That formula comes right out of the US Sailing Race Management Manual. It applies to all boats, not just catamarans.
The problem with a line that long is people tend to bunch up at the ends - especially if you're using an
I
flag as the prep. People in the middle of the line that are OCS are
more
penalized by having to sail to one of the ends in order to start properly - as opposed to someone at the end who could just spin around the pin. That's why more and more PROs are using the
Z
flag (20% penalty)instead. It penalizes everyone who is OCS equally - and the penalty sticks, even if there's a general recall, making you think real hard about being aggressive on the re-start.
Dave... FIRST its a suggestion. Serious racers with big fleets use this system and swear buy it... not just prefer it... SWEAR BY IT... A colleague got me to look at it and I was impressed... take a look at the video.
Second, its about FAIR STARTS for the fleet.... it's not about hand to hand combat on a
too short line
...
Third its always about safety... unless you think the entire fleet is expert at boat handling... (You have no worries about the line for the f18's... boat handling by the fleet.. Ihave no clue.
Fourth... change is good... change adds spice to your life...the heartburn you feel.... its all in your mind (grin)
Finally..... all 50 boats (F18 or Hobie 16's) will have to be passed ...no worries... the joy of a big fleet will not be missed!... Now, That OCS you swallow because at 300 meters away... you are not going to hear your number.... will be 51 points...
Just making a point!
I did not take Mark's question as a
we need to change
moment, but as a can we think and discuss the options and why we choose them proposition.
It is a good question to ponder. Will we change our way of doing business, probably not. After successfully discussing this notion there are plenty of other questions that may be brought forth with the proof that we can get through a simple tête-à-tête like this. If we can have a simple discussion as Rabbit Starts, which I do not believe will change any time soon, it may encourage some of the tougher queries in the future.
Think, Encourage, Provoke,
Dan DeLave
Mark I know it's just a suggestion, and my reply to the rabbit start is that it takes away a part of the game that I enjoy. I'm sure some
serious racers
have a similar opinion.
The whole safety thing is a red herring and you know it.
Heck almost all the regatta's I go to now don't even attempt to call out numbers for OCS, and that's small fleet starts. You either know where you are or you don't, it aint rocket science.
Point taken, just don't agree with it... gawd it's good to finally be back to normal. Agreeing with you was getting freaking old!
IMO, the only time a rabbit start should be used is when even the
black flag
won't allow a start to get off. Other than that it's a start for sissies.
I love it.
I mean, I can see a rabbit start if you're out sailing with a bunch of friends, with no race committee, on a fun beer-drinking weekend and you're going to race up around 3-tree island (which now only has two trees on it) and back. Like Dave, however, I feel like the strategy at the start on a static line is a big part of the game...and one I've been sucking at lately.
This is the issue!
If starts are a big part of the game... We should run events like college dinghy regattas with 20 minute races... and then restart (yeah)!.
We should schedule regattas with 20 races... not 7 or 10.
We should set short lines so that fighting for and holding your place is at a premium in this game.
30 years ago...a regatta was three races... each about 2 to 2.5 hours longs.... winning was based on 2 plus hours of a race to follow and not the 2 minutes before and after a start .... Sailboat racing was about about sailing... not starting.
Racing evolved to shorten the race because, for the most part the finish positions, were set after 45 minutes of sailing. The negative effect was to put more of a premium on starting and the first beat.... Then we started adding all of the starting penalties, Black flag, Around the ends, etc etc.
Then we started with protests of the race committee for some error on their part. Hell, the A cat Worlds in FL heard a protest on the RC from Booth who was called OCS which reversed the RC and affected the final results. Races are settled in the Protest Room over STARTING ISSUES... NOT on the race course.
The 505's are running 90 minute races with 120 boats and they have a score sheet with NO OCS's and no drama at the starting line or the protest room. They are running a sailboat race... not a starting race. The winners are determined by boat speed, handling and sailing shifts and pressure. The Protest Committee does not deal with starting issues. At the local level... they keep the rabbit starts when they can because it's practice for their Worlds...
We should consider the rabbit start for large fleets because it promotes fair sailing over fair starting.
I mean, I can see a rabbit start if you're out sailing with a bunch of friends, with no race committee, on a fun beer-drinking weekend and you're going to race up around 3-tree island (which now only has two trees on it) and back. Like Dave, however, I feel like the strategy at the start on a static line is a big part of the game...and one I've been sucking at lately.
Jake,
You cannot be OCS on a gate start in the same way as the gate boat opens the line.
The start tactics are different .
Instead of choosing a place on a STATIC line; you choose a place on a line you do not quite know were it is going to be
Instead of holding a stationary position on static line; you fight for a place in the area you want to be to start where you judge the line to be.
Instead if choosing where on the line to start based on wind pattern and bends you also have to consider the speed of the gate boat and if the gate boat is on a header or lift.
Would I want to be the gate boat? Nope…….
what if the rabbit boat was a bad apple - he could have a
header
right toward his competition.
Maybe a good solution for a *downwind* start... I don't see why it wouldn't work. Rabbit starts under spi on port and everyone duck him on starboard, also with the spi up. Could be spectacular <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />
header
right toward his competition.
then they get out of the way; remember the rabbit has rights...
header
right toward his competition.
then they get out of the way; remember the rabbit has rights...
So if he takes it to the extreme of hunting someone? Protestable?
header
right toward his competition.
then they get out of the way; remember the rabbit has rights...
So if he takes it to the extreme of hunting someone? Protestable?
The Rabbit HAS to stay on a Port tack beat;
This document gives a good outline of how gate starts work: RYA gate start guide lines
Note point 7; The pathfinder shall maintain her course until released by the race officer.
See bottom of page 3 re problems with gate starts; Rule 2 / 69 on the path finder if they fail to behave!
There is a rule-of-thumb at the end of the document for calculating gate times; but the upwind speeds are way out for cats!!!!
This link is to a sailors eye view of a rabbit start. The start is at 1:04 in to the video.
Oops,I fixed the link.
One too many http in the address.
Cool. What a rush!!!
They must use video to capture the finish standings?
Nice boats. Any idea why the use a spin set-up rather than rig like ours?
Pete, those were 505's, they use a symetrical spinnaker (and pinhead main) because....they never updated their class rules to the new technology? Very fast boats back in their day, the 49'r has overtaken them in speed but they are still quite popular.
It is harder to run their setup, so maybe they like the challenge, ie. only the really good teams can handle it. They have a single trap, the crew is really busy with the spinnaker work. I had one a long time ago, 1978-1980 or so, loved it, but my girlfriend (crew) hated it. I finally sold it for a Flying Scot, which she loved, but it was sooo slow...at least there was room for a cooler full of beer in the Scot!