My experience with beach access is that we have lots of access in the Northeast. Ramps are plentiful and mostly free,
Places like Sail Newport for mast up storage. At $300 a season for an 18ft cat its a bargain.
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On Cape Cod they recently outlawed jet ski's at all of the national seashore waters, so now we have zero competition at all the ramps the jet skiers used to use.
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It was I who made the socialism==communism remark, as a jest.
Regarding typical redneck behaviour, I was under the impression that the other rednecks on the beach would quickly pull out their assorted military grade assault weapons and blast the offender to smithereens..
On public beaches, no motorized vessels are allowed close to the beach with engines running. Usually the no-motor zone is marked with yellow buyos, which are great to "slalom" for tack/jibe exercises (not many swimmers out there when the sailing is good).
If there are no markers, vessels approaching are required to slow down to 5 knots and stay clear of people in the water. That goes for cats as well. Most public beaches are closed off or fenced off to stop vehicles from driving on the beach. But getting a cat in is no problem. As are dinghys, windsurfers, kiteboards etc. But as most clubs have room for mast-up storage, there is usually no need to do much trailer sailing.
It is not heaven over here, but I like it (except for the lack of proper daylight during winter here at 63degrees north).
Bill,
Count your blessings! That ain't happenin' down here!
I called a lady who has a large RV park right on the Gulf (Red Coconut, Ft. Myers Beach)and asked how much it would be to rent a site for my Hobie, she said she wasn't interested in that type of business and hung up!
Rolf;
We just passed a "no retreat" law here in Florida. For decades the law required you to retreat before using deadly force, now you can just blast away (if you feel your life is in danger)! Hell, as a "domestic variety Southern red neck" I'm all for it, 'course I'll have to buy a gun first! 
Good to hear it's that way in your neck of the woods. Elsewhere around the country it's at least a mixture of both. There are beaches in California where private ownership has cut off the once free access to the beaches - it's been an ongoing fight from what I'ver read. Few people who own such property want to let others onto what they have paid to own. In my neighborhood in MD we have beaches, launch ramps, boat slips, racks for kayaks - but you have to own property in the community to use any of them - and the community guards it pretty closely. The waterfront properties don't actually own the waterfront, but you'd need to go through their yard to get there, and then you still need to be from the community (community retains riparian rights). There are a lot of such neighborhoods either guaranteeing access if you live there or cutting it off if you don't. In Galesville where my club races, there are no public launch ramps or beaches. The land around the water is privately owned (including the land we use) or controlled by marinas (with no launch ramps). In actuality, the only true public water access around the Annapolis area other than the marinas (private, not all with launch ramps) are the county and state parks that just happen to be kept operating by the "babysitting governments". In fact, our "babysitting governments" are studying ways to guarantee more access, which will probably involve some socialistic practices like buying land for public use. 
Pete:
I know, and I tought it insane that you should need this. Of course you can use deadly force if your own or others life are in danger, it's the same here. But guns are not as widespread, so people tend to end up at the wrong end of them very seldom.
If at least everybody who owned a gun knew how to use it..
I think Norway, Sweden and Finland have one of the highest guns per citizen ratios in the world, but they are mostly hunting rifles and we have very few yearly firearm murders (mostly family tragedies).
Rolf; Seriously, I do support the "no retreat" law, but this is not the place to explain as it would take too long.
Happily, gun deaths in the U.S. are comming down.
Keith:
It just gets better and better. Here in Florida the "baby sitting" government permitted an increase on homeowners insurance policies to help rebuild all those waterfront mansions that were destroyed by hurricanes.
My policy will increase about $600, $100 of which will go to the uber wealthy.
A few years back, one of the tiny, ultra wealthy towns on the Atlantic coast outlawed eating or drinking on the beach. I'm told it was very effective in keeping beach traffic down, especially for families with young children.
I would explain the rationale, but the reasoning is much too arcane for a "domestic variety Southern redneck" to comtemplate.
