On this forum where are the women and crews?

I'm going to keep answering this post to keep it at least above gelcoat paste, because I think it is a much more important issue in the overall picture of catamaran sailing/racing.

Mary,

Here is a pic of my first mate (wife) of Surfergirl. I agree with your post.

Mike

Hi Mary -

My resume is simple - 15 years as crew on all kinds of cats. I post stuff all the time - I don't think there's anyone out there who says to themselves, "Y'know? I just don't hear enough from John Williams..."

True - I bought a boat this year, but I'm still crewing about half the time locally, and all the time at national-level events.

J

Okay, I should have said, "except for John Williams." And, actually I was thinking that at the time I put up the post.

Mary;

My wife is my crew. She views sailing as my passion although she loves to sail recreationally. I would suggest that many of us are in the same situation in that our wives like to go sailing but the boats are 'our deal'. Before the kids and before the tenure-track professor position, she was far more interested in sailing. Don't get me wrong, she loves to sail but her passion is the kids and her profession. Sailing to her is something you do on weekends for fun.

And I agree with you that this post is way more important than my gelcoat post. For if my wife is not interested in sailing, than I will have to find another crew and I like to sail with my family. But then again, the bottoms of my hulls really are scratched up!

bob klein

Heres my girlfriend, doing the work that you specifically bring crew along to do 😛

that when I do skipper, I prefer to sail with my beautiful wife. In the pic attached, we're on our 4.3 with John and Agata MacDonald (another husband/wife team) pinned below us after a start during the White or Wheat Regatta this year.

John

ps - To be fair, the MacDonalds didn't stay pinned - they have a bit more water line and sail area than we do.

nm

Hi Mary,

The answer to your question is obvious - the women are all in the pictures that the men are posting in response to your message ;->

I see women sailing on the lakes, I just don't see them here. I have no idea why, but I also don't see women posting as much as men on other mailing lists. I'm involved in various mailing lists on subjects for which there are also conferences, and in general, the gender balance at the conference is much better than the gender balance reflected in the mailing list.

After reading your post, I decided to look at the mailing lists I administer to see if the gender balance is better among readers of the list than among posters. Sigh. It doesn't seem to be the case.

I know that my wife is interested in sailing, but not at all interested in reading about sailing or thinking abstractly about sailing. My wife has two master's degrees and is extremely intelligent, and writes well. She simply isn't interested in mailing lists. I think they are too anonymous and impersonal for her. We do have a private mailing list in our church, and that is the one mailing list she likes to participate on.

I suspect this may be different for lists about health, mutual support, etc. But I suspect that at least some women find technical mailing lists impersonal and uninteresting. This may well be an overgeneralization or wrong, but it's the first hypothesis that comes to mind.

Jonathan

We haven't heard from Tami on this forum in a long time. I am very lonely here.

Jonathan,
I think you are absolutely right. Most women who crew are not interested in paint and gelcoat and sail plans and rigging intricacies and racing tactics. But maybe they would be interested in a forum for women only where they can ask questions and get answers about crewing, sailing gear, camping, bringing the kids to the regattas, participating on race committee, what to pack for the weekend, camping vs. staying in motels, how to be a part of their spouse's interest in sailing even if they do not want to participate themselves, how to convince their husband to get a boat that they want to crew on instead of the boat the husband wants. And also a place to commiserate with other sailing wives about having to put up with "the other woman," (the sailboat) and how their spouses do not care about getting involved in their wives' activities so why should we care about supporting the men in theirs, etc., etc.

But, on the other hand, there are women skippers and crews who are VERY involved in racing and very competitive, so why are they not posting on this open forum? Where are my sister and Susan Korzeniewski and Cyndi Bohannon and Kathy Kulkoski and Kathy Clark, and many, many others?

If any women are reading this, it would be nice to hear from them as to why they do not post anything. This is not supposed to be a private men's club here. My guess is that women are too busy to have time to be bothered with reading and posting on forums. So is it that the men have a lot more spare time than women or that their priorities for using their spare time are totally different?

Mary,

I'm embarrased by the fact that, until you brought the topic up, I had never really considered the fact that this forum is mostly male. (The same is true for other situations where one finds oneself in the majority.)

I only regularly participate in one other forum (a sea kayaking group), yet the subject matter tends to be similar - gear talk. Guys love to talk about how big their stick is. (I had one woman ask me once if sailboats were measered by the height of the mast.) It seems that the most popular (endless) discussions in this forum are about which boat is better, faster, lighter, etc. The topic matter just doesn't fit with what the women I know are looking for in a conversation.

I run an adventure travel business, and one of the statistics that I'm very familiar with is that nearly 70 percent of our business comes from women. Feedback from the "women only" trips is that there are many who don't feel comfortable jumping into a male dominated group (particularly if the discussions are like those often found on the "old forum").

While guiding trips, I spend a lot of time in the outdoors with groups of folks from all over the country. The guys seem to be more interested in the boats, constantly asking me about my kayak and the various bells and whistles hanging from my PFD. (Don't get me wrong, I'm a gearhead myself, but I just don't talk about it with my wife.) Women, on the other hand, usually ask about my kids, how I like living on Lake Champlain, or what kind of bird is soaring overhead. I like talking about that, too.

