For all who want to know here is the info on the 6.0
That is fully rigged. The only changes that I have made to my boat is replacing all the nuts/bolts with titanium (aircraft) bolts. That took a few pounds and are alot stronger (did it before the last worrell I ran). Also, I baked the hulls when I got the boat to get the boat to fully cure. Each hull weighed about 5 lbs less after and according to a friend who builds racing airplanes make the structure stronger and less likely to draw water.
Other than that its stock. That weight was without the spinnaker setup and related spin gear
--- Carl, I agree with you totally, I am just showing that maybe we want to look at crew weight being the adjusting factor over boat weight. If I increased my boat weight to a minimum then I could reconfigure my sails to crew weight (as would other teams) and then we would have basically the same platforms (I said basically).
--- Marc, My ego is not driven by winning races. I enjoy sailing/racing and really don't give a hairy rat's A## where I finish as long as the field is semi level. I race in order to improve my sailing skills and to be outside out of the office, away from the phone. My job is stressful enough to freak out if I don't win doing my hobby. If I wanted a nervous breakdown I'd play golf !! One thing that I am tired of is basically this. I'm 190 lbs 6'3" have a 32 inch waist (so as you can see I'm not a fat body) and I still have to race against crew weights that are optimum for 16-18 foot boats. Hell, I could race those boats and be semi-competitive but, where in the hell is the boat/class configured for my weight group???? You know where it is???? Let's all toss out the Randy's and that class of sailor. Let's look at the rest of us hacks out here. How many of us weigh 150 lbs??? How many 170 lbs??? Crew minimum is two 160 lbs guys --- hell other than cat sailors I don't know any 30-40 year old 160 lbs guys. And out of the catsailors the only ones that I know a Randy class.
Back to Carl --- this is the reason Carl that the series is looking into 22 to 24 foot boats because the monohull guys won't come into a class for small people. We needed the big names to pull in the yacht clubs and the y.c's to pull in the sponsors so that's how the food chain grew.
Vladimir, I actually have weighed the trailer alone then weighed the boats individually. The best thing is my tow vehicle is a diesel so the weigh was free!! Got to love it.
Steve
Would it be a good idea to ask the particular boat companies to "sponsor" a particular class for the event? This would seem like a fair idea, as it would allow more sailors to participate (with several classes), as well as defray some of the financial burden (of additional staff, logistics, etc.) to the major sponsors (Tybee, Rolex, or whomever). The mfg. could specify which class (like the Hobie Fox class, the I-20 class, Marstrom 20 class, etc.) to add to the NOR, and the organizers could (at their discretion) add an "open" class or formula class.
If boats of widely different d-PNs are used, I guess one option would be to have staggered starts, with the slowest off the beach first in an attempt to have them all finish at the same time to save the poor RC from having to sit all day (or several days as the event progresses) judging finishes.
Carl,
Thanks for your compliment on our Worrell 1000 videos. (For those who don't know about our videos, see our ad in the Catsailor Classifieds.) We're back from this year's race with about 100 hours of raw footage to sort through and edit down to the 2-hour highlight tape. Assuming that the Formula 500 race does not conflict with the Worrell 1000, we will most likely do a similar highlights tape for that race as well. As you know, we are not paid by anybody to travel up the coast and shoot the Worrell 1000, and the money we receive from tape sales has never even covered our costs. With some financial help from registration fees, coverage on the water of some, if not all of the boats would be possible. We have been working on designs for a waterproof system and boat mount. We had some boatcams in the 2001 race tape and will have some in the 2002 tape. We look forward to continued improvment of our methods. It has to be a system that we can afford to lose, since flooding and impact damage are not merely a possibility but an eventuality. (Team Cat Fever shot with our boatcams this year and trashed two water resistant housings and one camera. But it's all in the name of getting great footage.) We welcome comments about our videos and suggestions for future videos from the sailors, other race participants and viewers of our tapes.
Robert & Jeanine Feldman
-Hi Steve
With Catsailor magazine climbing the web site popularity list recieving millions of hits during the Worrell creating a niche in the marketplace many very sharp avertising and sports marketing firms I,m sure are aware of this and the next logical progression to ESPN t v time and a series of races .
