New Hull materials are coming

There seems to be a demand for discussing and comparing the latest and greatest in boat technology. Maybe there is a need for a NEW catagory on the forum ??? There the fat-wallet crowd could blather to their heart's content! Us Hobie-16 folks could lurk there, and stay up to date; (or even post a comment at our own risk).

Bah, deep wallets my ....

This has gone far enough. I am into the technical side of this sport, but I read "non hi-tech" (are there anything low-tech about any cat's operation?) threads as well. There is always something to learn.

Of course the latest and hottest are discussed, that's just natural and there is nothing wrong with that.
If there is anything you want to discuss, make a new thread. Both the Dart 18 and the H-16 are good topics. E.g. I can see on pictures that you are sailing with just one rudder again in certain conditions. Great topic, discussed a lot earlier, but still not finished, obviously.

Jeff, I find your post derogatory with a certain touch of arrogance. Far more so than the unfortunate choice of words posted earlier.

As for my deep wallets. I would like to quote some lines from the french watchman in Monty Python and the Holy Grail for you, but that would be insulting. Suffice to say that if we want anything new on our Tornado, we build it ourself becouse everything are just to expensive.

Instead of calling for ostracism here on the open forum, why dont you consider the amount of posts on the Hobie 16 forum and the implications.

There are room for everybody on the open forum, so go ahead and use it. But please save the whining.

No deep pockets here either. I save every coin I can find in order to make small upgrades to my sailing side of life. Sailing is a crime of opportunity when you are married, 4 kids, blue collar job, future uncertain, hurricanes on the horizon. It is almost like I am stealing from my family to buy a new jib.
I have slowly graduated from a H-18 to H-21 to H-20 and to ARC21 and I must say each boat gave me more pleasure than the previous.
I am still impressed by F-18.

Hi-Tech or not... we all get pleasure in sailing our cats.

I've been sailing a HC16 for about 15 years, last year I sailed on a Nacra I17 as well as with a MattiaSport Esse Sport. Today I'm Sailing a MattiaSport 18HT...

We need to adjust our boats to our sailing conditions. You do not need the same type of windsurf if you are riding Hawai or Tarifa sport than Geneva, Rimini or what else.

F18 are great boats in Northern see, Atlantic (at least for Europe) and any other places with wheater conditions can be strong. On the other hands, we do not all leaves close to that type of places and need to have fun at home too...

We have room enough to enlarge CatSailing... and bring many other people to our sport. Too many people think that sailing (what ever type of boat) is for exclusively for rich people... so a lot of homework to do.

Regards,
Jr

Just one comment about Mystere catamaran.

Please note that Mystere Catamaran are Canadian Cats... while 2Win cats are french Catamaran.

A little of "French history" (if I'm mistaken, please let me know).

- Mystere boats are produced in Canada
- The former French Mystere Catamaran became "Multypass" by the join-venture of French Mystere dealer and Boutemy Dinghy.
- Since this year, Multypass changed name to 2Win.

Mystere is still a cat builder but has nothing to do with 2win on the development of the new hull material. If I'm wrong let me know.

Regards,
Jr

Have to agree with Rolf, the "high-tech snobbery" associated with deep wallets is a myth - in many cases you can build your own boat in far superior technology for a much lower cost, provided that your class rules allow you to, which is why I chose the class I sail. My other choice would be to pay much more for a factory-built class which doesn`t allow you to buy fittings elsewhere other than the factory. I would have no issue with that provided the factory price for fittings was reasonable. As things stand you pay over-inflated factory prices for equipment that is inferior to that which you could buy at any boat shop. That`s when I draw the line and choose a class that allows flexibility as to who I buy my sails, blocks and fittings from. (and even hulls, boards, rudders, beams and mast in my case.)
Oh yes, and my high-tech boat is made of wood, as are my daggerboards. My rudders are factory-made, but from the factory of my choice .
My sails (main, jib, spinnaker AND trampoline) cost less than a set of dacron main and jib for the most popular factory boat.
One day you too may see the light.

Jeff,

You'd be a lot 'lighter' and happier if you took that chip off your shoulder!

There's no "fat wallet brigade" here - just enthusiasts for this sport of ours that want to discuss the implications and pros/cons of new technology or changes in the way our sport is organised. I've seen no evidence of contributors to this forum having an excess of the folding stuff.

I also fail to understand why H16 sailors seem to have this expectation that they are going to be 'dissed'. Surely It's all a frame of mind?

Gareth, Thanks for posting the latest, "high-tech" information. As an owner of 1970's design boats I find these forums and comments invaluable. I enjoy dreaming of a boat I may own in the future. That is...if you all will allow me to do so?

Jeff, Geez man, lighten up! If you dont like it, change the channel on your TV.

Maybe I'm the only one to notice, but it seems that this petty stuff always starts around this time of year.

My guess is frozen in sailors.

Rolf,

A little off topic, but the french watchman you speak of is a classic. At our house we quote almost every word from the movie. All I have to say is "spot on".

My wife's favorite "she turned me into a Newt!"

Peace,
Clayton

... And on the count of three, thou shalt lobbist thy holy handgrenade at thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it....

the interesting thing is .... It seems to take as much money to keep at the pointy end of a SMOD fleet as it does a open or boxed rules fleet..

SMOD hulls get old and soft and slow.. Thus every few years the gun skippers seem to have new hulls whether it is a smod class or a formula... I recall in lazers the best skippers always seem to purchase a hull from on particular factory and one colour as it was stiffer and lighter...

As for high tech... Apart from this new material.. what new materials have been used in boat hulls in the last 30 years?
Kevlar? nope.. was being used in skiffs in the 80s.. Carbon nope ditto... epoxy? 70s.. nomex 80s..

Stewart

Ouch! Fat wallets and high tech! I suppose you don't check out the Volvo Extreme 40 cats because they're too high tech and fat wallet. I don't know about you, but as a sailor I love knowing about the tech stuff, expensive or not, whether I'll buy it or not. Because some day it will used and affordable, and you might just learn a trick or two to apply on your current ride. In the mean time I still enjoy sailing boats made of good old fiberglass and foam and aluminum. They have just morphed from a H-14 to H-18 to H-20 to N6.0, all used with no fat wallet investment. Even the "high tech" spinnaker I put on the 18 was almost all used gear, certainly no fat wallet there. There was a day when all that was high tech, and so were H-16s. Good thing you weren't sailing then, you'd be upset we weren't all talking about plywood hard deck boats (now the Shark and Cougar guys will be mad).

The point is to go sailing! Sail what gives you joy! And don't get pissed that there are options and equipment out there that are different from what you like, choose, or could afford! Look at it, talk about it, enjoy its existence! Then go sail what you like and be happy!

This discussion reminds me of the "Calvin and Hobbs" comic where Calvin and Hobbs are arguing over the Club Minutes. I tried finding it on the internet but couldn't. It would have been sooooooo.... appropriate.