Has anyone sailed both of these that can give a good opinion. I'm leaning towards the 460 due to my light weight and even lighter budget, but man, that 500 with spinnaker kit looks sweet!
Yep, been wondering the same thing.
Nacra seems to be sadly, sadly lacking in advertising their specs on various boats. Weight/crew size, tramp size.
Irks me to get this kind of response in response to a legitimate question: It's just a dang ______, waddaya want?
Fill in the blank.
It's just a dang sail, waddaya want?
It's just a dang weight of crew, waddaya want?
To which I want to say,
It's just dang money, you ain't getting much, are you?
you must mean Nacra 450..
I downloaded the complete manual (pdf) for the 450,500,570
and Blast complete with weight limits..mast stepping..sail rigging..right from the Nacra site..(they must still exist,but I have'nt been there in a while)..for even more info contact the Cathouse in Mi
google it
The 450 is a very small boat--what will your crew weight be? (The web site has a typo--it really is the 450; see http://nacra.us/450/45index.html)
For average size adults the 500 is more versatile and appealing, but if your total crew weight is 100-130 lbs the 450 might be better.
The Nacra 460 is the update version of the 450
http:/
here's all the models
http:/
ahh I see <img src=
alt=
/> looks very nice
new style beams..clear main.grippy nacra emblem on
hulls..I need one!
What if your crew weight is around 350 - 370? Which Nacra size is better?
I weigh 150-160 pounds. I will sail with my kids a lot but will also spend quite a bit of time solo. I'm leaning more towards the 500 the more I read about the two models (460 and 500). Unfortunately, I have just been placed back in the market for a new family truckster van, so my plans to buy a new 500 have been delayed. I guess you could say that my priorities are askew. <img src=
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After having sent an email request to Performance Cat, I have gotten no reply. The Performance Cat site in US has bare bones on specs with an email link if you want more information, which is what I did.
The Europe site I was not aware of, so thanks for that link.
The 460 IS a solo boat, but for an owner who wants to take a crew of, say, three of the I-want-to-sail-but-do-we-have-get-wet type, will it sail with enough vigor or just float in the water like a overloaded raft?
The 500 will more closely fit that bill, but it appears to be more boat than a solo sailor who gets to escape from work only half a day or once a weekend a month would want?
Arrrrgh.
Tramp size, sail size, hulls with right flotation capacity? I realize neither are a racing machines!
Of course, I know, it's unavoidable to get soaked when sailing. Could you agree that recreational sailing gets soaked to a lesser degree than those who race or who like to fly a hull?
Send me a pm with your email address and I can send you more info. I think I would go for the 500. It would give you more flexibility if you wanted to sail with other people later on.
500 for sure
also we just recreational sail my 450 with 2 adults all the time
once we had 3 on it..you get very wet but have alot of fun
when we had 3 on it we stood her up on her nose couple of times but she bob's up and out like a cork..the sails fill and off we go again..2 or 3 on a 450 is not advisable..the 500 will fit you better.
also you can add all the options you want to a boat but it's pretty tough to add a couple of feet.
you can also sail with just the main if you want when you're solo
Carl
Know where a sweet 5.2 (looks new) is in Texas for $3000 (think he will negotiate)? If you are interested PM me.
Doug
Kirk has been very responsive to my questions at keysailing.com .
Good, trustworthy guy. I have dealt with him in the past. You don't have to be a rock star to have him talk to you either.
I weigh about 160 and sail my Nacra 5.0 which is the same as a 500 solo very often. I haven't done it yet but its supposed to sail well uni too.
We are probably about the same size. Have you righted it solo yet? Do you carry a bag?
-Rob
-Rob
When I had my 5.0, I could right it alone if there was a breeze but could not if the wind was light.
You are definately too heavy for the 460, especially if you're taking along some kids. Go with the 500.
Another option beside the 500 is a used 5.0--excellent performance and value.
-Rob
I haven't done it solo yet, but carrying a bag would be a good idea.
I can't seem to find any used ones around. I guess that is a testament to their fun factor.
-Rob
If you search oodle.com there is one in annapolis for $650, but that seems awfully cheap. If it is in good condition they should go for close to $2k
If I am understanding you correctly, the extra feet mean less agility? If so, yes!
The 16' length and 8' width seem to mean the Nacra 500 is less agile, especially in light winds. Have heard a number of complaints about turning the longer boats in light winds, not to single out Nacra 500.
In looking at various boats, I use the Hobie Wave to start comparisons. The Nacra 460 is only 1' longer than the Hobie Wave, 1' wider, BUT has 5' more mast and about 40 square ft more sail area (includes jib?).
Assume the 460 speed factor a notch or two lower than the H16. 218 sail area vs 135 on Nacra 460. However, at 12-15 knot winds the H16 is overpowered, I hear?
