I need to repair my Battlestick, what's the best way to do this?
I was thinking about buying a roll of 1 inch Carbon Fiber Tape and some kind of jig to keep the stick straight. Is there a better way to do this repair?
that is one way to do it, another way is to place a plug that connects the two parts and then put a carbon sleeve over top of it
the sleeve can be found here http:/
Step (1) give me your boat
Step (2) never speak of this again
I was thinking about buying a roll of 1 inch Carbon Fiber Tape and some kind of jig to keep the stick straight. Is there a better way to do this repair?
You need at least 2
tape...probably 3
. You can also cut some fabric from a roll.
I've fixed several of these...I've fixed them without the jig before by temporarily epoxying the ends together and letting that cure on flat ground before starting the reinforcement repair. The jig I have has two pieces of angle iron aligned and bolted to the upper ends of a
U
shaped piece of plywood. The angle iron extend past the wood uprights so I can place two winds of tape on each broken piece to attach them firmly to the angle iron. Once one of these are done, you can do the following:
Before doing anything, rough sand the outside areas where the repair carbon will wrap with 80 or 100 grit. Lay some poly plastic on a flat surface large enough to support the entire stick (obviously, the plastic only needs to be under the repair). If you can lay it out in the sun, you will get a faster cure.
Make 3 to 4 wraps around the tubing with epoxy wetted carbon (tape or cut fabric) ... more is fine, you can sand them away. Start above the repair and start wrapping electrical tape around the stick over the repair into the clean area below the repair and back up again. You should have two wraps of tape around the stick - get it tight! With a sharpened nail, poke holes through the tape into the carbon...it will now bleed out excess epoxy and compress the carbon fibers - and stabilize the joint (I have done this without any thing aligning the two pieces before with good result). You can wrap it with a paper towel if you are worried about epoxy getting up or down the stick. Lay it on the ground on the poly. If you didn't previously stabilize the joint, roll the stick back and forth on the ground making slight alignment adjustments until it's roll shows that it is straight and true. Let it cure.
Unwrap tape (removes very cleanly once the epoxy is cured). Sand to 180 grit to clean up tape marks. Shoot some Krylon clear enamel on it...and now you have a repair that is also a decorative feature.
Are you assuming the BattleStick is straight? (ie before the repair)
That is exactly the been there done that I was looking for, thank you Jake.
Mine is repaired in the fashion jake describes.
Good explanation. I would add that peelply is quite inexpensive and would be a good substitute for your perforated electrical tape, and meant for the function you describe. But, the etape solution sounds like it works fine.
Let me start with, I use a method similar to Jake's most of the time. Sometimes, that type of repair is not strong enough so it's a good idea to know what the MIL standard method(or what it was when I took the class 20 years ago)
The differences are; 1) you need an inner plug at least 5 times the inside diameter of what you are repairing and 2) you need to taper the ends of the tube you are joining 8:1 or at least 1/2 in on each side.
The preferred plug is a section of the tube you are repairing. Cut a slit lengthwise in the tube so you can coat it with epoxy and force it inside. If you don't have any scrap tube, will have to use whats available or make something. Use a 90/10 epoxy /cut carbon fiber mixture by volume to glue the plug in place. Coat the inside of the tube and the outside of the plug
Fill the tapered section with a mixture of epoxy and cut carbon fibers 50/50 by volume (compress the carbon fibers when measuring)
I have made plugs by finding something about .5mm smaller than the ID to be repaired. Then make a mold by wrapping whatever you found with 3 layers of release film and then about 5 layers of electrical tape. Fill the mold with about 60/40 cut carbon fibers and epoxy. Compress the mixture with a dowel or something until you see liquid epoxy on the top of the mixture. It is not the best but it will work.
This fairly fresh in my because I just finished repairing a Marstom tiller that broke at my previous repair. This repair is usually stronger than the original tube, so it will break somewhere else. I have a tiller that is probably 100% repairs, it hasn't broken in years.
how do you get the peel-ply to compress the wetted out carbon? The electrical tape will stick to itself and leave a good bit of compression on the repair resulting in minimal sanding for a smoothish finish. It will still have a bulge where the repair is - but it's in one piece and a whole lot cheaper than a new stick.
how do you get the peel-ply to compress the wetted out carbon?
