Code-0 sloop F16 Texel = 88. SCHRS = 0.831
Wouter
Does the Code-0 calculation include setting the (downwind) spi area to 0? This would suggest an enourmous speed potential in the
useable
wind ranges.
Anyhow, going back to the subject of this post, although the T class rules perfectly permit using a code 0, it clearly is against the principle of equality inherent to olympics. A nice read goes here: http:/
I wonder if using such a sail (if a code 0 equipped boat say gets a medal) would not produce a very negative reaction from the IOC towards the Tornado, multihulls and even sailing in general? We will be giving the perfect argument to the people against sailing in the olympics. Shure you may say the equipment we propose is strictly one design, but how strict can a set of class rules be?
useable
wind ranges.
Yes and no.
These rating systems were developped to accurately rate optimized sloop rigs, this assumes an optimal interaction between jib and mainsail. However you can't maintain the latter when adding a code-0. Sure the performance will increase some by adding the code-0 but it is really doubtful whether it will be by the amount these rating system predict.
Compare it to this. I can also add a 40 sq. mtr. spinnaker to a Tornado (old worrell 1000 style) and the rating systems will duly predict a proportional performance increase. However, we have all learned since then that a 25 sq. mtr spinnaker is faster then this monster spi even though it is significantly smaller. The same can be said for replacing the current jibs by a monster jib called a code-0.
Wouter
What you have is two different configurations both of which satisfy the rule. Who's to say that one is more legitimate than the other. How is one clearly against the principal of equality while the other is not. I'm not even sure it's a problem. Sailors pick their weapon and live with it. If conditions change the advantage shifts. It’s an added dimension (not that our sport is short on dimensions) and has made me more, not less interested.
I know this is probably a stupid question: What does that term
Code 0
mean and where did it come from?
Mary, http:/
Dan, the point is not that one configuration is more equal than other, but that the two very different configurations (essentialy two different rigs!) in the same fleet provide a big disequality in equipment. This certainly is not the initial idea about fleet racing in the olympics. Will the IOC like that
added dimension
?
White = Genoa
Blue = Full Asymmetrical
Red = Code Zero
![[Linked Image]](http://www.doylesails.com/code-alpha.gif)
Doyle's Code Zero is a hybrid spinnaker-genoa that measures with a minimum midgirth of 75% of the foot length and a leech length of not greater than 95% of the luff. The sail is uniquely shaped to sail at close apparent wind angles from 30 - 55 AWA.
Code 0 was a term that came about to identify a sail that was outside the
normal
sail wardrobe. For example big boats classify sails G or J 1,2,3,4,5 and A Kites as A 1,2,3,4. The J or G 1 being your light air jib or genoa and the A1 being your VMG kite (less cloth in the shoulders smaller girths etc).
These reaching sails that try to beat the design rules as a high reaching sail generally get slapped with a Code0 or A0 designation. For example the TP 52 had a huge genoa that they classified as a Code 0 until the class made them legal for distance racing, which at that time they became known as Masthead Genoas.
Anywhere else in the world the RED sail above would be classified as a A0.
There doesn't seem to be a clear uniform definition for these sails. In this thread we call them code-0's because that is how the monohull oriented sailing press call them. However according to Andrew Scott definitions (Doyle) we cat sailors actually call Code-0's assymmetric spinnakers or just plain spinnakers (75%-95% mid girth measurement) and the Booth sail is actually a Genoa.
Other names fro these sails are : reachers, hooters, screachers, furling spis and some others I have forgotten.
Wouter
I call my spinnaker
GET IN THE DAMN SNUFFER YOU POC
!
Then i throuw my harness at the tramp. spout out more profanities, and then i crawl out on the bow and untangle the spagatti from all over.
I had to try every trick in the book (soak in holmenkol, lube all poles, release the tack 1', dump the travler, head almost dead down wind... buy her flowers), but on sunday, the 2 times i snuffed it behaved much better and i was happier (and curesed much less)
Oh yea, about the Doyle info.. that was from their site and i dont think it was directed to catamaran sails.. don't know if it should matter.. but thought it was interesting data.
Dan, the point is not that one configuration is more equal than other, but that the two very different configurations (essentialy two different rigs!) in the same fleet provide a big disequality in equipment. This certainly is not the initial idea about fleet racing in the olympics. Will the IOC like that
added dimension
?
I get your point and I suspect you’re right that the IOC will not like this development.
I could not have said that better.
Thanks.
Dan, the point is not that one configuration is more equal than other, but that the two very different configurations (essentialy two different rigs!) in the same fleet provide a big disequality in equipment. This certainly is not the initial idea about fleet racing in the olympics. Will the IOC like that
added dimension
?
I get your point and I suspect you’re right that the IOC will not like this development.
What's going to happen, throw the T's out of the next games?
Oh, that already happened! <img src=
alt=
/>
From Charlie's blog...
Qingdao, China - August 13, 2008 - The first race day for the Tornado Class in the Olympic Games is almost upon us. Tomorrow we sail a practice race and then on Friday we line up on Course A, the inshore race course right off the harbour breakwater and spectator grandstand, for the start of Race One. Two races are scheduled.