Racing Prosail and the Ultimate Yacht races in 88 on then brand new Hobie 21s with shutes ,seen on NBC Sports and on ESPN WERE GREAT FUN , one of the best years I had sailing ,-
If opportunities are there more major sponsorship is key , the best existing platform and proven design is the ARC 22 in the 400 lb range and still manageable and affordable --In this size range the human scale to boat sail area size is no longer a factor and is the solution to your weight requirements and event requirements . It could become a F-22 Class based on the ARC specs. it is a great design -
ARC-22 Specifications
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Designer
Roberts / Haberman
Specifications
LOA: 22 ' 0" (6.71 m)
LWL: 21 ' 9" (6.63 m)
Minimum Weight: 415 lbs. (188.24 kg)
Spar: 38' 6" (11.73 m)
Maximum Sail Area: 360 sq. ft. (33.45 m2)
Beam: 12 ' 0" (3.66 m)
Draft, Rudders only: 2 ' 0" (0.61 m)
Draft, Board down: 4 ' 0" (1.22 m)
.
developing a new specific 24 would take time effort and energies away from promoting the racing series , plus the ARC 22 IS IMMEDIATELY AVAILABLE FOR CREWS TO TRAIN AND PREPAIR . Each team would need a sponsor or team budget of 40 to 50 k to campaign it as some Worrell teams now recieve , this would take some time , planning, and serious commitment for all involved , but many avid racers in numerous classes including the Yacht Club crowd mentioned all have been through similar campaigns ,have the caliouses and battle scares, with experiences to see it through and make a great success of it .--Good people involved in each aspect---sponsors ,organizers ,partisipants, are key .
kEEP WORKING ON IT , let us know how to help .
Carl
Lloyd Berry got rid of this ARC 22 because it was "a beast" and hard or impossible to control in hign (even medium winds). No SC 22s were racing at this year's Miami to Key Largo, Hogsbreath 100, or Mug Race. There is a reason for this! They are over the limit of reasonable control.
As far as placing large crew on these boats, you will only jepardize your mast. The ARC 22 racers are hitting the garages and distance racing is safer because of it.
Stick with the 18s and 20s! As far as the F-20 idea, why not just go one-design I-20? There are now lots on the market and forcing Nacra 6.0s, Hobie 20, and Tornados to make major modifications and undertake major expenses will doom your efforts, IMHO! I suggest, I-20 and N6.0 one-design classes, and the F18 and F-18HT formula classes for the new Formula 500 regatta. Like several others, including Robert Feldman, have said-Please don't conflict with the W-1000 dates (or place the races too close), as I would love to do both!
Hi Feg
Hope to do both races also , according to Tybee race organizers dates will not conflict . It would be a matter for most established sponsored teams to offer the advertising and exposure of two major races , with increase in team budget , and possibley more in their local area.
,on the F-20 allowing partisipation from Hobie on the Fox ,r and H-20 , just as the Tiger in the F-18 class ,plus any other Euro Formula 20 design ,plus Nacras6/0s Mysteres etc,that wish to enter along with numerous Inter 20s , is a GOOD thing , and will not doom anything but increase the potential pool of partisipants and help with international teams or teams traveling across country with more potential boat availability.
-Sails are open ,like the 18 hts , this could be the only complaint by some Inter 20 owners . Elliot mainsails are very good , excellent sails, that have a wide range of adjustment from very full to very flat ,-we now have 3 jibs to choose from including a full battened self tacking type.If new shapes for spin. have evolved in the last two years it will be equally available to all per class rules or not used at all .
We may see interesting hybred cats on the racecourse, A Hobie 20 or Nacra 6/0 with an Inter 20 carbon type mast and sailplan or 8.5 beam Tornado which may prove to be it,s equal or superior in some conditions , though sailing skill will be the factor . Also sailing time on these boats and techniques of tuning and sailing them faster are also a major factor .
On the Arc ,have not sailed one but have been on the 27 ,-they are scarry fast and would require very experienced crew in heavy air conditions .
Nice to hear from Robert and Jeanie , film makers extrodinare, who film the Worrell video each year ,-the 01 film is great and a must see , I,m ordering more to send to my sponsor , and sailing friends as gifts .
Carl
The problem with scheduling in Florida is the weather. The worrell is run just about as early in the season as it is sane to do. Any earlier and your likely to be racing into a N'easter (not good -- I trained in the Jax-St. Simon's Ga. area). Much later and your in Hurricane season (hell of a thing to get ground crew caught in an evacuation). Which leaves really late in the season nov.-dec. which looks like a great time line.
When you look at the schedule of distance races.
May Worrell
June Crac 100
July ?
August ?
September -- rough riders, round the island
Oct ?
Nov ?
December -- steeplechase
The ? is for my bad memory on the schedules, please fill in the blanks. Jan - april would work if you stay south of sebastian inlet.