...
Cut it in 2
to 2.5
wide strip and lock the end by wrapping
it around the tube then stretch it to an angle where-as
each wrap covers the previous one by 1/2.
Start the wrap the same direction the carbon was wrapped
or it will bunch the carbon with a wrinkle.
Cut the peal-ply Long enough to cover your repair + a
few inches on each side.
Use tape to Lock the bitter end.
====================================================
Everything Ya said in your first post is what i would do
EXCEPT
The wrap with the carbon ---
cut that carbon so the fibers align (+ - 45deg) with the orientation of your part.
This gives TWICE as many fibers crossing the break.
The only way to do better would be to use
(Stitched Carbon Fabric) Ya get about a 30% increase in
strength by NOT weaving a fiber of Any type that's used
in composites.
You're the second person that has told me a sleeve is required. I don't have any spare tube so do you have any clever ideas on how to fabricate one with something that may be lying around the house or could be had at the local hardware store?
I take it by sleeve you mean an inside sleeve or plug.
I have used:
Wooden Dowel, This is the weakest
Bunch of little fiberglass rods. Put as many little rod inside as possible and bond the whole thing together with gorilla glue. It lasted a couple of years
Hobie fiberglass rudder pin wrapped with fiberglass and epoxy until it just fit. Worked well, the stick broke at a different spot next time.
Made a solid Carbon Epoxy plug (see original post) It has not broken
Build your own sleeve with a slit in it. I have heard of this but have not tried it. Find something 1-2mm larger than the inside with 2 layers of wax paper or release film wrapped around it. Layup enough carbon epoxy or glass epoxy to get the same thickness as your stick. You don't want the edges of the layup touching. You want just enough space to get a screwdriver in, so you can pop it off. Use the electrical tape or peel ply method to compress it. Then pop it off and trim the slit until you can just force it in. Let me know how this works.
Carbon rod or tube or fiberglass rod or tube you bought off the internet.
Tubular or rod batten from a sailmaker. The houston sailmakers have a stock of leftover battens and junk fiberglass and carbon. I can frequently find something that will work. They are nice if you bring a repair job when you go in.
Ding,
Check at your local golf pro shop for broken carbon shafts.(Do I know you or what?)You can finally mix your hobbies.
You don't need a sleeve if you can live with the repair being a larger diameter than the tube. If you plan on sanding the repair away to make the tube the same consistent diameter...then you need a sleeve.
My method makes the sleeve external around the fracture.
Thank you everyone, I ordered the carbon fiber tape today, that stuff aint cheap.
Ding,
Check at your local golf pro shop for broken carbon shafts.(Do I know you or what?)You can finally mix your hobbies.
I was going to use an old fishing pole but then I got the call (it's almost like he knows) which by the way he used a very
shut up and listen
tone. As much as I seem to find the bottom it will be good to learn how to work with the black nasty.
Ding,
Check at your local golf pro shop for broken carbon shafts.(Do I know you or what?)You can finally mix your hobbies.
I was going to use an old fishing pole but then I got the call (it's almost like he knows) which by the way he used a very
shut up and listen
tone. As much as I seem to find the bottom it will be good to learn how to work with the black nasty.
Saved by the Carbon wonder boy?
No kidding. I want to buy some cloth for a little project, and its ridiculous.
More so when I'm going to be throwing away a bunch of it.
Where are ya'll ordering your supplies from? Fiber Glast is one of the most expensive sources for fiberglass or carbon cloth. CST may be the only supplier to top them.
Solar Composites generally has the best pricing on carbon cloth stateside. ACP has good pricing on sleeves: http:/
Tape can be made from sheets of 5.7oz carbon, I do it all the time. Sleeves are much better for tube type repairs, simply because they are easier to work with. I've repaired 3 hockey sticks and a myriad of broken carbon tubes in the past few weeks and most all were a 30 minute job with the sleeve, and all came out stronger than the original tube.
