F16/F18

Interesting that you find it necessary to

protect the gonads of the innocent

especially since you're the poster child for the whole light of day thing. Don’t bother telling me who said it I know who it was and their motivation behind it. And Pete it’s not as altruistic as you think it is.

As long as the F18 fleet has the critical mass to find a host willing to put on our North American Championship with an F18 only course we will always work towards that goal. This of course assumes that it is the wishes of the USF18 membership to pursue this type of format. The USF18 fleet is run by the members for the members and if wants to go in a different direction that's what we will do.

Personally I don’t see how adding another fleet to the F18 course enhances the North American F18 Championship.

<img src="<>/whistle.gif" alt="whistle" title="whistle" height="15" width="15" /> Ding has his panties in a wad!

Who said anything about altruism? And if I'm the

poster child for the whole light of day thing

. What does that make you? The Prince of Darkness? You know

their motivation

? Now you're a mind reader too? No wonder I can't beat you at poker. If I'd known all your powers I wouldn't have wasted my $3.

Lighten up Dingy! It's just sailing! <img src="<>/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin" height="15" width="15" />

Nope... not getting sucked into the void this time. See ya Pete.

<img src="<>/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh" height="15" width="15" /> Have a nice evening!

No protection needed. Daniel Hearn said this. Daniel Hearn believes this. Daniel Hearn races in the F18 and F16 classes--usually with his kids; and also in the A-cat class. Daniel Hearn enjoys all three classes and is not interested in carrying a torch of

one is better than the other.

Daniel Hearn loves cat racing--period! If his motivations are not altruistic, Daniel would be interested in knowing what they are. Signed, Daniel Hearn

+1

Umm. I'm not so sure that a big, modern catamaran extravaganza would absolutely have to be a National Championship. It might be a neat thing in and of itself.

We just had a lot of fun with around 40 boats of all descriptions and the world didn't spin off it's axis and fall into the void. If it had been 100 boats it might have been even more fun.

Maybe we should try it some time?

Racine Race Week

sounds nice. But I like the sound of

City of Palms

race week even better. http://www.cityftmyers.com/

We have our own river district. http://www.cityftmyers.com/Default.aspx?tabid=544

It could be like

Mardi Gras

south! Or Charleston but not so cold.

ok...sell it.

What are the advantages for the F18 class to combine their Championship event with the F16 class?

What are the advantages for the F16 class to combine their Championship event with the F18 class?

...or not.

It's the fleet/championship thing that seems to be devisive. I'd like to think about

Mardi Gras South

for awhile and see how it grows on me. Fiddle around with the concept of a training seminar/race package combine for two or three days. And maybe a distance run down to the Gulf and back one day. Try to get some tee times just in case the wind doesn't cooperate. Might throw in a fishing charter or two, some tennis, maybe a little kayaking... The more I think about it the more possibilities come to mind. Hell maybe even propose that the F16s drop a National Title event in favor of Party Week! You just never know what people are going to do...

Blasphemer

+1
I share the viewpoint of Ding and like him I really wish you'd stop trying to stir the pot, all your doing is creating politics that detract from what the F18 and F16 for that mater are doing to grow. You say it's just sailing, but to people like Ding and others who have done the work, it's a lot more.

<img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" /> The pot is being stirred only if you allow it. I can't make you angry, you choose to be angry.

The thought being offered is just an idea. As such it is as valid as anyone elses. As we've seen this evening, more than one person agrees with the idea. If those who wish to maintain the status quo were less hostile, you might find a pleasant exchange of thoughts that leads to something better.

In any case, minus the hostility you would have a pleasant exchange. Imo, that has value in and of itself.

The real problem here is not pot stirring or difference of opinion but intolerance. People will always disagree but if it's managed properly it can be constructive.

Hi Jake:

Here's the rest of my post from which Pete pulled the quote--

I am among the relatively few teams that have the ability to race both platforms. That being said, however, I would NOT be in favor of moving the F16 event to allow for more convenient attendance at both. I’m encouraged to see something proposed in the spirit of cooperation between the two classes, but I believe such efforts would be better for NA catamaran racing if the outcome truly brings the two classes closer together, rather than maintaining separation. In my opinion, at this point in time, the best thing for the NA cat racing scene would be for the F16’s and F18’s to stage a single Formula Race Week with the two fleets racing on the same course. (Yup, I said it. Go ahead and start the flame throwers). We simply don’t have the critical mass that exists in Europe. Maybe someday we will. Bigger events provide undeniable scale advantages that translate into much greater value for regatta participants and much less financial risk for regatta organizers. If people have that much vacation time to burn on cat sailing, I suspect they’d be far more likely spend it on a Formula and an A, than on two Formulas.

Daniel Hearn
F16 #157
F18 #601
A-Cat #180

I'd also suggest that the discussion should be refraimed around the question: how is this good for catamaran racing? Now, more than ever, our sport is competing for people's limited recreational time (and dollars) and the statistics regarding the decline in participation in any type of sailing are frightening. We need to pull together and make it more fun to attract new people. That will require compromise and inclusiveness, and the absence of exclusivity and class wars. That's the only way we'll prevent becoming a fringe sport. (If we're not one already).