Carl --- On the ARC 22, I don't think the boat is right for a series due to production issues. IE How many can be built in x period of time? As for sponsors, we have them signed up. We're working out the kinks with the YC's also looking at the costs of running a transport for chartered boats. Basically looking at the plan again post Sept. 11. Also, working out the kinks with the insurance companies (this one is the best hurdle).
Thats where the series is at. Do I think the ARC is overpowered ? NO I have never heard of a sc/ARC 22 mast failure (as mentioned above) I have sailed the sc22 in 20knots (405 lbs of crew) -- had a ball, scarey fast w/ chute.
But, then the only boat that has ever bitten me hard is the Nacra 6.0. I've crashed a few but the one on the 6.0 was the worst (3broken ribs, 3 fractured ribs -- same side, cracked cheekbone, jones fracture in right foot all in one high speed stop -- sailor meets sidestay and mast in 25+ winds = sailor looses) Took about two years to get my head straight after that one.
Steve
Steve,
I think that November holds the most promise and I could personally make it work.
I have added the April Florida Races to your timeline., so
When you look at the schedule of distance races.
April M2KL and HB100
May Worrell
June Crac 100
July ?
August ?
September -- rough riders, round the island
Oct ?
Nov ?
December -- steeplechase
Any idea about the classes racing?
Steve,
Tell us about the 'hull baking' thing.
How did you do this?
Where did you get this done?
Bruce
St. Croix
"Baking" a boat only really works when the boat is new. However, I do it once a year to dry out the moisture in the boat due to ocean racing.
First you disassemble the boat down to individual hulls. (you can leave on any blocks but, mounting bolts (for crossbeams and rudders) need to be removed. Also the plugs need to be out.
For a new boat, Vacuum out the hull the best you can.
For a wet boat, Hose out the inside with a 10% bleach, 5% dishsoap solution (kills mold and lifts salt). Make sure that you do not fill the hull -- never have more than about ten gallons of water in the hull. Then rinse liberally with fresh water until it rund clear/clean. I taste test the water just before I stop. If it tastes salty I redo, if soapy I continue to rinse if it tastes like a boats water tank its ready.
Next, place the hull deck down on three saw horses. (I do both hulls at one time places side by side on different saw horses 36inches a part.
Next build a T beam. Basically, four inverted T braces length tall enough to keep the tarp off of the huls with a 2X4 beam running the equal length of the hulls.
Next I use a heavy X army tent as a tarp to cover the whole lot. Note DO NOT LET the tarp touch the hulls. I use the gromets in the tent to tie off the tent to ensure that it doesn't sag on the hulls. Make sure the tent touches the floor around the boat.
Next, I set up two electric space heaters (one at each end about two feet in to the tent). Then I place two floor fans (small-set on low) about six feet in from the heaters and point them straight up. Make sure that nothing electric is under the hulls because they are going to drip water!!!!! This is really important.
Then I turn on the heaters to medium which is about 120-140 degrees and let it run for two days.
NOTE if the boat is new use a milk crate and make a floor vent on one side of the tent to let fumes vent.
The heaters will cycle so you don't have to worry about anything catching fire and I use industrial ones that shut down if they get too hot. (Hell, I bought them at walmart so there not that expensive)
After two days shut off the heaters but not the fans. Let it cool for a day so you don't shock the process but really so you don't burn yourself on anything. Remember everything in there is about 150 degrees.
The next day the boat should still be about 100 degrees when you start taking apart the tent.
Since everything is up on a stand I usually wax the hulls at this time since the hulls are warm the wax goes on easy. For the record I use a teflon based avaition wax made for the Lancair -- you can buy it online and it lasts forever.
After all that just put the boat back together or store it for the winter.
Its a long process but the boats have stayed as new and have not gained any weight over the years.
Steve
For availability, that would have to be worked out with Aquarius, but if a new boat is designed the availability issue doesn't go away. I would think it would be easier to get more boats from Aquarius than to ramp up a new production line. The SC-22 is a powerful boat - I would say that the thing to do, either with the 22 or any new spec boat is to provide for either a way to reef the main or have an optional reduced size main for heavy air. Alternatively, I'm sure Bill Roberts would work with you to design a "more reasonable" rig for a spec series - still a better route than to design from scratch.
The 22 in our Fleet has seen lots of different conditions, it's even seen a micro-burst on the beach before the C-100 2 years back (hit by a flying 5.8 if I remember right), no broken mast... It is a fast and serious boat, but not out of control from what I've seen.