Just enjoy your water while you still have it!
Keith:
Marylands a bitch. I'll admit it.
In Talbot county, there are so "few" places to put in, that the ONE county-owned "free use" ramp just started charging non-county residents a $50 per launch fee to cut down on the traffic from out-of-towners launching their boats.
When it boiled down to it, what we found out is that the local fisherman were upset that others outside the county were able to trailer their fishing boats, and compete at a lower cost than the locals that have to pay county taxes and slip fees and so forth. I can't remember if they passed that rubbish, but its not like I care.... you know why?
Because I can launch at TAYC anytime I want. I not only have friends that are members, but its where I learned to sail. The first time I brought ole squalus up north, I looked for a place to launch, and even though its a "closed club" and I'm not a "member" I walked in the gates and asked to speak to a club manager. Took less than 5 minutes of simply asking if I could use the otherwise un-used beach, and I was good to go. He said that I had to be out of there by 6pm because of a party that night, to which I agreed.
Similarly, I've launched from the Ferry dock in Bellvue (simply because its closer to my house) after I asked the Ferry-skipper if he had a problem with me being there. Of course he said he didn't mind.
In Myrtle Beach SC, we rented a room at a hotel on the beach however there was a seawall between the parking lot and the beach. We went a block down the street to one of the "resorts" that had their road end in the sand and went to the front desk to ask if it was ok to put the boat in there. Of course they said no problem. As we were putting up the stick, a police officer came by and asked if we had permission to use the private property, which we had just obtained.
Four years ago, Bahia-Honda State Park. A friend (RTodd) wanted to launch his 18SX on the beach side of the state park. There was a kayak ramp from the road which would suit a beachwheeled cat just fine. He was told no, no way, impossible, and he had to buy a launch permit for the marina side and at least one nights "anchorage fee" for his SX. He was forced into ramp launching, and sailing out through a VERY narrow marina entrance/exit channel, once resulting in him hitting rocks with his bow to avoid a cigarette boat kareening through the channel.
You see, while we might not just had free reign to go about tromping where-ever we want, people are reasonable enough to discuss possibilities for fair use. Governments lack higher brain functions, and are therefore unable to adapt to different situations in a reasonable manner.
What I can't effing stand is people moping around saying that "life's not fair, I can't put my boat in within 30 minutes of my house, damnit what is the government doing to help me?" You sound like a bunch of Katrina victims that spent the night before partying it up on Bourbon street. Don't rely on the government to do jack-diddly for your cause. Unless you can demonstrate that your wishes will either get votes, or get tax dollars, then you're wasting time complaining about some pie-in-the-sky dream that will never happen.
In short, be wary of any man (or woman) that says "Let the government take it over! We'll all be happier!"
The wealthy vote and pay proportionately much more in taxes. Sucks don't it? I wonder how many floridian carpenters, electricians, masons, plumbers, building suppliers, inspectors, and land developers are going to be able to feed their families because these "uber weathy" mansions are going to be rebuilt. You might have a leg to stand on if you claimed that they were going to be rebuild regardless of the tax benefit.
Also, I'll pre-declare my hipocrasy - the two inland lakes that I sail at are both parks. One is a city park and the other is a state park. However, you can't drink alcohol at either, and at both you're subject to very stiff regulations. (For instance at the city park lake, you are not permitted to enter the water beyond your knees due to "wildlife and water quality restrictions")
Matt,
You might want to talk to Sail Newport.
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We raced F18HT's for 2 years in the Newport Regatta in a division with j22, Fireballs, Sheilds and the Star class. We had our own start and never had any issues. In fact the race committee for our division was able to get the multihulls on a few more races because we were back and ready and they weaved us into the start sequence while the leaners were out on the course.
North Barrington YC (RI) was the race committee for our division. I'm sure that if you call Sail Newport they could put you in touch with someone from North Barrington YC and you could ask your particular questions.
My memory of the races was that the course was spread out enough that we never had any issues.
