F16/F18

Mark,

I think the point of this post was to look at getting the fleets to start working together to promote catamaran sailing. Hobie has long ago elected to head down a path of isolationism, and the A class rarely if ever is willing to get on the water with boats of any other make or style. The F18 and F16 classes are 2 of the more active classes left. We as sailors complain that there is no new blood, yet we continue down the same path. Larger “mega style” catamaran events or whatever you want to call them would at least allow for the possibility to generate more press, sponsorship and exposure to the public. If they do not know it exists, it is going to be hard to get people to participate.

I am a lot more motivated to schedule my time and money to head to an event with 100 boats than one with 20. (Nationals or not) More boats mean more money for the regatta to organize better events. It provides a much better opportunity for the organizing club to come out ahead and not lose money. A certain critical mass is required to afford production costs to have outside sponsorship, and media that can then reach out to the internet and the public. In the long run it means less total volunteers as there is 1 big event, as opposed to multiple little events held is separate locations.

Logistically there are things to work out as far as maintaining some of what we expect from the racing on the water. Where it can be arranged, maybe separate courses for the NA level races? If not, what are we really losing? I have never been at any race where there was not some obstacle “interfering “ with my getting around the course and “competing” against the other boats in my class. Sometimes it is boats of another class, sometimes it is a network of moored boats or crab pots. No matter what all competitors in the race have the same obstacles to avoid, so an argument on that destroying the quality of the event is a bit childish at best.

My view is we work together promoting the sport and cats and the class (all) will grow as a result, a lot faster than continuing to be separate and as openly antagonistic as a few of the current class leaders seem to be.

I've seen Ding get excited - that wasn't it. In fact, I think he's been pretty

matter of fact

about it.

Just having an event with more boats isn't going to get more people into the sport. What is the purpose of having a combined event? To promote F16?

If you want to get new blood into the sport then here is an idea which we may try:
Have an event where you must sail with someone from outside the cat sailing group as your crew. Get a 29er, Albacore, 420, or Laser person to crew for you and get them excited about it.

Mark, I am one of those guys who cannot afford -any- week long regatta, which is why I said 2-3 days each...pay attention.

Matt, the premise of your post, and at the root of the recurring suggestion from Pete to do combined events, is that the two fleets somehow aren't promoting catamaran sailing. Both are, and doing it well. They do it a little differently. You shouldn't be surprised that, after suggestion #942,673 to do a combined event, you might get an exasperated response.

John,

I am sure the people involved all feel they are promoting sailing. I do not mean to say otherwise. I however, do not agree with the current approach.

I am not expecting this to change, by posting my opinion or not. It is my opinion and if I was just sailing my A class or my H16 still ,I would feel the same way about it.

I do not understand (what I perceive) as paranoia from some in both the F16 and F18 class.

Carry on

+1 on the basic premise but as Rick White said, there are already some events like Tradewinds, Spring Fever, and Racine that probably do the same.

Another poster batted the A-Class for being isolationists, hmmm. As class president, we do what we think grows the class in organizing and scheduling our events. We think what we are doing is working and I've invited any A-Class sailor who thinks the class leadership is making bad decisions to become a class officer (interesting how quiet most get after that response). I think most in our class believe in getting boats to multiclass events. We had 13 boats at the Wildcat and 10 boats at Lake Carlyle last weekend. There were 14 boats at Spring Fever this year. I know we disappoint Rick and Mary by not being consistent at Tradewinds but we love our week of racing at the Islander in Islamorada every January and most of us have to use the Tradewinds weekend to travel home but some can stay and race. We owe a lot to Rick and Mary for hosting us when we first started coming to the Keys 10 years ago.

But for the major class event which is the NAC, we prefer to go it alone and I can understand why the F-18's would prefer the same.

Bob Hodges
USA 230

Are you still sailing at Bokeelia? I believe there is a place for you on the river in Ft. Myers if you're interested.

Oh dear lord. Pete, you just don't stop! 😉

No I don't. Have you been to Bokeelia? It's quite small and out of the way. Their event may well have out grown that spot,as gorgeous as it is. IF that is the case there are other local options.

I'm going to do my best to reestablish catamaran sailing locally. I can't imagine why you would have an issue with that.

But it is in the back yard of one of the class members.

In anticipation of the 2012 Worlds being held at the Islander,
a winter circuit has been created this year in Islamorada. The Bokelia and St Pete regattas have been relocated to the Islander to go with the normal Jan winter regatta.

Thanks Mike.

A few questions from the outside...

1, What size are your

meetings

; Most classes in the UK do joint (or more events). few weeks ago was Reg-fest; probably 100 boats in 4 different classes; 10 days time is the grafham open; around 150 boats on 8 starts on 2 courses; over the spring / summer there are probably 20 odd

multu class

opens; the ONLY time we generally have single class events is nationals etc; even then the smaller classes team up.

