Actually, there are some P-18s being advertised for not that much more than we paid for the P-16, so if we could sell the P-16 and replace it with the P-18 to get a boat with similar characteristics and setup time, that might be very nice indeed. But the closest one is 5 hours away ;->
And Hobie 18s are often available for similar great prices.
The P-18 is lighter than the H-18, and doesn't have comp tips, but the H-18SX has these fun looking wing seats, and a furling jib sounds useful. How do these two boats compare for setup? I assume parts are pretty available for either boat.
Hmmmm good thing I'm not really in a hurry to make a decision ;->
Jonathan
I sailed Pamlico sound for ten years back in the 1970s. The hobie 16 was the boat of choice but it was the only boat to own in those days. Given a relatively "fixed crew weight" of 360 lbs I think the best choice that would also represent a value would be a Prindle 18-2 or Prindle 19.
I love the NACRA 5.8 and 6.0 but the boards are a bit of a problem in a sound where the charts are about as reliable as the stock market these days. The Hobie 20, and FOX as well as the INTER 20 would have the same issues with the boards.
There are more Prindle 19s out there so you can buy them for less money but you will need to walk before you try to run or you will likely end up a "smoking hole" as pilots say for people who buy the amount of plane they can afford rather than the amount of plane they can handle.
The Prindle 19 is light weight and made of the same core material and polyester resin that all of the other production boats of it's era are made of. You can buy racks (Which I have grown to love) for about $1200 and with a properly set up boat you'll have a nice machine that sails well in relatively flat water and 6-22 knots of wind.
Dont let people fool you with talk about extended set up times, fragile construction or other nefarious concepts. These boats are all triangular rigs basically two shrouds and a forestay. The halyards are all similar. The jib halyards vary slightly but take about the same amount of time to rig and parts availability is roughly the same for all the major builders that are still in business.
Call me TOLL FREE 800 354 7245 if you would like to discuss the other nuances of why I think this is the best choice or stop by the ULTIMATE CATAMARAN BUYERS GUIDE at: http:/
Have a great week.
Mark Michaelsen
Bigger and more powerful....may not be what we need yet if my wife still asks me to reef the sails when the wind gets high.
Speaking of which, how many cats have reefable sails, other than the P-16? Should this be a concern?
Jonathan
Jonathan,
THe builder/designer of the g-cat line is Hans Geisler -- he'll fix you up with just about anything you want/need. He's not building boats anymore but has a ministry call Northstar- he shows underpriviledge nations how to raise fish/farm fish. Basically, a real nice guy -- real unique. Had a great platform with the G-cats that would fit what your looking for in a family boat. I really enjoyed the 6.0 -- just didn't have a family at the time. Actually, I would get one now just to teach the wife and kids how to sail. Boat has front and rear tramp and is a three beam boat that is sooooo solid. No boards, no head aches. Overall, that's what I'd go for over everything else I have seen mentioned.. Might be a bit difficult to find one -- once people get one they tend to keep it (that has to tell us something). But, if you get a hold of Hans he'll hook you up. Mary ran a small bit about Hans in the last Catsailor so she probably has a way to get in touch with him..
Best of luck.
Steve
I must honestly confess that the only hobies that I never sailed are the TheMightyHobie18, H20 (miracle) and the H21.
So I can't help you here.
I thing I can do is given you some comparison data from teh Texel handicap system
prindle 18
Rating = 110 + 3 (correction for not having daggerboards) = 113
Length 5,47 mtr.
Weight 161 kg's
Mainsail 15,15 sq. mtr.
mainsail luff 7,87 mtr. = about mastlength -0,5 mtr.
Jib area 4,39 sq. mtr.
hobie 18
Rating = 109 with daggerbaords
Length 5,52 mtr.
Weight 183 Kg's
mainsail 15,30 sq. mtr.
mainsail luff 7,83 mtr. = about mastlength - 0,5 mtr.
jib area 5,56 sq. mtr.
Both boats as good as the same length, as good as the same mainsail area and mast height. Although the Prindle is 22 kg's lighter (about 50 lbs) and the TheMightyHobie18 has 25 more jib area.