Another race I did with big monohulls was a round Jamestown race and they started everyone together. Being on the line with those giants was scary (40-66ft) It was windy and they were all leaned over hard, sailing back and forth across the line during the starting sequence. Being down at water level gives you a very unique perspective on a big monohull, especially when they are bow down, leaned over. They look very fat from that angle, and you cant really see anyone, the only thing you see is the bow, the keel and the side of the hull. The people are very far away and the boats seem really big and threatening. I remember Peter Johnstone sailing up to me and saying "you might want to stay out of the way, getting run over by one of those would be a bad day to die.
I was right with you up until:
I'm not a tax guy, but in my conversations with a few "uber wealthy" folk here in my town (where you can't throw a rock an not hit one - who will then sue the pants off you and the next seven generations of your kin), it would appear that there are plenty of loopholes that can be taken advantage of.
To be fair, most of these people are EXTREMELY generous by nature, but to declare that they are getting "stiffed" by higher OVERALL taxation (not tax rates) would be a stretch...
We've lost convenient beach access because:
1 too many people want the same thing as us
2 we sat around thinking things wouldn't change
3 we expected "someone else" to take our interests to heart
4 a few bad apples spoiled it for the rest of us (and then #3)
This is a very conservative Republican area, the "leg I have to stand on" is the apparent ground swell of voter resentment. My guess is that this increase will be rolled back.
Florida is growning at a phenomenal rate. We do not need to subsidizes anyone, let alone the uber-wealthy. We have a 2.5% unemployment rate, considered full employment. The problem here is a surplus of jobs and it is increasingly serious. A "starter home" in this area is around $200,000. Waterbug is maybe 35 miles South and I would be afraid to guess what s "starter home" is in Collier County which depends on us for blue collar labor.
Locally, the aggregate demand for housing far outways the economic benefit derived from the wealthiest few. Simply put, we just don't need to cater to them, Sucks don't it!
I feel bad for the poor schlepps in Iowa, who are paying more for insurance due to losses from wildfire (CA), earthquake (CA), tornados (KA), Floods (LA, TX) and hurricanes (FL, LA, MS, TX).
If they weren't coughing up dough, our insurance would easily be 10x higher down here.
And consider yourself lucky. Median home price in my town is now $500,000 for a 2 bdr, 2 bth (no garage). Interest rate hikes will change this for the better, though...
I understand your point, it is valid. Nevertheless, if through applied political pressure I can reduce my premium and, more importantly, slow its certain rise I will do so. Not saying it's fair, only probable!
btw The last I heard Naples was pretty generous in allowing cats on the beach.
At least with the floods it's only those who pay flood insurance. Regular homeowner's insurance doesn't cover that, and if you live in a flood zone generally your only option is to use the Federal backed polices from NFIP. Ooops, there's the pesky gov't helping out again. But anyways, only the people with that kind of insurance will take an increase for the flood losses - I'll be one of them. Boat U.S. did sent me a note about my boat insurance going up due to those losses however, but they some point in that Isabel whacked the Chesapeake. One trick for homeowner's insurance if you're in a reduced act of God area is pick a company that does not insure in the augmented act of God areas. Eerie is one such company, losses in those areas don't translate into higher premiums.
On the point that this thread was about - I find it fun to mix it up with the keel boats, and really enjoyed being on the line for the Annapolis to Oxford race this past year. Pretty exciting to see the big fast PHRF boats, even more exciting to run down guys who spend more on one sail than I did for my whole boat. Avoid the wind shadows, and don't for a second think they will alter their lines even if you have the right of way. Mixing the small and big boats together is something I'm interested in seeing work even from the multi perspective - CRAC now has a "maxi-cat" class for the big boats, and so far they run the same course as the rest of us. Issues such as draft and room for a 19' wide boat in the midst of smaller ones is interesting.
