Safety Quiz

From the looks of that boat, water temperature would not have been a problem. I wonder what ran over it.

I think the safest thing, when sailing on open water, is to always sail on the buddy system, with another boat.

As far as what they could have had aboard to help them, I would think a VHF radio and/or a cell phone and a GPS unit.

Shame, its a proper Boomer too!

The guys did well to stay together. A phone in a waterproof zip bag would have made things easier.

I know stuff breaks or goes wrong, but if you are sailing alone you should always be confident that you can right the boat in all conditions. One of Ricks righting poles or a water bag should have been on board.

Hopefully the dicks that think it is ok to single-hand a 2-hander will take this on board too.

a drogue chute would have keep the boat from drifting so fast. Being able to right the boat from a turtle would have helped as well, but this means that the mast needed to be sealed.

The drift is fastest when the trampoline is perpendicular to the wind. So you can also slow the drift by getting up on the bow and dragging feet (and whatever else you can find to drag), to turn the bows into the wind. And sometimes the boat will even right itself when you do this. I wouldn't count on that happening, but at least the drift will be slowed considerably when the trampoline is in line with the wind instead of crossways.

Things they forgot:

VHF Radio
GPS
Cell Phone
Brains

It's idiots like that that give catamaran sailors a bad reputation.

Ditto.

Ditto to Matt's point

Do you think they even have a clue how to right the boat from a turtle?

Do you think they had a plan B.

A lot of the rec sailors on my beach have never thought about these seamanship issues much less read or talked to someone about these issues.

Good question that might save someone's life.

Never go out on a Yellow Hobie 18 in Santa Cruz. This is just like last time almost an identicle 18 did the same thing.

Have someone on the beach to know your planned arrival time. Always go out with more than 1 boat. Always carry safety gear, Any time I'm in the ocean I have a marine radio, phone, gps, flares , whistle , mirror and flashlight.
If your flares get old then buy new ones and set them off on the 4th of July.

Dude, that must have been a big shark to leave those teeth marks...

[...playing Jaws theme...]

You're going to need a bigger boat!

Smarter people!

Well, one thing they had going for them was that there were two of them. If they had a clue how to right the boat, they would have been all set (assuming the mast was sealed). People really need to practice this before they go anywhere.

As a former idiot, who tried this trick single-handed once (my third time ever on my first Hobie), and wound up out overnight on the bottom of a Hobie 16, I totally agree with Matt's list. At a minimum, the VHF, tied to you, is critical. I used to get laughs and stares when I showed up at fleet events with my VHF, until I told people this story. Amazingly, no one thinks it could happen to them, so not one other person went out and got a VHF to sail with routinely. I won't even go out without one anymore.

Anyway, as for their boat, mine got back in the same shape, and the damage was done by the Coast Guard. They didn't know how to right it, so they tried to drag it in (sideways, I presume). My guess would be that they used grappling hooks, because I've seen them up close, when they show up with a 41-footer, they have zero plans of going in the water to do anything...

Mike

Ok, boat flips and skipper gets seperated. Crew turtles boat and skipper gets back on board. It appears an hour passed and the cruise boat makes contact. We are to understand that the TheMightyHobie18 could not be brought out of the turtle and righted. There is no mention of hyperthermia so they must have been dressed for the water temp.

Either no righting system was on the boat or they just didn't know how to right it.

How much damage was done by the contact and was contact an hour after the initial flip or did they right it and flip again prior to the collision with the cruise boat?

Thread jack - So I've never managed to turtle a boat. How does one actually right from a turtle?

Hawaii state law requires either a VHF radio or EPIRB on every boat.

Which supports the previous conclusion that the missing equipment were brains. Even one brain would have been enough.

Stuff to faciliate their own resuce:

1. Sealed mast and practice righting from turtle
2. A water bag for solo righting (if the skipper had not got back to the boat

Stuff to facilitate a rescue by others:
1. VHF radio - hail on Ch 16
2. SPOT or EPIRB
3. Flares
4. Cell phone in water proof bag (I use the $20 AT&T Go phone from Walmart - my AT&T sim card works in it).

I'm a little shocked at the rude comments by some of the posters on this thread. I'm sure you have probably done some foolish things yourselves in the past. Does anyone know what safety equipment (if any) was on board this boat?

To right a boat from turtle - get it on its side and then right as normal.

