Racing Rules: "Barging"

I missed the

backing a sail

part and thought that the rules had been modified to take away the opportunity to back down on the starting line. With a decent breeze, I can move backwards at a pretty good sustainable speed without physically backing a sail. While the timing and handling would be tricky (but could be learned), is this to say that I could back down on the start line right by the committee boat (without backing a sail) and expect everyone to have to avoid me?

You might want to experiment with other tying attachments that move less, such as a towing bridle; or stiffening up the line(s) with flexible pipe; or even hanging the buoy from a pole. With Optis, you could just tie hippity-hops to the signal boat hull -- after all, how much separation do they really need?

To the best of my knowledge, there is no single starting tactic that always wins. For every attack, there is some defense. If, for example, you were moving straight backwards next to the committee boat, and I were right behind you, I could (assuming I had the boathandling skills) slip sideways enough to keep clear of you (provided other boats weren't blocking that move), but not enough to give you room to turn down to close-hauled for the starting signal. In other words, you'd have no gap to leeward. Then I'd be able to accelerate first and you'd be left in my dirty air.

Pretty much whatever the starting habits of the fleet, the crew that maneuvers their boat the best, and times their attack the best, will win the start -- and that's exactly how it should be.

Regards,
Eric

While not

barging

per say, this video shows a boat taking a transit on the layline to the committee boat,

closing the door

well behind the line, and forcing a windward boat to peel off at the start.

I hope that helps,
Eric

Aaaaahhhhh everything is right with the world again. Feeling much better now.

Starting is a skill and should always be rewarded.

I'm only a bush sailor so good luck backing up on me I would just sit there and not let the other boat back up over the start line then piss myself laughing as I did my turn after the start while the backup genius goes around the end buoy to start again

Are the luxury of sailing a 400lb boat called Ram Raider.

Contact is one thing... I've seen boats practically make love to the barging buoy.

Sort of like being a

little

pregnant.

Maybe not using such a long line on the barging buoy would keep it from such wild swings? Or attach the buoy to something flexible, like a fiberglass batten, boathook, or antenna attached horizontally from the stern quarter of the start boat?

While the timing and handling would be tricky (but could be learned), is this to say that I could back down on the start line right by the committee boat (without backing a sail) and expect everyone to have to avoid me?

This should fix that whole backing down the start line (and the dip start)

To dipping and backing, I haven't read the rules in some time but I thought you could not be on the course side of the starting line with one minute to go in the starting sequence.

There are no easy solutions to the barging buoy. I often don't use one unless the boat owner requests it (which is pretty often). The currents here are vicious, placing the boat in weird directions at times (think 90 degrees to the wind, or stern upwind). Sometimes the current affects the boat differently than the buoy.

As for the Z flag, my experience is that no one knows what it means, so everyone ignores it. YMMV...

Mike

It's only ignored until they check their scores at the end of the day. If the competitors won't take the time to understand how the game is played then they have to learn the rules the hard way. Far better to learn the lesson at a weekend regatta rather than a week long championship. Because the Z flag is initially ignored is not a reason to keep it rolled up on the deck in my opinion.

back to the barging buoy... can you use a fishing pole tied off the stern of the startng boat, with maybe a crab trap float hanging down (but off the water a bit)? Or a fishing weight with a streamer for visibility?

That would probably keep the buoy fixed behind the boat, and wouldn't cause too much damage if someone bumped/scraped it?

I Flag - The Round-an-End Rule 30.1 will be in effect. If a boat is over the line during the minute before the start then they must sail to the pre-start side of the line around either end before starting.

Z Flag - The 20% Penalty Rule 30.2 will be in effect. If a boat is in the triangle formed by the ends of the line and the first mark during the minute before the start it will receive a 20% scoring penalty. (20% of the number entered or as dictated by the sailing instructions)

Black Flag - The Black Flag Rule 30.3 will be in effect. If boat is in the triangle formed by the ends of the line and the first mark during the minute before its start it will be disqualified

Unless one of those flags are up there is no one minute rule active. Five second google search by the way. If you don't have a rule book... same search for the flags gives you a link to the rule book.

Way over thinking this. If you want the boat you better have the boat handling skills that come with getting the boat. The barging buoy is touchable without penalty and if you mount the buoy in the process then maybe your skillset isn't ready for a boat end start. You know that is exactly what your fellow competitors that witness your brilliance are thinking.

Heeeyyyy, there was a lot of current in Blackwater Sound that year.

It was in reply to the earlier comment about the barging buoy moving all over the place behind the committee boat during an Opti regatta.

But yeah, I've humped a barging buoy or two in my time. The snickering from the leeward boats is still seared into my memory...

If all they did was snicker, you got off way too easy! I'm not talking about protests, either...

Ding, by default RRS, you can't touch the barging buoy without penalty since the definition of mark was changed a few years ago. The SIs have to be carefully written to make that the case.

I agree with your comment about over thinking the gadget-fix approach.

Mike

This was about 5 or so years ago - and the SI's made the barging buoy neither obstacle nor mark nor extension of the committee boat...you could make sweet love to it for all the rules cared....but, straddling it (and the rode) wasn't a smart strategy for speed.

Right... that's what I was saying earlier in the thread. Most of us remember the old rule, and many think it still applies. Worse, lots of RCs recycle SIs and have language that would not hold up in the room.

It is amusing to watch someone get hung up on a barging buoy to the point that they threaten to stab it. Actually, that's much more amusing if you're racing than if it's your RC boat...

Mike

Or your buoy.

Dude, it was probably you (Jake) that shouted I should play some Barry White music while we were tangled up in the barging buoy (talk about some sweet love)... Sounded kind of like a fat guy fighting with a balloon

I don't know if I heard the end of it from my crew that Ding's scared of.

Worse, they used that nasty yellow ski-rope that floats so it was all hung up in the rudder casting.

my darkest fear is that someone, somewhere, may have a picture of that...

It twas. I was sailing with the fabulous squirrel. And, there is a picture...somewhere.

If you had any sense you would have been afraid of her too! Seriously when you guys split up how many of your friends said

Dude, sorry you guys were good together

. Oh and if they did say that they were f!@king lying! Hey I get it shagging crazy is all kinds of fun but you gotta get the f!@k out before she stabs you in the heart with a pair of scissors! I'm just glad you're still with us even if you are a trimaran sailor.

Still a great Macho Man story, every time I remember it I look at Kathy and say... baby I'm so glad you picked me!

Everyone has to try a bat-sh&t crazy date once....once. Karl the first has a few.

But, I do have an unusual tendency to turn almost anyone into bat-sh&t crazy. Is it me???

PS - and don't think of it as a trimaran. Think of it as a

Cat with a cane

for us old dudes.

I was at the Outback Cup this past weekend and looked at the Columbia Sailing Club signal barge. They have a very simple and effective barging buoy mounted on the transom. I didn't take a picture, but I'll try to describe it.

It's basically just two pieces of PVC pipe tied to the transom to form a tall isosceles triangle. A small hippity-hop is tied to the vertex. A third line (also attached to the vertex) allows the structure to be raised (for storage) or lowered so that it sticks straight out behind the barge.

Now, Lake Murray doesn't get much current, so the barge wouldn't tend to lay perpendicular to the wind, but such a fixture could be rigged to stick out from a signal boat in pretty much any direction, provided you have tie-points.

I hope that helps,
Eric