Plus, at 280 lbs, Nacra 460 is only 45 lbs more than a Wave, but still in a manageable beach cat weight. However, it's weight carrying spec is much lower!
There seem to be three distinct levels of boats (can I say that among all the experts around and not get pelted?)
First, the recreational, big-weight carrying capacity. Second, the moderate performance boats with more power and less load capacity. Third, all the high performance boats. Some overlap.
Lots of factors to compare but for moderate to heavy wind conditions, more comfort on the moderate performance boats in those winds -- especially for solo sailing. Plus better agility in lighter winds.
Yes, do take all this with more than a grain of salt. I live to be heckled. Heckle away!
In doing some of my research, I came across someone selling a 450 who told me that it smoked H16s. I find that hard to believe while doing the math; however, I'm no expert. I don't know how much good lines will make up for LOA and sailing area. I have also had some tell me that with my weight, the 460 would be perfect, while others tell me that I am way too heavy for it (155 solo/220 with crew). I'm still leaning towards a 500 since I am holding out on my wife crewing/helming when the kids get older (our combined weight would be around 260-270).
Yes the 450 is nearly as fast as the H16 and will easily carry as much weight as a Hobie wave. <img src=
alt=
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There seem to be three distinct levels of boats (can I say that among all the experts around and not get pelted?)
First, the recreational, big-weight carrying capacity. Second, the moderate performance boats with more power and less load capacity. Third, all the high performance boats. Some overlap.
Lots of factors to compare but for moderate to heavy wind conditions, more comfort on the moderate performance boats in those winds -- especially for solo sailing. Plus better agility in lighter winds.
Yes, do take all this with more than a grain of salt. I live to be heckled. Heckle away!
There are basically two types with many different materials depending mainly on purpose and cost. For example the wave is molded plastic while the 450 is fibre glass and the 500 is fiber glass with foam core.<img src=
alt=
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What does the foam core do for the 500? How well does it hold up?
I strongly prefer the 500 over the 450 (and I guess the 460 too)
At my club we have both 5.0/500's and I think two 4.5's (predessor to 450)
Some advertise the 450 and 460 weights at 280 lbs 127 kg but NacraEurope doesn't nor the measurement based rating system like Texel and ISAF, here the boat is quoted as 142 kg (313lbs) and thus only 17 lbs lighter then the 500 at 150 kg.
It is also the 500 that is on a par with the performance of a H16 and not the 450 (or 460) Which is almost 10% slower. Considering that the difference between the fastest and slowest beach cat is about 40% that means that 10% is significant.
The most striking difference between the 500 and 460 is the fact that the 500 mast has diamond wires on the mast and the H16 and 460 don't. This makes the 500 more tunable, but there is a thing to be said about the ease of carrying and storing a straight mast tube without any spreaders or diamond wires.
Personally I strongly prefer the 500 if you are looking for some performance or ever want to participate in a regatta of catamaran race. With the 500 you'll be in the pact with much nmore common boats like the Hobie 16. On the 460 you'll be very much in the rear part of the fleet unless you have really good sailing skills.
As the 500 is much better known and much more sold I think the 500 is a better investment,it should be hard to ever sell that boat. My personal opinion is that the 460 is somewhere between the Hobie wave and getaway and the nacra 500 and therefor a bit of neither. If you are looking for a pure recreational boat with ease of maintainance that rotomoulded (plastic) is very attractive (Hobie wave). If you are looking for some more performance and to blast around with your (male) friends after you have gotten the hang of it then the 500 is your ticket.
Personally I would go for the 500 (or the original 5.0). there is just more growth potential there and you'll get used to the cat speed pretty quickly. At first the smaller boats may feel perfect, but when you really get into it you'll progress very quickly and I think the 500 has significantly more meat to it without being too complicated or much more heavy.
Wouter
Do you sail Nacra 5.2? I doubt it would be too different than the 500, other than the ability to play with the daggerboards against the eventual lack of weight (I have no idea how significant that is, I only sailed the 5.0 so far).
I weight about 185 lbs and I've sailed solo in pretty choppy conditions on the 5.0, with no problems. I don't think you should be too concerned about not having enough weight unless you will be mostly sailing in strong winds, I read here that the 5.0 is rather underpowered and that the 500 is very similar to the 5.0 in general. Not having much experience with other cats, I tend to agree, it's not like it will fly a hull for nothting. Personally I would hate to go to a smaller boat, I sailed H14s a couple times and didn´t find it really exciting. If crew weight (and budget) was not a concern, I would certainly be tempted to go to a bigger one, just get some beachwheels to take it off the water durning lunch, the rest shoulnd't be too different I think.
Well, maybe mast stepping might be an issue, but there are workaraounds, right? (I mean for going bigger than 500, it shouldn't be an issue for 500 or less)