Performance upwind of the TheMightyHobie18 will be a bit better due to the boards although certainly not overwhelming better. On other courses it is any bodies game, boards aren't really needed there and ofcourse most boardless cats are good reachers and give any boarde cat a good run for their money.
Furling jib no furling jib what ever you want, these things will fit on all boats.
That is all I can do.
Wouter
Once you sail on a winged-cat, you'll never want to sail anything else. The comfort and added excitement of trapping out on top of the wings just makes for a combo that can't be beat, and also, you stay drier on the wings ![[Linked Image]](/forums/images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon}
Steve took the words out of my mouth. We have a few that sail in this area. In fact Hans was at the Barton race this weekend and if you look at the results posted by Bob you'll see the boat is very competive for racing. The front tramp is nice to have. Add a roller furling system for the jib and forget reefing the main.
I know someone who has two 5.7's and may want to part with them.Email me if you want more info.
Mike Catley
Wouter, you are an amazing source of information.
Thanks!
Jonathan
Mark - thanks for the info. I will give you a call when I get some time (it might be next week, this week is pretty tough at work....)
Any suggestions on where to look for Prindle 19s and Prindle 18-2s? I am not seeing many of them for sale, and the prices on the ones that are being sold are a little higher than your online guide would indicate.
Jonathan
By the way, Mark, you mention the problem with the boards, but don't seem to think that the Prindle 18-2 or Prindle 19 would have the same problem with the boards as the other cats. Do the kickup centerboards make that much of a difference?
It sounds like it might be reasonable to think of getting a P-18, Nacra 5.7, or Hobie 18SX in the near run, and moving up to something like a P18-2 or P-19 when we have significantly more experience?
Jonathan
i have a '97 P16 and it doesn't have reefing, and never did. i suppose i could add reefing points to the sail, but i can't see why i would want less sail. the helm is fine at 15 knots.
The Prindle 18-2 is significatly easier to sail than the Prindle 18 classic or the NACRA 5.7 at a crew weight of 360 lbs. The Prindle 19 would be biting off a lot all at once but the 18-2 should be manageable if you have proper instruction. The Hobie suffers from the same flaw as the NACRA 5.8, 6.0 and the Hobie 20 etc with the daggerboards. The centerboards on the Prindle kick up (Although it's best to bring them up beforehand) in the event you hit a sandbar or other unmarked underwater feature.
I took the plunge and gave Mark a call. He gave me some additional information that I found quite helpful.
In my earlier emails, I mentioned the Pamlico Sound, but I didn't mention that most of my sailing would be on Lake Jordan, where the winds are light. For that kind of sailing, it sounds like a big sail area is a good idea, and the P19 would be a great boat. And the P19s are often available for a lot less than the P18-2s.
But we're nowhere near ready for it yet! We're going to have to learn to sail on something a lot tamer. Since we're still having fun on the P16, there's not a compelling need to switch right now. Of course, if something we can handle becomes available at the right time....
Jonathan
Mark, can you explain why you say :"The Prindle 18-2 is significatly easier to sail than the Prindle 18 classic ... at a crew weight of 360 lbs"
Thank you
Wouter
Wouter:
The Prindle 18 is a tough boat to sail at 280lbs (suggested crew weight). It doesn't tack well (especially above the 280 crew weight). The long waterline and low prismatic value make the boat a beast to manuever especially intacks in choppy water. The Prindle 18-2 sits up much higher and has a nice centerboard to rotate around. The buoyant hulls and high prismatic value on the 18-2 mean the boat will have a lighter helm and be more responsive especially at higher crew weight values.
I have personally beaten the Prindle 19s boat for boat in winds over 20 knots on a regular basis with the Prindle 18-2.
I hope this answers your question!
MM
I have had two twenty foot cats... A hobie 20 and a Nacra 6.0. I loved my Hobie 20. In heavy air the comptip spilled the top of the main off wonderfully and made heavy air sailing fun. I love my 6.0, too. However, what it gains in power it looses in comfort.