One example of compromise would be two classes racing on the same course. Everyone knows it's much less of a drain on race committees. And yes, there would be boats on the course that you're not racing against that could have minor impact on racing outcomes. But I would argue that if you're good enough to win, you'll win anyway. Small sacrifice for the greater good, in my opinion.

I thought the F16 was invited to the F18 NA's this year and only 7 F16's came. Did the F16 class not get the news ? Why didn't they come ? What will make next year different ? All classes are welcome at Spring Fever in GA and it is central why don't they come?

I did attend the Racine event. However, I'm not really sure it can be said I attended F18 Nationals. We sailed a separate course, with I-20s, and it seemed to me that worked out very well.

By the time the invitation to F16s was issued most of us had used up vacation time. And a number of folks didn't want to be the cause of any unpleasantness so they just stayed away. It should be noted that the F16 class has not been polled on this matter. I suspect there would be a strong sentiment for separation and a number of F16 sailors would not have attended in any case.

Nevertheless, I agree with Daniel, though I believe ours is the minority view.

As for Spring Fever, I started my basic training at Ft. Benning in January. I have no fond memories of Georgia. This is a purely personal decision that I feel no need to defend: if I need a dry suit, I won't sail. And I absolutely despise red clay.

I've had a long day at my two jobs and my brain might as well be thrown to a hurricane. I think I like where you're going - but in an effort to simplify it, bullet point it for me. Think of me as an arbitrator. I'm neither for nor against (that's where I really am)...

Benefit for catsailing:

Benefit for F18:

Benefit for F16:

Here are some I thought of

Pro:
Lot's of boats racing
Good for advertising
Bigger party
More money for event
Lean to sail clinic
Cost could be lower for sailor

Con:
Not as many races
Some sailors would want to sail both events
Conflicts on race course
Need more space for boats/people/RV's
Could dilute each class
More staff to run event/food
Would confuse people watching if both classes sail the same course

Why don't you represent the NA F16 class (don't know if you are a committee member or not) and organise a Formula event inviting the all other formula classes F16, F18, (F20 and F17 even if they are not true F classes)

If you can sell the event as a must do on the calender, then sailors will come. If you can not, then it will be a flop.

You could even create a new mix class event inviting all and stick the F16s and F18s on the same course/start and race first across the line. Once again, if it is appealing to sailors, then they will come. If it does not, they won't

If you have a desire, then organise it. Don't expect others to do it for you.

I think the

problem

here is, when you attach the title of

North American Championship

to the regatta, it goes from fun racing to serious racing. I fully understand (and support) fleets wanting their own separate course for a true North American Championship, free of contaminated air from those -other- boats, what ever they might be.

Now, to the point of a Hobie Megga type regatta, for Formula boats, that would be fun, just don't call it the NA's. There are some who race in both F16 and F18, if you combine the regatta, they won't be able to do both, obviously, so one of those classes is going to lose a few boats. If we want maximum turnout, we could have a week long regatta for F boats, but race F16's for 2-3 days, then F18's for the next 2-3 days. The teams who do both can then do both, in the same location, and have a race course that is clear of those -other- boats. The rest of us can show up, race our 2-3 days and go home, or stick around for more party fun or as Pete mentioned, do some sight seeing in the local area, what ever that might be.

Bingo Timbo

Timbo

Are you saying that you personally will show up for a week long F16 NA's.... and a week long Formula regatta?

Fact of life... most sailors budget their time with their nationals as their top priority IF THEY CAN AFFORD THE TIME AND MONEY.

One of the issues with selling the US Alter cup championship is the Reply... You know... even if I won the qualifier... I would not participate because I want to go to my NA's or some class regional event.

Perhpas you should try to shape the F16 schedule to hit the existing big regional regattas and get the fleet together for a big three day weekend event plus your week long NA event.

Doesn't the Tradewinds do what you are asking for?
Rick

Bingo Ricko

We already have mixed fleet same course regattas. The only relevance this thread has is if you are talking about a National/North American Championship.

Daniel, you say a mixed fleet same course regatta will bring more boats to a National Championship. I don't agree, there is no chance I will spend close to $2,500, drive 24 hours and burn 5 days of vacation to attend mixed fleet same course regatta especially when I can attend one in my own back yard nearly once a month. In fact I just attended one of those, it cost me 65 bucks and it was 35 minutes away.

If the F16 class wants to put on a Mega event then do it nobody will stand in your way. As Tornado Alive said, if it has traction it will survive it it doesn't it will go away.

I'm going to get a guitar. Learn to play said guitar, then hog tie Pete and David and sing Kum-Bi-Ya till they're praying for death.

YES SIR! THANK YOU VERY MUCH SIR! <img src="<>/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh" height="15" width="15" />

Uh, Ding is the one throwing the tantrum. I was trying to have a civil, adult type, discussion representing differing views.

irrelevant.

The decision is made.

I'd strongly consider having my ears removed.

resistance is never futile!