To get it from turtle onto its side take the righting line, pass under one hull and over the top (as you would if righting it from on its side). Then lean on the rope off the other hull. If your mast is sealed you will get the boat back up on its side. It can be a little akward maintaining footing on the curved hull surface while leaning out far enough to make her come back up.

I have seen people trying to both lean off the rear cross bar, or off the righting line direct from the dolphin striker without going round the other hull first. Neither approach seems succesful.

To check the seal on your mast, throw it in the water and see if bubbles come out. It should float. Correct leaks with a quality sealent and recheck. If your mast leaks then it can fill with water when you turtle and you may not be able to right it - even with assistance from a power boat. At that point you may have to derig the mast and sails, wrap the lot up, place it aboard and get towed the lot back to shore with the platform still upside down. (Don't ask me how I know this).

Chris.

When you try to right from a turtle. Make sure you get on the stern of the

leward

hull. Your windage will push the boat sideways and the sails in the water will act as sea anchor - slowly lifting the boat to its side.

Hypothermia was a factor, but the crew were dressed for the occasion. No initial damage by rescue efforts, there was no collision with cruising boat. They had a righting line.

Skipper released shroud pins when boat was upside down in an attempt to get it from turtle position.

I post things like this to get us all thinking. I think it's a good exercise to ponder all of the variables in a real-life rescue scenario.

J

I'd like to see the expression on the face of the insurance adjuster who comes out to inspect the damage to the boat! <img src="<>/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin" height="15" width="15" />

Good call, Thanks

OK, I reiterate my statement that they left their brains behind. There is nothing so hard to right as a boat without its mast attached.

To get a boat on its side from turtle, do not do what Chris (flumpmaster) suggested - you'll fall and hurt yourself. Get all your crew weight on the downwind aft corner of the boat (sitting). The opposite front corner will start to lift, wind will get underneath the trampoline and it will slowly come up to the capsized position. Then right as usual.

The other thing is safety in numbers. I always felt safe sailing near Newport because there is so much boat traffic.

The righting bag is an interesting point. Most people don't take these out unless they're very light. I know I'm heavy enough and have enough practice to fully right a 16 from turtle by myself in any decent breeze (don't ask me how I know), but if I got separated from the boat, I doubt any of my crews could right the boat alone (with or without the bag) and sail back to me. Hence the VHF on my lifejacket.

I haven't tried releasing the shroud pins since my overnight experience. It didn't work then, and I haven't been brave enough to tempt fate since.

So, just for the record, these guys had me beat in several important ways:

There were two of them.
They were properly dressed.
They were sailing near commercial traffic (I was sailing outsde the bay, on a day with small craft advisories).

This is by no means a contest, just pointing out what I think Chris is saying, new sailors don't always have the benefit of experience. And, on any given day, it can all go wrong, regardless of how much preparation is involved.

EDIT: Matt's anti-turtle technique is the only one that works in large seas. Don't ask me how I know.

I don't care what anyone says, that hull damage only happened one of two ways: collision or

recovery mishap.

Mike

I don't think i understand this statement.
It IS hard to right without a mast?
if so, why?

If the mast is not leaking, it acts as a bouyancy aid and helps righting once it moves out from directly beneath the center of the boat. Once you get the sail above the water, the wind will usually further help you right the boat.

Good call Chris.

One very important thing to remember is have a float plan. Tell someone ashore, family or friends that if you do not call them by sunset or any agreed time, tell them to call the Coast Guard. The sooner we get the information the higher your probability of living is. Also be as specific as possible and give us as much details and you can.

Released both shroud pins? Stupid, no nice way to say it! What did he think the mast was gonna do if he got the boat rolled.

The boat was either hit by a larger vessel or bashed against rocks to break it up like that. I don't think the coast guard would tear it up that much. Not that they couldn't do that kind of damage I just don't think they would, at least not on purpose.

Really? In case you haven't heard this one before...

After I got home from the hospital (was checked out for hypothermia because my lips were still purple 45 minutes after being pulled off the bottom of my turtled 16), I called the Coast Guard to get the last known position of my boat so I could go after it with some friends.

Guy on the phone says

We have a vessel on scene now. Do you have any suggestions on how to right it?

Long story short, it came back with one of the hulls broken into three, separate, pieces.

Mike

Because the wind helps right the boat.
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