The Hobie in heavy air put a big grin on my face. The Nacra 6.0 puts a GIGANTIC grin on my face and fear in my heart. I would never trade back to the hobie (the wife thinks otherwise), but the power can be overwhelming.
Paul,
I find your remarks interesting and that they do not match my own experience. I switched from a Hobie 18 with Compost to a Mystere 6.0 that has a square top sail. The Nacra 6.0 has that square top, right?
(btw, I usually sail solo)
I find that the top of the Mystere sail spills, when overpowered, much more effectively than did the ComPost. The diagonal batton that extends the top of the leech bends wehn the sail is overpowered. When that top corner bends away, it takes much of the leech of the top portion of the sail, out with it. This results in a huge loss of sail shape up top and dumps a lot of pressure out of the windward side of the sail. That results in reduced healing.
I had a normal Hobie 18 before I had the one with the Compost. I was never satisfied with that compost. I also never noticed that it was any good at dumping air when overpowered.
Perhaps you are far more observant than I am. But while I never noticed the compost dumping air, I often see it happen with the square toped sail.
Hi,
The Nacra 6.0 NA is a pinhead (class). What I noticed most about the Hobie 20 main was how much the downhaul opened up the leech of the main. The comptip bent off much more than the spar on my 6.0 can. The Miracle was in my opinion much easier to depower, where the 6.0 is a lot more powered up. The fact that the Hobie had a boom and the Nacra is boomless adds a twist to the comparison as well.
A post from another lifetime G-Cat owner.... I rig and sail this boat mostly solo, and I weigh only 145lbs
In light air, I spank the pants off my friends sailing P-18-2s and P-19s. They've both got brand-new Smythe mylar racing sails while I'm using some 1981 Smythe dacron racing sails that are well worn and much patched.
Since the Jib connects to the forward xbeam, it has a lot more area. With the forward trampoline installed, you can lounge up front and pull the rear of the boat out of the water. With a little maneuvering I can lift the rudders clear out of the water this way. Needless to say- this is a great boat for shallow water sailing.
*The G-Cat 5.0 (~16') will easily handle a 360# crew, but later on you'll most likely want to go to an 18' boat.
*The G-Cat 5.7 (~18') will handle a LOT of weight- and it has the room to carry it. I've had 7-8 people aboard my G-Cat, easily over 1000#s, and the hull-stripes weren't even in the water. We had ~12 knots of wind and nice 4' rollers to play on, and the boat moved and handled very well.
*The G-Cat 6.1 (~20') is an all-out racing boat, with as many control lines as the P-19s and Nacras. To my knowledge only two of these were ever built, and my friend owns one of them.
*The G-Force 21 (~21') came out in response to the Hobie 21 race boat. It's another racer, but not many were built. I've only seen one, and it's been heavily modified with an 11' beam, 34' mast, square-top main and roller-furling jib.
* The G-Force 36 (36') came in two varieties- the Sport Cruiser version with an open tramp fore and aft, and the Salon Cruiser version with a cabin aft of the mast. I know one person that uses the Sport Cruiser for a charter boat.
As for parts.... stock replacements are hard to come by, but parts from other boats will interchange. H16 mast hounds, Hobie rudder systems (with a little shortening of the arms), etc. If you snapped the mast, the mast-hinge section could be transfered to something like a H-18s mast. Due to a beach capsize during a storm, I've had to replace the spreaders and rudder system on my boat. I've also replaced all standing and running rigging, and most recently bought all new Harken blocks to replace the old SeaWay and Ronstan units. These boats are incredibly durable, a friend of mine has four 5.0s and four 5.7s that he uses for his rental business. He's had some of these boats for 20 years and counting!
The 5.0 and 5.7 boats are incredibly simple to rig. I usually rig mine solo with no mechanical devises for assistance.
There are not many control lines. The main sheet and main traveler (I have them both on different ends of the same line), the downhaul (and you can add a main-camber adjustment that works like an outhual in reverse if you feel the need), the Jibsheet and the Jib barberhualer (wich I've seen set to "automatic" on a few boats by using bungee cord and some snap-shackles)