Tad - going to TAYC any time you want to sail is nice for you and the folks with contacts, but doesn't help anybody who wants to join the sport and doesn't have those contacts or the scratch to join such a club in the first place. Doesn't help grow the base of sailors, and contributes to the sailing as a rich person's game notion.
Keith, the whole point of that tirade was to point out that even though some areas may seem "closed for public use", a simple act of making personal contact with the person(s) responsible for the property can get you a long way.
I didn't name-drop any of my friends' names, and I'm almost positive that they didn't remember me from 15 years ago 
Matt:
You might also try volunteering as crew, locally they always need warm bodies. Of course, building personal relationships isn't gonna hurt. It's hard to say no to a friend!
This is why I cant wait to move back to Puerto Rico. Miles and MILES of virgin beach access.
Insurance rates are much much lower.
Property tax are stuck in the early 40's
Insurance rates are much much lower.
Property tax are stuck in the early 40's
I would think so with hundreds of millions of US taxpayers dollars supporting the Commonwealth. Of course there are no taxes coming back to the US from Puerto Rico. No offense, but I think PR either should become a state and contribute or not receive the benefits that it does.
That being said, I'm sure the sailing is awesome there 
Insurance rates are much much lower.
Property tax are stuck in the early 40's
I would think so with hundreds of millions of US taxpayers dollars supporting the Commonwealth. Of course there are no taxes coming back to the US from Puerto Rico. No offense, but I think PR either should become a state and contribute or not receive the benefits that it does.
That being said, I'm sure the sailing is awesome there
Yep you are right, but with all due respect, what does your post have anything to do with the thread? Other than your last sentence? You just needed to throw that out?
What does any of this taxation and beach access have to do with this thread?
Yep, that is exactly why it is always so easy to sting them with such remarks. And of course the Right Wing politicians of the US kind that we do have overhere are not in power, except in Denmark and Italy. They are just as much on the fringe as the pure communists, the exception here being Italy again.
Wouter
I don't need to come out there, I believe you !
You want is more fun overhere as well. The government owns the dunes and flood planes as well, there is hardly any civilian building in those area's. And any town that happened to be right on the coast line for several hundreds of years has a duty to maintain public access to the beaches, FREE OF CHARGE ! That is where we all pay higher taxes for ! Others get excellent football field, I easily accessible beaches. The soccer players pays partly for my ramp and I pay partly for his pitch. On average this works out equally beneficial for all. And THAT is socialism, looking beyond one owns direct interests and understand that "common good" things can only be maintained if individual groups work together. The real great thing about is that you don't need to show party membership or a little red book to proof you are worthy of making use of the common good stuff. Best of both worlds, I call that.
Wouter
I'm happy to keep my socialist utopia out of the USA if the USA will keep their "might makes right" and "cut throat capitalism" out of the rest of the world.
Some hard times coming ahead for you, Your Katrina reconstruction program just hired two of our more prominent socialist water management guru's to analyse what went wrong and what needs to be done right.
I hear there are some interesting lectures on this katrina disaster at the watermanagement faculty that is across the street of the faculty I work for.
I'll bet maugan has either just fainted or is blowing steam from his ears, right now.
Wouter
I have forwarded this thread on to our racing guy as I am not making the final decision. Thank you for all your input it will help him. I will keep you updated with what we decide.
As far as befriending and crewing for monohullers. I do both on Wednesday nights.
Thanks for throwing in the socialism vs capitalism debate. Nice touch.
Matt
They're okay with the boat on the beach, BUT, you can't keep it overnight (unless you're a city resident and pay for a spot), and you can't park your trailer anywhere near the beach. Works great if you know someone near the beach that you can drop the trailer, but it's tough if you don't and have to hoof it a mile or so back to the beach.
Taken my old boat out a couple of times, and had a ball. Flat beaches, low surf, and nice water temps.
Matt - When Art Stevens brought the Fast and Fun program through Galesville a number of years back, his one piece of advice for dealing with the clubs and other sailing groups that may not view us favorably was to "conquer from within" - join up, infiltrate, change minds, percepions and votes. Sage advice, looks like you already have that started with your Wednesday nights and other efforts. Good luck with it all!