I think the 22 would be a great boat for a spec pro series capable of drawing sponsorship and viewer interest. Just my guess...
The sc 22 is a great boat I agree. We have had some talk about drawing up a formula where the sc22 would be in the formula but allowing different boat builders to build spec boats from various designs. Sort of like the America's cup. But, then you open the door to unlimited spending. The other thought is how much money do you want to spend on a boat that does the exact same thing as a boat 30% cheaper?
I'm looking at the A class historically to really see what happens because I believe that their formula works and could be used as a blueprint for any "new" formula series.
What are your guys thoughts on a F-22? Carl, I'm going to tell you this the weight minimum will be set by a committee of 3 naval architects and will be adjusted every 5 years.
Not a jab at Carl we've just debated boat weights/crew weighs for almost a year.
Steve
-Definately the way to Go for a sponsored Prosail type series,
F-22 -basic A-Class type box rule as a basis,set LENGTH BEAM SAIL AREA and BOAT WEIGHT ,add F-22 CLASS rules ONLY as needed, state the intent AS PRIORITY.
-The Arc 22 is available with lighter carbon fiber componants I believe ,-crossbeams , spin pole,- boom, -also I,m sure masts are available to further reduce boat weight. Masts or a c f top section does the most good in terms of increasing speed potential ,but is the one most expensive by far ,-I hope an enterprizing sail maker +carbon mast Co. will offer a C F replacement comptip for H {half the weight } and offer a mast +193 sq ft main with a really nice spin snuffer package upgrade .
These are also good ways to reduce boat weight on any cat design {c f spin pole and boom }along with other simple modifications ,-lighter simple rmainsheet blocks and lines ,-lighter halyard lines ,-especially long spin sheet lines . to reduce as much as 10 to 20 or more lbs all together.
Other things beyond Steve's baking proceedure described is to simpley eliminate all excess fiberglass inside and out on hulls by grinding and sanding out the interiors and sanding down and refinishing the exterior as we have seen a number of 6/0 owners do over the years, some reportedly weighing less than 400 lbs when RECONSTRUCTED AND REFINISHED , an ideal retrofit project for all the numerous existing 20s that are available , some for as little as 2 or 3 thou with a trailer , or start on the existing boat already purchased years ago and rebuild it for new exciting 20 class racing better than its original with new hull colors main and spin theme or sponsors logos.
Basic spin -snuffer packages are around 1600,-as posted earlier , refinishing is not a major expence, a mast {optional }and or main may be the single most expence, but all racing boats must replace sails periodically to remain competitive , F-opens up selection and price comparison to keep these reasonable .
Hope this is helpfull
Carl
Sounds like you've had the same problem we have in looking for a boat camera. While I am only an amateur, and have no interest in producing, I am looking for some waterproof equipment for footage to convince my friends that I'm not as sane as they may think. There are waterproof bullet cameras out there, but the recording equipment isn't waterproof, so unless the recorder is in a waterproof bag inside a hull or something, it's toast.
The Sony Viewman (or whatever) seems the most compact recorder that can be used with those waterproof bullet cams. Perhaps this has potential, or was that the setup that was destroyed on Cat Fever? Also, should you be looking to test any equipment, contact team Fully Involved, as Les has managed to break parts on boats that no one has ever managed to break. If it survives his test, it can survive anything!
Like the idea of a non one design event. In order for the race to last it is imparitive that you get a reasonable turnout the first year and it gets coverage from media and a positive story coming from the people who sail it. Nothing gets me to an event faster than some of my friends telling me how great it was last year. As far as a strict F-20 rule set...I think you should wait a couple of years. I have read the NE 6.0 fleet has adopted a standard chute that would be too big. Are you going to discourage them by forcing them to buy another $1200 sail when they just bought one? Participation is more important than a rule set at this point. For the first year put on a safe and exciting race..fine tune it when it catches on.
THANKS N-269
good comments , agree , and some other solutions are also available to include existing class oriented 20s .
First , evan in so called mfg.one design classes huge variations occur ,-we all know boat weights are all over the scale dependant largely on what time of year hulls were set up and what mix was used and how precised or sloppy the guys were that day . Variations in sails do occur, ask any knowledgable active racing sailor in any class.
In the I-20 class as with all others variations updates and changes occur periodically.
Shute prices are generally in the 800 to 900 range for the 270 sq ft spins. ,965 for the 348 sq ft E coast Smyth spin,- with snuffer package 1600 as previously listed in posts,--good used spins can be 400.
