which membership is required - your qualifier and the championship. The benefits of membership last year-round; discounted fees at other events, access to good insurance, and now, a 50% discount on Hobie Polarized. That discount on Hobie products alone will pay for your membership, and the discounted entry fees throughout the year don't hurt. Add the free rulebook, which I really wish more people would read... it isn't that long.

Joining through the Multihull Council's Golden Anchor program automatically identifies you as a multihull sailor. If you've already renewed as a regular member, you can call US SAILING and they will switch you over, quick and painless. If you need to renew, drop me a PM with your e-mail and I'll send you the form, or take a look at the latest issue of the Hobie Hotline (in print or on-line) and fill out the form there. It gets you a nice discount off the regular dues prices.

I would not have objections for having non members at the event. They just should not be considered in the standings for qualification.

Damn - thanks John. I need to switch my membership over to MCGA. I renewed just before the Cup this year without even looking at the different options online.

Heres's what y'all have to look forward to as your sweet butts get wrinkled with age marks:

Based on JWs urging, I looked in my wallet to see when my USS membership is due for renewal...ah...expires 6/30/2010, good, at least I am current.

I will call tomorrow and convert to MHC Golden Anchor.

Somewhere in the back of my mind I remember a recent letter from USS. Ahha...here it is. Well, inside is another membership card , expires 7/31/2011.

At this rate I may be a life member before I ever make it into the GA program.

Like I said, I will call tomorrow.

TODAY...OK John, I called Kate and I am in. And apparently I paid twice this year <img src="<>/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin" height="15" width="15" />

My scheduled Alter Qual crew is a US Sailing member. He had a dealth in the family prior to the event and needed attend to his family instead of racng with me. My backup crew not updated US Sailing member. Should just be skippers requirement!