Also, sorry for participating in the thread hijacking...
OK OK that's it!
If it were not for the USA'S "might" most europeans wouldn't have the "right" to govern their own county. The Netherlands, along with several ungrateful countries, would be either part of Germany (twice over)or part of the Soviet block. Ask the Poles and the Slavs how well that worked out. Until countries pay for their own defence, in a significant manner, they are no more then childeren living off their parents generosity.
As far as "cut throat captilism" goes. The very standard of living that you cherish is due to US capitalism. Most new drugs are developed and paid for by the citizens of the United States. Why, because there is no fiscal incentive to develop drugs outside of the US (for the most part). Until the citizens of socialist countries start to pay for the R&D required to develop new drugs and other technologies I would keep the critisism of capitalism down.
Oh yes, "cut throat capitalism" goes beyond new product development. Ask the French, who bailed them out in the 1950's when the French Franc collapsed..The USA! When there is a disaster in ANY part of the world who is there first and contributes the most...The USA. Who is the primary supporter of the United Nations, the throne of Socialism..the USA
The funny part is the technology you will use to respond was developed, perfected, and exported to the world from the USA!
John
Er.... No, actually the computer (and the internet) were British inventions.....
Do we really need to remind you about the US innovation and US companies that brought the internet to the point that it's at today? Little US companies like Microsoft, Netscape, AOL, Intel, Cisco, EMC, IBM, and do I really need to go on?
Humm, I seem to remember that the netherlands weren't part of the first world war, so don't know exactly about "twice over"
Come to think of it were would we be without american help during the 80 year (rebellion) war with Spain. The three Dutch-English wars during the 17th century, or even the fight with the murderous HORDES from the east. From The Huns (right after birth of christ) to the Mongols somewhere around the first millenium. Not forgetting the Vandals, the Vicogoths or even the Viking invasions. As well as the various clashes of the 19th century. Come to think of it the Romain empire itself came to a end in the Dutch marshes and the German Forrests. If it were not for the invaluable contributions of the Americans at all of these times we would not be a Dutch people at all. Let alone have won the right to govern ourselfs and this land we call the Netherlands ...
Ehh, wait a minute, the americans of those time were still wearing bear skins and feathers and dancing around a bon-fire.
So listen up now. Foreign powers have invaded, conquered and lost the Netherlands due to local rebellion many times over in the history of our people. Each time the Dutch identity survived and thrived. We have both been weak at times as well as been a world spanning superpower, in addition to that we've been the financier of the American revolution itself and have sheltered the very pilgrim fathers from prosecution before they decided to sail to the new world. Haven't seen much thanks for those contributions lately.
If you think that a more permanent Nazi or Sovjet occupation would have ended our claim to these lands or killed off our identity then you are seriously mistaken. In time, we would have again fought ourselfs free and would have re-established control of our own destiny as we had done 10's of times in the past 2 millenia of Dutch history. All the while being surrounded by big powerhouses to all sides (England, Germany, France and at a time Danes/Vikings).
Thanks goes TO YOUR FATHER OR GRANDFATHER for putting in a contribution that rather soon shedded our yoke in 1945; I write contribution as I seem to remember large formations of Poles; Canadians, Brits, Free Dutch, Free French and what not else in this endeavour. But don't ever make the mistake of thinking that YOU personally can derive any credit from this. You didn't do any fighting. And don't think that your larger American family singlehandedly achieved something that wasn't coming our way in due time anyway. And your weren't defending any European liberties in Korea, Vietnam, Grenada or even Iraq (I refrain from giving you the full listing)
This world, and the nations or peoples in it, are alot older then 1776; during that time many sacrifices have been made in favour of the survival of a nation. In this light it will be wise to remember the modesty of your contributions and the travesty of your own failings.
Wouter