2, What is the problem sailing on a course with a few more boats; yes it is a little more busy!

3, yes some people switch classes, but hey; much better to have people sailing a boat they like (or fancy a change to) than not sailing at all!

You mean from the other side of the POND were society is accustomed to not categorizing into 2 party systems. Ironically, there is a large A-Cat contingent in the US but most that I know are British (LOL). We could have a field day of drawing analogies but I digress.

I have shared course with Ynglings, F18s and 470s all at the same time but not the same start. No problem, all part of the tactics as we were not racing the other classes. Just more

stuff

to go around.

Cooperation, what a bad idea. Especially if you are fanatic or worried about your own class only.

Rolf and Simon - at issue isn't multi-class events; there're lots of those and they're fun. As you point out, Simon, the only time you generally have single-class events is at the national level. Same thing over here.

Matt

Watch lighting strike me.... Hobie has slowly but surely changed their policies and now sail points regattas at multiclass events. They have tried to invite F18's to Madcatter. Point being... they are evolving as well.

A Class's sail several multiclass regattas for the Atlantic Coast Series. West River SA, Rock Hall YC, and Hobie Fleet 32 hosted multiclass events with A class starts, other multi's and your standard dinghy classes. Bristol and Hopactong hosted A class only events.

This is a freakin unicorn! I see little or no payoff here but would love to see some positive evidence of such. (EVERY CLASS believes this cannard but nobody has proven that it works)

The Ski industry markets fireplaces and parties at the lodge apres sking... NOT the Downhill to attract new skiers. The sailing industry markets nothing.

Advertising the regatta basics... turnout/participation, resumes of the top racers, the expertise of the race committee your class has obtained and the

hot

venue is marketing to other racers in other classes.... Cruisers and recreational sailors could care less about this stuff.

How to market racing to cruisers and newbies is an age old problem.... but NOT one addressed by tweaking the regatta formats.

I don't see how a MEGA catamaran event really works for promoting cat racing.... we are just preaching to the choir ... worse... the X class thinks that the Y class is trying to steal their sailors (see, the old hobie paranoia with respect to open class).

My view is that many sailors are motivated by

special events

more so then a series but a class needs a series to keep it's focus.

I suggest that the New England F18's have the right idea... they are supporting Newport Regatta (100 plus boats) and this weekend's American YC HPDO... 100 plus boats. The A class had scheduling problems this year but plans a big return next year to those events. The West Coast F18's pay the extra freight and endure the extra hassle for participating in the NOOD regattas.... I think this is a better marketing approach to attract other racers.

My proposal would be for each class to focus on their regional regatta circuit and make sure that you maximize the fun factor. Therefore, you must get 10 boats on the line at designated points regattas, any less and the fun factor will be on the slippery slope to hell (not to mention your ability to recruit new members) ... If the numbers drop... drop the weakest event. Strong regatta turnout is essential to keeping the class viable in a region. Promote this as a strength. If you want more racing, (and you will as your class grows)... add events as open class events where you get that 10 boat turnout of other boats (EVEN WHEN YOU SHOW UP WITH 7 BOATS). In my opinion... when you get the regional circuit correct... the national turnouts for midwinters and NA's will grow steadily and be sustainable over time.

I watch the Hobie Div 11 guys and they are extremely loyal to their class... they routinely get 85 to 90 percent of their fleet to their scheduled points regattas. It is a proven strategy!

If you want three day regional championships (as this thread purports) My advice to the F16 class is to figure out... the Gulfport and Spring Fever conflict.... move gulfport at least a couple to 4 weeks away from Spring Fever. Show up with 10 boats at spring fever (or loose your f16 card) ... then make gulfport a F16-F18 two man race.... put the single handers in a start with the A class and market the event as He man...Old man single handed championship of the world. and the F16-F18 race as the lightweights versus the heavyweight championship of the world. (or something actually clever).

Cheers.... (your milage will vary)

If the F16 and/or F18 class are interested in a combined event, then it is best for the committee members to contcact each other to organise. Talking about it on a forum will not do it.

As for promoting cat sailing, it would be far more effective to organise an open event for Multis, Monos, Boards (and yachts depending on location). I have been to quiet a few events like this and they tend to stand out as some of the most enjoyable regattas. You will see more kids............. and ladies <img src="<>/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin" height="15" width="15" /> at these style events. All potential Multihull sailors.

I agree with Stephen here. The best way to get into the heads of future multihullers is to go to these types of events.

I think the point was to float the idea and see how much support it might have among the rank and file.

How do you guys manage a large kids and adult regatta?.. The YC's have moved to separate these two events to properly manage each. We used to have the club

annual regatta

which
had opti starts on up to the big dinghies... These are the least popular events on the schedule these days.

The big east coast event this weekend is the American HPDO which is a multiclass adult only event.

he stole my thunder! +1