Unfortunately, I don't have any suggestions for how to bring women to this forum, except to say that gear talk and the kind of aggressive male posturing that often typified the old forum won't bring them in. While my wife and favorite sailing partner, Michele, is always game for adventure and a good challenge, she never accomanies me to the resin isle at West Marine and will unlikely be found posting on the catsailor forum.

Cheers,

Hi Mary;
Speaking strictly from my particular situation....
I have the luxury of having a "home-based" business, which lends itself to having time to participate on your forum. I am "fairly new" (going on 9 years now) to catsailing and am excited about sailing, talking about sailing and listening to what other sailors have to say about sailing.

On the other side of the coin...my wife is a professional that probably would not list participation on the forum very high up on her list. And, it may be because (as you have stated), that the majority of posters are male. Now, she MAY if there was a forum for the women. Also, I believe that unless someone experiences the "forum", it is thought of as a "chat room".
My wife has raced on monohulls and cats all her life. When we met (approximately 10 years ago) she was seriously involved with racing. She still LOVES sailing (we seldom miss a weekend..year round), but has lost the hunger to race.
I hate to admit it, but my most memorable sailing has been when we are doubled-trapped out in the Gulf....with no specific place to go!! My two cents.
Dave

Mary-

Here's a pic of my female spin crew in training...most reliable crew I've had since 1966...

thommerrill
F25c 009 Charisma
ARC22 2234 Widowmaker [named ny my God-daughter]
FMS SC20 57

[color] Sorry, I had to take the picture out because it was so large is made the entire thread impossible to read. To put graphics in the body, they need to be small enough to fit. Or, you can use the attachment feature.
Rick, Forum Admin.

You know this topic reminds me of a post not too long ago from a man who was asking advice on cold weather sailing gear. This is what he said:

It's gonna start getting colder, and my wife and I are considering various kinds of formal attire (wet suits, dry suits, birthday suits, etc. ) to take us through the cold season. So far we've made do with swimming suits (and informal T-shirts).

Will a wet suit or a dry suit persuade my wife that it's still romantic and fun to sail through the cold weather, or should I plan on giving up as it gets colder? What kind of wet suit or dry suit should we consider? Is the money for the fancy things really justified, or are there cheaper options?

Jonathan

There were 16 replies; 15 from men, one from a woman – me.

Why did I reply? Because in my opinion, I felt most of the responses were not suited for a woman sailing in cold weather. And it did kinda wig me out that so many men were willing to give their opinions on what cold weather gear a woman should wear.

Truth is, not many posts on this forum pique’ my interest. Gel Coat, mast rake, which boat sails best with whatever crew weight, blah blah blah. I mean I care, but I just can’t sit here and write about it, discuss it and debate it.
Not to mention, I don’t know all that much on those particular subjects anyways.

Tracie

Hi Tracie,

Your response to that email was extremely helpful, and I was glad when you responded to it.

But this makes me think. This particular post might be something that would interest some women - trying to figure out how to make sailing stay romantic and fun for both partners as the season gets colder. It involves romance, relationships, and staying warm - all things that interest most women ;->

But even on a topic like this, it takes a lot of guts for a woman to step in and politely inform 15 men that we were a bit clueless in our guesses about women's needs in cold weather gear. I think I'll open a separate forum where women can advise me on how to stoke up the romance in my marriage via clever approaches to sailing. We'll make it a closed forum so only women can respond. And I'll share regular gossip about how our relationship is developing when I try out your advice ;->

OK, I'm in a silly mood. It's Friday night, after all....

Jonathan

Hey, Tracie,

I gotta tell you that I was jumpin' when I saw your post about what keeps women warm when the heat disappears on the water because (this may lower my testerone for while) I needed to read your ideas not only for my wife but for myself!

I'm 5'8" and weigh 145. I'm thinner than most guys my age (53) and I grew up without air conditioning on the Gulf Coast. I'm not afraid to admit that I GET COLD a lot quicker than my fellow boat meat here on the forum.

My wife is a such a sport and a tomboy that she will always tell me she's OK when I know she may be too a little chilly. Nothin' worse than being cold and wet but she toughs it out more time than I think she admits. Thanks for your advice. I printed it out and left it on the desk for wife/beach wench Mary to read.

My wife is out there with me but she's not really into sailing. She IS into enjoying the scenery and a beautiful day from a sailboat.

I don't do too many regattas but when I do I pack a kayak on the trailer for Mary because she doesn't like to be out on the course all day. If there's a local museum she checks it out. She'll drive around the town and the area (she avoids malls like the plague because she' not a mall queen) while I'm on the water but regattas can be terribly boring for a wife that doesn't experience the thrill of the boat.

I checked out a site for the cat sailors around Houston-Galveston and noticed the wives and girlfriends had made a date to get together for a few drinks. Their posts made them sound like a lively bunch but I pity the poor guy that would spot them in a bar and mistake them for single girls. Apparently, that had happened before and after a few beers one of the girls practically beat the motorcyclist senseless (with her beer mug, I guess.) So, I know some of the girls get together and do things on their own that aren't sailing centered.