Dispensation is available to 20 owners that wish to keep existing older class specs like standard smaller mainsail ,-heavier mast and rig and total boat weight per strict class rules, ,per owners request in classes like the Nacra and Hobie 20 for example and may be allowed a design trade off of added spin area again keeping other aspects of this older class in tact for economic and other reasons they may have , it is possible to accomodate them .
My feeling is the 6/0 would be as fast with the 300 sq ft shute for 410 lb and above cats already in the F-20 rule , and certainly be much faster with a mast , mainsail , jib upgrade on the basic Nacra platform than the N E version w 348 sq ft shute with 6/0 N A class sails . the only mod used along with spin snuffer and hardware package is lengthened stays to the forward foil and spin pole.
Understand Steve and Kenny {team Tybee}plan to race Ricks {Follow the Yellow 6/0 } in this years N E 100 along with numerous other excellent 6/0 sailors with the N E set up , HOPEFULLY we will have a number of similarly skilled Inter 20 entrants to have a real life test lab to see if this match up is evan and fair through a variety of conditions over this distance and two day event.
Unsure presently of how they compare when they are raced locally in the same start round the cans , Raced in the Spring Fever with 6/0s ht 18s , Formula 18s and others on the course ,but flucky conditions did not make for an accurate comparison , though did often see Rick close by and seems very close in speed potential for those brief times .Dave and I won in the Inter 20 class .
Other similar heavier boat rig and smaller main existing classes , Hobie ,Mystere etc would be allowed the same type of dispensation if owners request it.
Should be interesting .
The other option discussed for the Tybee race was using similar rated boats and just starting them at the same time ,-run what ya brung ,-The problem here is the pandoras box of diverse design variations making design the winning factor . -a 450 sq ft shute as used in the 98 Worrell would appear and other mast head types along with reacher hooter types , larger beam lighter weight boats , etc through the list .As Matt showed in recent distance racing the well sailed Tornado with larger beam and added ft lbs of righting moment would walk away any time the wind was 10 or over just as it did for Olympic selection boat trials against all 8.5 beam cat designs . It no longer is a test of sailing tactical navagation and seamanship skills on reasonabley equal boats .
Carl
I think the secret is lipstick cams with a camcorder inside a waterproof or water resistant housing tucked into a hull. Wireless cameras are also an option, but there's more to fail and the cost per system would probably be higher. Todd trashed the first case when he capsized and it had to be cut out of the rigging. The second one, with the camera inside, flooded when it got caught under a board and got towed at 18 knots. I'll keep Les in mind for our tests. Anyone with any suggestions or who knows of gear out there that might work, please contact us.
Robert Feldman
Steve,
1. great tip.
2. the key is the temperature,..correct?,.....so If we had access to a auto paint shop over the weekend,...that would do the trick?
3. In the Caribbean sun and heat,..the wax products melt off,...but I never used the product you mentioned,....what do you think,...would the equatorial sun 'get it' soft?
Bruce
St. Croix
I-17
Bob,
A paint booth would work as long as you have great airflow through the hulls. Your not trying to bake the gelcoat but cook the composite.
The wax I use held up for an entire Florida summer! So I think it would work down Island.
One thing that you want to know both of my boats have two ports a hull one forward and one aft. Between the beam and the daggar trunk and aft of the rear beam.
I tried a fan up in to the hull once but didn't see any real difference you might in a paint booth since the heat is from lamps versus a radiant source.
Steve
Actually the Tybee race has been discussed the last few years , Chuck this year desided it is time . My understanding is the new one week distance race from the Keys to Tybee Island will not conflict with the Worrell and catsailors could do both races .
The race is in the planning stages for next year , -Issues and numerous people are being asked to partisipate and help organize ,--race officials and staff ,--sponsors ,--hotels ,municipalitities , towns ,permits required , measurement and rules ,,Coast Guard notification ,insurances , requirements and sailing resumes of teams, --recomendations from teams themselves, -safety inspection and equipement , --boats charters and parts supply availability,--RACE SPONSORS ,--movie video and filming the race ,--great coverage and race web site here on CATSAILOR ,-among other aspects to organize,-sure the checkpoints and dates will be posted .
Hope to see other similar races on the East Coast -West Coast , Mid West , and Gulf area.
in the future.
there is also a discussion on the new open forum though more of a rules oriented one ,--hope others will contact team Tybee and volunteer ,assist ,fill needed list of good people needed to make a race of this magnitude a success and send in suggestions and help www.teamtybee.com
sail safe this season
Carl