On this, I will suggest you use super glue (thin CA) to bond the stick back into shape. Epoxy would do OK but CA dries instantly so if you can get a second person to apply the glue while you hold the joint in place it will work perfectly (CA is near as strong as epoxy but more brittle in this application). Then scuff the surface with 150 grit paper and apply the sleeve or tape wrap with epoxy. Use Jake's and/or Bille's suggestions above for wrapping with peel ply to get a good finish. Clear tape can be substituted for peel ply in a pinch but is likely to stick to the mess when you are done.
If you want a nice finish with less sanding, and are willing to spend a few more bucks, Soller Composites also sells treated shrink-tube you can use instead of tape or peel-ply. You wet down the cloth (or sleeve), slip the shrink-tube over the joint, and shrink it down from the middle out to each end. That squeezes out the excess resin. Once cured, you cut and peel it off, leaving a nice, smooth surface.
Be prepared for sticker shock though. The treated shrink-tube costs more per-foot than the carbon fiber sleeving.
If you want to make a plug out of carbon fiber, the sleeving would work pretty well for that too.
Regards,
Eric
Do not ask me to explain, I have documented proof that my Structural Design skills should not be trusted so I can just parrot words
unless your external repair is stiffer than the original tube, you get some bending at the repair, once that happens you are concentrating loads at the original break on a repair that is weaker than the original tube. After that, you get cracking and finally the repair fails. That is one reason you want to use a piece of the original tube as an inner sleeve, properly done, this bends like the original tube so you are not concentrating the stress...... If you use a repair that is much stiffer that the original, the tube will bend at the edges of the repair causing cracking and failure
Don't take this as any gospel, the standard methods are probably way overkill.
My method is to try a tapered joint with a external sleeve. If it breaks at same point again, redo it with an internal sleeve. The exception to this are masts. With masts I use everything I know and try not to dream up stuff that will make things worse.
Solar Composites generally has the best pricing on carbon cloth stateside. ACP has good pricing on sleeves: http:/
Tape can be made from sheets of 5.7oz carbon, I do it all the time. Sleeves are much better for tube type repairs, simply because they are easier to work with. I've repaired 3 hockey sticks and a myriad of broken carbon tubes in the past few weeks and most all were a 30 minute job with the sleeve, and all came out stronger than the original tube.
On this, I will suggest you use super glue (thin CA) to bond the stick back into shape. Epoxy would do OK but CA dries instantly so if you can get a second person to apply the glue while you hold the joint in place it will work perfectly (CA is near as strong as epoxy but more brittle in this application). Then scuff the surface with 150 grit paper and apply the sleeve or tape wrap with epoxy. Use Jake's and/or Bille's suggestions above for wrapping with peel ply to get a good finish. Clear tape can be substituted for peel ply in a pinch but is likely to stick to the mess when you are done.
www.USComposites.com in Florida or www.fiberglasssupply.com.
Do not ask me to explain, I have documented proof that my Structural Design skills should not be trusted so I can just parrot words
unless your external repair is stiffer than the original tube, you get some bending at the repair, once that happens you are concentrating loads at the original break on a repair that is weaker than the original tube. After that, you get cracking and finally the repair fails. That is one reason you want to use a piece of the original tube as an inner sleeve, properly done, this bends like the original tube so you are not concentrating the stress...... If you use a repair that is much stiffer that the original, the tube will bend at the edges of the repair causing cracking and failure
Don't take this as any gospel, the standard methods are probably way overkill.
My method is to try a tapered joint with a external sleeve. If it breaks at same point again, redo it with an internal sleeve. The exception to this are masts. With masts I use everything I know and try not to dream up stuff that will make things worse.
Hey, Hey...I'm usually the guy for overkill...but....Errrrr...it's a tiller. Making the finish on the external sleeve pretty is a bonus. I've repaired several on my a-cat and haven't had a problem (I keep dropping the tiller in the water when rounding A-mark and it gets caught under my rudder arm and breaks). The only stresses a tiller sees that might cause the kind of cracking you are talking about would simply see it break somewhere else when the repair is bulletproof.
A mast? now that would be a different story.
bingo
Does he know you're calling him that?
Does he know you're calling him that?
He does now.