For everyone who wants to see Tornado Racing on television, the races on Friday will be your only opportunity before the Medal Race at the end of the series. NBC-TV will feature our racing live in a two-hour web-TV segment between 1:00 am and 3:00 am Eastern on Friday morning at http:/
We completed our boat and sail measurements over the last couple of days, including the successful measuring in of our radical Chupacabra Code Zero gennaker. With the sail measured in and officially accepted, the only remaining decision was whether to employ it or stick with a standard gennaker during the series. We can’t have both. It was a tough and risky call. We know the sail will power us up in really light conditions going to windward, but in any breeze over 11 knots we’ll only be able to use it downwind and we’ll risk being outgunned by boats with standard gennakers. After carefully weighing the odds, we decided to press ahead and use it.
This versatile undersized gennaker which allows us to power to windward through a chop in really light airs has been considered by several teams since our development work became public about five weeks ago. We know for sure that our Dutch training partners Mitch Booth and Pim Nieuwenhuis have elected to go with a similar sail. We don’t know about others.
The sail has attracted a great deal of media attention and even questions about its legality. Everyone has an opinion but the simple truth is we have tweaked our sails for light air. In the Tornado Class every team has worked exceptionally hard to gain an edge and optimize every facet of their boat, rig and sails. Everyone has made their own choices on sail materials and special sail designs and shapes for the expected conditions. We did the same as everyone else, except that we designed and built a smaller sail that would be more adaptable in the four to eight knot wind range that we expect to predominate in the coming days.
Read more at Johnny and Charlie's blog at www.t-squaredracing.com
Get 'em, boys. <img src=
alt=
/>
So only John/Charlie and Mitch/Pim went for the Code 0.
Let's wait and see how it will perform in the light and medium conditions (the forecast for the first two races is 15-20 knots). There is a general consensus that it may be an handicap in 11 to 18 knots, but over it may be again competitive.
This is an excerpt from today The Dailysail:
QUOTE
The forecast is critical to the call, with much fresher winds expected at the weekend. One Chinese forecast predicted 20 knots on Saturday and, accurate or not, this could still validate the Code 0 choice. Opinions differ about the gennaker’s precise optimum operating range, but 5-11 knots upwind seems to be the consensus. After that the Code 0 is short of grunt downwind, until the wind increases to the late teens when the small 18sqm gennaker boats can sail as fast as Tornadoes carrying conventional full-sized 25sqm spinnakers.
UNQUOTE
I still believe the conventional assymmetric will point lower in 18+ winds then the Code-0. So same speed maybe but at a higher angle. By definition almost the code-0 will have a rather flat entry (luff of the sail) and that will require the angle of attackt to be smaller then with a conventional spinnaker where the luff is significantly more rounded.
I have yet to experience being overpowered under spinnaker to such an extent that I had to flog the conventional speed because I couldn't steer any lower. So I dont think the smaller size of the code-0 is any advantage here. In theory the Code-0 can sustain higher downwind speeds because it won't collapse till a much higher apparent windspeed angle but I'm not at all convinced that the associated water surface condition will ever allow these speeds barring really unique situations with really flat water and very strong winds.
Of course I can be totally wrong but I really do see the Code-0 as step closed to a reaching sail then the assymmetric spinnaker. That means it has all the disadvantages that come with it as well, most notibly : less pointing upwind and less pointing downwind. In all conditions the old rig was nicely powered up the code-0 will be at a disadvantages and this includes 18+ wind in my opinion.
So now that my cards are on the table, lets see if reality strokes with the models ! Let the racing begin.
Wouter
Whow! What a gamble they are doing. Talk about throwing the dice..
US measured in 2 code zero's...... Talk about shutting down your options.
They will either be heros or zeros come next week.
Does this link work from abroad?: http:/
(MS SilverLight required, better use IE).
Here's where the T's racing will be live tommorow morning (7:00 overhere).
2> U bevindt zich buiten Nederland
Steve - according to Charlie's blog, they measured in one of each, not two zeros.
We completed our boat and sail measurements over the last couple of days, including the successful measuring in of our radical Chupacabra Code Zero gennaker. With the sail measured in and officially accepted, the only remaining decision was whether to employ it or stick with a standard gennaker during the series. We can’t have both.
Gleaned from TA's post over on SA dinghy forum:
But while the flat sail/full sail discussion works its way through the attention span of the sailing world, there is another controversy that unlikely to fade away.
USA sailor Charlie Ogletree, who chairs the technical committee of the Tornado class, has been slapped with the complaint that he
failed in his duty
to uphold the Objects of the class constitution.
If the complaint rested solely on showing up at the Olympic Regatta with a flat spinnaker, it would turn on whether Ogletree had a responsibility to keep the class informed of developments, and a responsibility to oppose that development.
But it appears that there may have been other developments pursued to get the maximum benefit from the spinnaker that were plainly outside the rules.
The USA crew modified the halyard guide fitting on the mast, and the modification provided significantly improved control of the positioning of the head of the spinnaker. This would be particularly useful upwind, The modification showed up in February at the World Championship... but has now been ruled illegal by ISAF.