If any girls are reading this I think you should know that we know-it-all males on this forum have a motto (I think I can say this for everyone): There Are No Dumb Questions.

Just three more things and I'll shut up:

1. From reading the posts here I know the postress "Windbtch" knows a lot more than I do.
2. I don't check the sex of the information when I need a question answered.
3. Some posts with a femme slant would be refreshing to read.

Hi All, I just signed up and found out about this site by a friends post in a beachcats post.

I do crew and I am a women. I sailed on my first Cat 4 years ago (aga 34 then) and it was at the H-Mid Winters. I have sailed on a H20, H18SX, Hobie Pacific 18, HFox, Panthercaft Tornado, HWave...

Just bought the Tornado and really like the feel of it and the stability.

I myslef I am not good with the terminology with sailing and starting later in life it has taken me awhile to get used to the "terms" but I am getting there. The most important thing is that I can trim a jib well and know the feel of the boat.

Nice to meet you all,

Connie

Welcome, Connie!

Thanks for this post - it should be obvious to you by now that we're interested in hearing from women and crews, so thanks for obliging us ;->

I'm a newcomer to the sport too, I just began this summer, and most of my posts have been questions so far. I'm pretty sure that I'm not getting all the terminology right, but I just go ahead and post my questions anyway. So far, the experts have been very gracious and respectful - and helpful.

So welcome to the forum, and please keep posting!

Jonathan

Hello Connie-

I was wondering what factors helped make your decision of buying a Tornado? I sailed one for 6 years and could not find a female crew...

thom

Well Thom I got a "bug" to get a new boat. Several factors came into play.

I started on the H20 and then went to sailing many other Hobie boats and ended up on a H18SX which was was to slow for me. It heave chop the SX would really but the brakes on and depower. I loved the Getaway but it again was a bit slow and you really can't play with the downhaul.

I was looking for a H20-IMHO a great all around boat for racing and rec. but could not find a used one that I wanted. I could have purchase new, but heck why lose so much equity the first year? I also ocean sail to Catalina usually 4x + times a year (30 miles each way). I wanted something that did well downwind, was stable, bouyout (did I spell the right?) and fast. Also, having a nice big tramp area is great as we sleep on the boat on the beach.

The Tornado happened to come up on ebay and did not sell at the reserve. I negotiated after the close of auction for a great price and thats how it happened. A bit of good timing and the right price. I thought if I did not like it a could sell if for a bit more and get something it did like. I made a 72 hour turn around trip to San Antonio and dropped off the H18SX to a good friend and came back with the Tornado.

I am still looking for a 98 to 2000 H20. The Tronado is fast. Took her out to Catalina a couple of weeks ago and did not have a mast rotator or decent downhaul and could not get great sail trim and still made great time. Those items were added to the boat last week but I have not been able to sail her since, but hope to soon. She did great in 15+ knots and swells 4+. I really noticed a big difference between the Fox when in heavy chop. The Tornado stayed very stable when you would hit a wave off center, the Fox did well also but the crossbars would sway a bit on waves. The Tornado and H20 are also much drier and less nosiy then the Fox in oceans swells, although the wave prercing hulls of the Fox cut the wave well.

All for now,

Connie

Connie

Connie,

Is there a way to look specifically for boats that didn't sell on ebay? Sounds like a great way to pick up bargains!

Jonathan

It's actually against the rules of Ebay to use Ebay to contact a seller after an auction to negotiate a price outside of Ebay.....by the book anyway. It's a great technique though!

Hey Connie-

When I sold my T in 1979 it was to a woman who bought it for herself. As far as I know she sailed it for a few years. My T sailed very well with about 315lbs crew weight. What range crew weight do you sail? Also who made your boat?
I noticed that you sailed a Panther Craft which I believe was Reg White's boat for several years.

Thom

I don't do much racing, but when I do I crew. At 145lbs I'm on the lighter end of the scale, it seems.

However, most of the time I spend sailing, I'm soloing an 18' boat.

I read this forum all the time. I perfer to be known as just a sailor, not singled out as a woman sailor (I skipper and crew). I do tend to read the old forum more often, and regularly get disgusted with how childish some of the postings are. Occasionaly I find a great link, or really interesting information. It's kind of like a treasure hunt. I am very much into all the technical developments, and tunning techniques, but there seems to be more than enough reponse to those postings. Many of the postings about women end up in the gutter, so I don't bother responding. Maybe other women feel the same.

I think "HeadItUp" says it best in her post
http://catsailor.com/forums/showthr... amp;Main=12525&Search=true#Post13015

Here is what I believe: The internet is predominntly male. Catsailors who want to talk about cat sailing on a forum are mostly male. Women are less assertive when using the internet, for very good reasons; they usually get harrased in some form eventually.

GARY

Gary,
I posted my response to HeadItUp on the other thread, "New thread about women in the sport." Still can't get the right margin to come in on this one, and, being a woman, it drives me crazy. So I am going to post my response to your post on the other thread, too. Rick says there is no way of combining the two threads. Sorry.