The second modification was a clearly illegal 'dolphin striker' for the bowsprit. This was also disallowed by ISAF.
It appears that an 'upwind' re-rig was being developed... and it is difficult to see how anyone could claim that it was 'all within the class rules.
But while the flat sail/full sail discussion works its way through the attention span of the sailing world, there is another controversy that unlikely to fade away.
USA sailor Charlie Ogletree, who chairs the technical committee of the Tornado class, has been slapped with the complaint that he
failed in his duty
to uphold the Objects of the class constitution.
If the complaint rested solely on showing up at the Olympic Regatta with a flat spinnaker, it would turn on whether Ogletree had a responsibility to keep the class informed of developments, and a responsibility to oppose that development.
But it appears that there may have been other developments pursued to get the maximum benefit from the spinnaker that were plainly outside the rules.
The USA crew modified the halyard guide fitting on the mast, and the modification provided significantly improved control of the positioning of the head of the spinnaker. This would be particularly useful upwind, The modification showed up in February at the World Championship... but has now been ruled illegal by ISAF.
The second modification was a clearly illegal 'dolphin striker' for the bowsprit. This was also disallowed by ISAF.
It appears that an 'upwind' re-rig was being developed... and it is difficult to see how anyone could claim that it was 'all within the class rules.
Whew...I like the new Chupacabra...but I'm not a huge fan of it showing up at the Olympics...but still, that was frackin' harsh by an anonymous by-line at Tornado.org. At least they could sign their name to the same report posted that speaks in a derogatory fashion of
lightweight blogs
.
The code 0 doesn't seems to perform, it was maybe just to confuse the other sailors.
From ISAF website
Spain’s two-time World Champions ECHAVARRI and PAZ hold a four point overall lead after their win in race 3 and a sixth place finish in race 2. Following the day’s second race in very light 5 knots winds, ECHAVARRI added his view on the controversy that has been surrounding the Code 0 sails, designed especially for light wind conditions that are being used by some teams. “During race 3 there was very light wind – the perfect conditions for Code 0 boats. However, the Code 0 boats didn’t perform very well. Looking back at the whole scenario before the competition with the selection between Code 0 gennaker and standard spinnaker, we are glad that we made the right choice,” ECHAVARRI said.
/hakan
Anybody have a linky to the preliminary Olympic Tornado results ?
Want to see how the code-0 is doing.
Wouter
Wouter
No you dont. <img src=
alt=
/>
Saw the 470 ladies medal race live on TV this morning, great to see the Dutch team take the silver.
As an experiment it would have been better to see more then one crew try to code-0 (hooter) in this field. However, the results by team USA so far (only one with code-0 and 2nd in 2004 olympics) is far from promising.
Race 1 : 9 knots average winds placing 14th out of 15 competitors ; 7min:58sec behind winners
Race 2 : 7 knots average winds placing 12th ; 11:12 behind winners
Race 3 : 5 knots average winds placing 7th ; 2:49 behind winners
Race 4 : 20 knots average winds placing 11th ; 4:04 behind winners
Race 5 : 11 knots average (decreasing 13->8) winds placing 12th ; 2:58 behind winners
Race 6 : 8 knots average winds placing 14th ; 2:20 behind winners
Race 7 : 8 knots average winds placing 15th ; 4:04 behind winners
They are now 14th overall out of 15 competitors with only 1 regatta point ahead of the last place holder China whose team has already scored a OCS and a DNF ! At 70 points overall the US team with the Code-0 is 50 points behind the scoreboard leaders (1st and 2nd) who are tied in points. Even the number 10 in the listing is 22 regatta points ahead.
This is a pretty bad result for the 2004 Olympic silver medalists. With only 3 more races to go (max 45 point in even when DNS) they are off the podium for sure and will not even be able to break into to the top 10 places. The latter assuming the French team at 10th overall keeps doing what is has scored so far leading to an end score after 10 races of 69 where the US team already has 70 points and can never get below 73 even when scoring 3 bullets in the remaining races.
Either the crew was unlucky with some sickness or the Code-0 is one big dud. The conditions at Qingdoa seem to be similar to Athenes in 2004 where this team scored a silver medal.
For details like mark rounding times etc see :
http:/
Wouter
Actually, I think the results are a mixed bag of issues.
firstly, no team would attempt using a new technique or piece of equipement in an Olympic regatta without first knowing it would provide an advantage. Team USA, NED and PUR were all testing this sail as partners for over 1 year and were convinced in it's potential.
However, it seems to have a tight performance range and the added benefit in the relatively shorter races seems marginal.
Finally, the venue has lived up to expectations...not only light winds, but highly variable pressures/directions. Just look at the wide swings in the fleet mark roundings in most of the races.
I agree it appears the code zero Chupacabra has not workout for team USA, but I also don't think this regatta is a satifactory test of it.
![[Linked Image]](http://tornado.org/uploads/photos/243m.jpg)
Either the crew was unlucky with some sickness or the Code-0 is one big dud. The conditions at Qingdoa seem to be similar to Athenes in 2004 where this team scored a silver medal.
For details like mark rounding times etc see :
http:/
Wouter